Skin Applications - where do we go from here?
Wednesday, October 31, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Does anyone get the impression that customization SOFTWARE (not talking about skinning itself) is starting to slow down in terms of development? Sure, individual programs continue to move forward with new versions (WindowBlinds, Hoverdesk, DesktopX, Litestep, etc.) but we haven't seen a lot of NEW skinnable programs recently it seems (well there's ObjectBar and CursorEX) but generally speaking, things like Chroma and KJFoL and other things that were really innovative at the time have gone by the wayside.
Where do you think things will go to next? One thing I can tell you, and I hope jorge from Winstep is reading this as he knows what i"m talking about intimately, it is going to be MUCH harder for future progrmas to get as widespread as the current generation. That's because the main download sites are now owned by a single source and they're trying to find ways to generate revenue to cover their expenses (the .com boom is over for sure) and one way they're looking at doing it is charging for listings (much like Yahoo does now) as well as for highlighting and such. So it would be much harder for a new Stardock or new Winstep to get its start.
But where do you think things should go from here? What would you like to see next?
Where do you think things will go to next? One thing I can tell you, and I hope jorge from Winstep is reading this as he knows what i"m talking about intimately, it is going to be MUCH harder for future progrmas to get as widespread as the current generation. That's because the main download sites are now owned by a single source and they're trying to find ways to generate revenue to cover their expenses (the .com boom is over for sure) and one way they're looking at doing it is charging for listings (much like Yahoo does now) as well as for highlighting and such. So it would be much harder for a new Stardock or new Winstep to get its start.
But where do you think things should go from here? What would you like to see next?
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paxx
Reply #22 Friday, November 2, 2001 10:08 AM
Reply #22 Friday, November 2, 2001 10:08 AM
OK, got it. It's called Win3D.
This is their website: http://www.clockwise3d.com
They have a shockwave movie that gives a pretty good idea on what it is.
This is their website: http://www.clockwise3d.com
They have a shockwave movie that gives a pretty good idea on what it is.
weaponzero
Reply #24 Friday, November 2, 2001 1:47 PM
Reply #24 Friday, November 2, 2001 1:47 PM
adobe atmosphere? :/
oh yea and "From Stardock, a color manager like 3DColorChanger that provides interactive preview and application of Windows Colors."
theres already a fantastic program, called "Color Control" that does this. its on dowload.com for sure
and all i really want to see from skinning is alpha-transparency. i HATE scary ragged edges
oh yea and "From Stardock, a color manager like 3DColorChanger that provides interactive preview and application of Windows Colors."
theres already a fantastic program, called "Color Control" that does this. its on dowload.com for sure
and all i really want to see from skinning is alpha-transparency. i HATE scary ragged edges
skinner7892
Reply #25 Friday, November 2, 2001 2:56 PM
Reply #25 Friday, November 2, 2001 2:56 PM
Thanks Paxx for the link. I tried the utility and indeed found it counter-productive since it requires you to spin around constantly to get items you want not to mention it's not intuitive very much.
My idea though was to be able to custmize your environment (as opposed to Win3D which forces you to get its "world"), pretty much like we all customize our desktop themes, icons placement, and such. But Win3D shows for sure that such a project would require a deep thinking because it may have adverse effect on productivity.
Thanks again paxx for the link
My idea though was to be able to custmize your environment (as opposed to Win3D which forces you to get its "world"), pretty much like we all customize our desktop themes, icons placement, and such. But Win3D shows for sure that such a project would require a deep thinking because it may have adverse effect on productivity.
Thanks again paxx for the link
XX
Reply #26 Friday, November 2, 2001 6:16 PM
Reply #26 Friday, November 2, 2001 6:16 PM
hmm one thing id like to have is animated design on desktop... dermels were very nice but dont work with xp very well.
for example would be a ( for example ) a very nice view of island with water animating and crashing upon island and etc. even sometimes storms. ( it could connect to weather site to get data on current weather )
for example would be a ( for example ) a very nice view of island with water animating and crashing upon island and etc. even sometimes storms. ( it could connect to weather site to get data on current weather
)
craeonics
Reply #27 Friday, November 2, 2001 6:58 PM
Reply #27 Friday, November 2, 2001 6:58 PM
In the end, I want full control over everything. With the current software, I can't even control the look of things, so there is a long long way to go.
And weaponzero has a point about alpha.
And weaponzero has a point about alpha.
paxx
Reply #28 Friday, November 2, 2001 7:37 PM
Reply #28 Friday, November 2, 2001 7:37 PM
About alpha support in WB (read: antialiased edges), I asked about it to Brad some little time ago, since XP now supports alpha. His answer was that although it would be cool, it's not about to happen until more people use XP, and that computers get more powerful. Apparently it would suck a lot of juice.
craeonics
Reply #29 Friday, November 2, 2001 7:57 PM
Reply #29 Friday, November 2, 2001 7:57 PM
You could take it further than just antialiasing edges and just use .pngs for total opacity control. Ah, that would be cool
Jafo
Reply #30 Saturday, November 3, 2001 12:08 AM
Reply #30 Saturday, November 3, 2001 12:08 AM
Well...I want money for nothing and my chicks for free...
misterME
Reply #31 Saturday, November 3, 2001 4:14 AM
Reply #31 Saturday, November 3, 2001 4:14 AM
Hehe, Jafo.
But seriously, the former is far more likely than the latter...
But seriously, the former is far more likely than the latter...
MadIce
Reply #32 Saturday, November 3, 2001 5:32 AM
Reply #32 Saturday, November 3, 2001 5:32 AM
paxx: I remember some Dutch initialive for a 3D add-on to Windows, much like Win3D but based upon Open/GL. Can't remember its name. Some company that makes professional audio studio equipment is financing the project, just because they love to do it.
MadIce
Reply #33 Saturday, November 3, 2001 7:18 AM
Reply #33 Saturday, November 3, 2001 7:18 AM
A lot of people like it when their user interface has an universal look. Although fun, suites like those of the Skindicate, take a lot of effort to make. End users still have to worry about what skin is supported by what skinnable app. Convergence is a good thing for them, because it makes all those different systems easier to manage. Still we end up with lots of identical graphics not being shared by such apps. Skinnable apps are here because there was no such thing like system wide skinning for Windows at the time. Skinnable apps will probably disappear to make way for system wide skinning and Convergence may be a step to make people realize that.
At the moment WB rules the system wide skinning market, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS is planning something similar to X-Windows. An API (an interface used by software developers) in this direction is slowly beginning to emerge. WXP has its new theming system. I think MS protected its theming system to look what the general public thinks about it. If the public likes it, MS will expand it and either open it up or jump on the band wagon themselves (more likely). Let's hope that this doesn't end up like Kaleidoscope not running on OS/X. That could be another alternative if the public doesn't like this level of customizing.
Projects like LS, DX, NS and HD will move towards ease of use. We are already seeing the results of that. They will be more popular than WB, because WB has less impact on the way we work. These days programmers of customization software are dreaming up what the user interface should look like. The big companies already have started to use user interface and ergonomic specialists. Stardock and other companies working in their field can do this in another way because they have an active user community that gives them feedback and they are listining to it. Freeware and open source projects are starting to listen to their users too. Today's skinners have the difficult task to find the balance between pure art and providing a good interface.
I think applications will move more and more towards sharing data and share the functionality to access and edit that data. Standards like COM and OpenDoc will be more important in the future. Those standards are already being used for some time now and more developers are beginning to realize its power. This will give customization software and users a lot of new options. Eye candy will be combined with functionality for day to day live.
Hardware will have a big influence too. Today we worry about that stretching a bitmap is too slow. In a few years nobody will notice the difference. Hardware accelerated alpha-blending will be common soon. 3D will arrive at the desktop sooner or later. Extremely fast processors and huge amounts of fast memory may make all the overhead unimportant.
Skinning in the future will be a lot of fun for us. It will become a day to day reality for the general public. Maybe some us can even make a living doing skinning with initialives like PiXtudio.
At the moment WB rules the system wide skinning market, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS is planning something similar to X-Windows. An API (an interface used by software developers) in this direction is slowly beginning to emerge. WXP has its new theming system. I think MS protected its theming system to look what the general public thinks about it. If the public likes it, MS will expand it and either open it up or jump on the band wagon themselves (more likely). Let's hope that this doesn't end up like Kaleidoscope not running on OS/X. That could be another alternative if the public doesn't like this level of customizing.
Projects like LS, DX, NS and HD will move towards ease of use. We are already seeing the results of that. They will be more popular than WB, because WB has less impact on the way we work. These days programmers of customization software are dreaming up what the user interface should look like. The big companies already have started to use user interface and ergonomic specialists. Stardock and other companies working in their field can do this in another way because they have an active user community that gives them feedback and they are listining to it. Freeware and open source projects are starting to listen to their users too. Today's skinners have the difficult task to find the balance between pure art and providing a good interface.
I think applications will move more and more towards sharing data and share the functionality to access and edit that data. Standards like COM and OpenDoc will be more important in the future. Those standards are already being used for some time now and more developers are beginning to realize its power. This will give customization software and users a lot of new options. Eye candy will be combined with functionality for day to day live.
Hardware will have a big influence too. Today we worry about that stretching a bitmap is too slow. In a few years nobody will notice the difference. Hardware accelerated alpha-blending will be common soon. 3D will arrive at the desktop sooner or later. Extremely fast processors and huge amounts of fast memory may make all the overhead unimportant.
Skinning in the future will be a lot of fun for us. It will become a day to day reality for the general public. Maybe some us can even make a living doing skinning with initialives like PiXtudio.
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Reply #21 Friday, November 2, 2001 9:54 AM
feed me