No more personal attacks
Tuesday, October 23, 2001 by paxx | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
OK, I just read Brad's novel of the night. All right, I'm all for it. No more personal attacks accepted here? Fine. But let it be fair, no more personal attack on anyone, period. That meens no more personal attack on l0c, the warez kids, or anyone. We are agreeing that we shall argue and debate on the ideas, but never on the person.
Agreed? Shall we shake on it?
Agreed? Shall we shake on it?
XX
Reply #5 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:59 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:59 AM
what? i want to flame flame flame!!
nothing is better than flaming!!
heh jk. yeah i agree on that.
nothing is better than flaming!!
heh jk. yeah i agree on that.
MadIce
Reply #6 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:15 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:15 AM
Just when I was planning a good one.
Well, OK.
How about this one: I have reserved a channel on IRC for anyone that wants to make a personal attack. So, if anyone is interested join #PersonalAttack on irc.stardock.com. There is one condition, though. Nobody is allowed to join you in that channel.
Well, OK.
How about this one: I have reserved a channel on IRC for anyone that wants to make a personal attack. So, if anyone is interested join #PersonalAttack on irc.stardock.com. There is one condition, though. Nobody is allowed to join you in that channel.
Orion
Reply #7 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:03 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:03 AM
Even though Elf's first post was a joke...that's what my thoughts are
Cut the peace crap.
Cut the peace crap.
craeonics
Reply #8 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:32 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 8:32 AM
I am way beyond this. Now where's that novel?
paxx
Reply #9 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:30 AM
Reply #9 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 10:30 AM
Orion, I don't quite understand... What's wrong with respecting people? I don't say cut the flames. Flames can be entertaining. I am just saying we should restrict the attacks to what is being said, without insulting who says it.
Example:
"You're a fascist" = personal insult
"Deleting posts is a fascist behavior" = statement expressing opinions regarding a particular behavior
or:
"You're just an stupid warez kid" = personal
"I think your ideas are childish and overly simplistic" = statement chalenging a person's opinions
No problem with opinions clashing, but attacking somebody personnaly serves no purpose, never brings any interesting debate, and always create useless tensions.
If you want war, not peace, i have no objection. But attack and challenge what is really pissing you off, not the person who expressed it.
Example:
"You're a fascist" = personal insult
"Deleting posts is a fascist behavior" = statement expressing opinions regarding a particular behavior
or:
"You're just an stupid warez kid" = personal
"I think your ideas are childish and overly simplistic" = statement chalenging a person's opinions
No problem with opinions clashing, but attacking somebody personnaly serves no purpose, never brings any interesting debate, and always create useless tensions.
If you want war, not peace, i have no objection. But attack and challenge what is really pissing you off, not the person who expressed it.
feline
Reply #10 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:42 AM
Reply #10 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:42 AM
piece, love, harmany and chocolate for all
GOT to support that!
GOT to support that!
misterME
Reply #11 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 PM
I'm with you on this one, paxx. Challenging ideas and mature debate are integral parts of any successful community. But such challenges/debates need to be kept to applying to the statements and opinions of people, and not insults hurled at the people themselves.
Anyway, just wanted to say you summed up my thoughts on this very well, and I agree fully.
Anyway, just wanted to say you summed up my thoughts on this very well, and I agree fully.
Orion
Reply #12 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:42 PM
I'm sorry, if I think you're an idiot, I'm going to tell you that you're and idiot. BTW, I'm not saying that at all. Call a spade a spade and end this st00pid political correctness.
Integer
Reply #13 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:02 PM
Reply #13 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:02 PM
OK - I think now the dust has settled a bit it's time for me to hold myself accountable.
I haven't been here since this site's formative days, and I don't know a lot of the regulars here, but I am still very active in the community and feel that I should air my views here in light of recent events at DA.
I was involved in the thread at DA, but did not involve myself in any personal attacks. I have never criticised Stardock nor any Stardock software, I do not use their programs so I am in no position to do so. My only criticism is of Brads marketing tactics, and his tendency to react badly to any criticism of him/Stardock. If you think I have been unfair, let me know and I will address it. I don't see that there is any sort of vendetta against Brad, and I don't think there should be. He was just the victim of bad timing - with a few unfortunate events all happening at the same time
The threads I have read about Brad being a good guy are, in my view, full of good intention, but redundant. No-one has said he doesn't love his kids, treat his employees with respect or help people out on these boards, and if they did, I would not condone them, as these are things I know nothing about, and would have no place here anyway. These threads only serve to perpetuate this cirus.
As far as the loc/brad thing goes, the only explanation i can offer is that the term "Nazi" has become a slang term for anyone who acts like a dictator, this is unfortunate, but the rights and wrongs of this are another debate entirely. The way I see it, a lot of the shocked reactions are because of the recipient of the insult, not the actual insult itself. I do not agree with it in any way, and I don't think loc did himself any favours by using it, but if you look elsewhere on this board, you will see a comment in just as bad taste as this, but only one person reacted to it, and the thread died.
The reason I chose this thread to respond was because it was already at the top, and I didn't want to dig up any of the rubbish that is working it's way down the board, and also because of something in the initial post. Paxx wrote "Let it be fair, no more personal attacks on anyone, period". When I read this I thought of the thread that contains the line "4 word summary - loc is a wanker". This was appluaded by the very people who were castigating loc for his personal attack. Where is the logic? Surely we haven't stooped to the "eye for an eye" mentality? I'd like to think not. These debates are not pointless flame wars, but a sign of a community that is growing, and like anything , experiencing growing pains. These things are vital to prevent us stagnating.
I congratulate Brad on stepping back from this and getting some fresh air. It's perhaps something you could consider doing more often. I'm not saying this vidictively, it's simply my personal view. You are free to tell me to piss off and mind my own business - it's your site
Please note - all my thoughts above are simply observations, and I am not trying to perpetuate the nonsence that has been unravelling not just here, but on all the skinning sites. If you have an issue with anything I have said, here or elsewhere, please respond by e-mail. Not because I am afraid of a good debate, but the community really doesn't need it at the moment.
I realise that this post has developed into one of those long winded ones that people tend to skip through and only read the last line, so I'll make the last line the most important :-
Integer goes back to skinning.
I haven't been here since this site's formative days, and I don't know a lot of the regulars here, but I am still very active in the community and feel that I should air my views here in light of recent events at DA.
I was involved in the thread at DA, but did not involve myself in any personal attacks. I have never criticised Stardock nor any Stardock software, I do not use their programs so I am in no position to do so. My only criticism is of Brads marketing tactics, and his tendency to react badly to any criticism of him/Stardock. If you think I have been unfair, let me know and I will address it. I don't see that there is any sort of vendetta against Brad, and I don't think there should be. He was just the victim of bad timing - with a few unfortunate events all happening at the same time
The threads I have read about Brad being a good guy are, in my view, full of good intention, but redundant. No-one has said he doesn't love his kids, treat his employees with respect or help people out on these boards, and if they did, I would not condone them, as these are things I know nothing about, and would have no place here anyway. These threads only serve to perpetuate this cirus.
As far as the loc/brad thing goes, the only explanation i can offer is that the term "Nazi" has become a slang term for anyone who acts like a dictator, this is unfortunate, but the rights and wrongs of this are another debate entirely. The way I see it, a lot of the shocked reactions are because of the recipient of the insult, not the actual insult itself. I do not agree with it in any way, and I don't think loc did himself any favours by using it, but if you look elsewhere on this board, you will see a comment in just as bad taste as this, but only one person reacted to it, and the thread died.
The reason I chose this thread to respond was because it was already at the top, and I didn't want to dig up any of the rubbish that is working it's way down the board, and also because of something in the initial post. Paxx wrote "Let it be fair, no more personal attacks on anyone, period". When I read this I thought of the thread that contains the line "4 word summary - loc is a wanker". This was appluaded by the very people who were castigating loc for his personal attack. Where is the logic? Surely we haven't stooped to the "eye for an eye" mentality? I'd like to think not. These debates are not pointless flame wars, but a sign of a community that is growing, and like anything , experiencing growing pains. These things are vital to prevent us stagnating.
I congratulate Brad on stepping back from this and getting some fresh air. It's perhaps something you could consider doing more often. I'm not saying this vidictively, it's simply my personal view. You are free to tell me to piss off and mind my own business - it's your site
Please note - all my thoughts above are simply observations, and I am not trying to perpetuate the nonsence that has been unravelling not just here, but on all the skinning sites. If you have an issue with anything I have said, here or elsewhere, please respond by e-mail. Not because I am afraid of a good debate, but the community really doesn't need it at the moment.
I realise that this post has developed into one of those long winded ones that people tend to skip through and only read the last line, so I'll make the last line the most important :-
Integer goes back to skinning.
JavaBrain
Reply #14 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:22 PM
Reply #14 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:22 PM
Orion, it's not polital correctness, it's human decency. I wouldn't personally attack somebody I see in person, why would I personally attack somebody on this board. Listen to what Paxx said, there is a difference between opinions and personal attacks. It's also different saying:
I think JavaBrain drinks too much coffee
versus
JavaBrain smells like cheese
See, the first one is an opinion, the second is a personal attack (unless, of course, I really do smell like cheese).
I think JavaBrain drinks too much coffee
versus
JavaBrain smells like cheese
See, the first one is an opinion, the second is a personal attack (unless, of course, I really do smell like cheese).
misterME
Reply #15 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:54 PM
Reply #15 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:54 PM
mmm...munster
(a little halloween humor
)
Anyway, I agree with Integer, and paxx. The personal attacks need to stop from all sides. I don't know who posted the "I0c is a Wanker" thread (I didn't see it on the board), but that's just as bad as I0c's original post about Brad. Worse, perhaps, if it was written by someone who was telling people how wrong it is to personally attack another member of the community, because then it *does* become hypocrisy.
As has been said over and over, feel free to disagree, and to air those disagreements here if it pertains to skinning. Heh, that's one of the purposes of this board. But *any* personal attacks, on *anyone*, by *anyone*, should not be welcome or tolerated here. Period.
My $12.02 (gotta love inflation)
(a little halloween humor
)Anyway, I agree with Integer, and paxx. The personal attacks need to stop from all sides. I don't know who posted the "I0c is a Wanker" thread (I didn't see it on the board), but that's just as bad as I0c's original post about Brad. Worse, perhaps, if it was written by someone who was telling people how wrong it is to personally attack another member of the community, because then it *does* become hypocrisy.
As has been said over and over, feel free to disagree, and to air those disagreements here if it pertains to skinning. Heh, that's one of the purposes of this board. But *any* personal attacks, on *anyone*, by *anyone*, should not be welcome or tolerated here. Period.
My $12.02 (gotta love inflation)
BlazerRW
Reply #16 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:08 PM
Reply #16 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:08 PM
i have to agree with paxx.Im only 19 years old,not as old as most members, and i've never seen so many people older than me argue like children.It's time for people to grow up and stop acting childish
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Reply #1 Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:07 AM