The state of the community

Tuesday, October 23, 2001 by gorman | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

Over the past few days I've heard some remarks and seen some actions taken which have deeply worried me. Over these days I have seen the community which I care so much about damaged greatly due to fighting and anger within it. From this, I have seen emotions pouring out from every side of every disagreement, every message board thread, and in general, every site. I have seen people from both sides of every argument rush to the defense, and in many cases offense, of their argument. In general, I have seen more separation in this community over the past 48 hours then I have seen in months, maybe longer. Egos have clashed, emotions have raged, and the leaders of the websites in our community have been openly attacked for various reasons. There is no way anyone in this community who reads these boards has gone unaffected by this, I know that for a fact.

I haven't been very vocal the past few months, but my support and love for this community have continued to grow every second. With this in mind, you can imagine how an event like this which is tearing our community apart affects me. I'm never one to jump to a conclusion or pick a side; I always look at an overview of a problem and work to find a solution. After holding off on commenting on any thread over the past few days, I felt I must step forward and do everything in my power to pull things back together.

In any community, or even just any group of people, there are always going to be conflictions between various people. That’s just the way of the world; nothing is going to keep problems from occurring like this every now and again. However, what can be done is to work in a resolute way in order to solve the problems instead of making them worse. Arguing your side of the problem won't help anything, I think we've all seen this over the past few days. The only way to really solve any problem is to drop your ego & pride for a few minutes and look at the other side of the argument in order to really understand where the other person is coming from. Many times just by taking a clear look at the other side's feelings on the issue you can come to a resolution. Other times the best way to get past a problem or confliction is just to be the mature one and drop the argument. If you can gather the strength to say “you know what, let us forget about who is right or wrong here, let’s just move on for the good of the community”, you will be able to overcome many disagreements. Sure, you won't win any arguments, but you'll gain more respect by handling your problems in this fashion.

Those who I respect most are the ones who constantly prove themselves to be level-headed, and I honestly believe that those running any site in our great community will not get very far without this skill. This also applies to any member of the community, as you will clearly make a better image of yourself in people's mind by always being diplomatic. All of this said, I urge everyone to look past the arguments at hand, and work to find a solution for them rather then continuing to argue. As I said earlier, sometimes the best way to solve things is to really understand the other person's side rather then trying to play offense. Always remember, even though you might not agree with what the other person has to say, they always have reasoning in their head for getting mad. The trick is, figure out why, and help them solve the problem.

I truly hope that over the next 48 hours things will begin to turn around and everyone involved will begin to regain respect from those they had differences with. I honestly believe everyone in this community is a good person, and I think we can work together to heal the community. Our community needs to continue to grow and get stronger, and in order to do that, we really need everyone's support. Please, let us work together to make this happen. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
David Gorman
First Previous Page 2 of 3 Next Last
MadIce
Reply #21 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:33 PM
Ah. So, was it in "the heat of the battle", l0c? Didn't you mean calling Bard a nazi? Or are we now talking about the cause of the conflict? I hear a new one: "There is no community". So were are not here? Let's find another illusion to talk about so we all forget how aggressive that nazi remark actually was?
Doreen
Reply #22 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:36 PM
come on MadIce you know it was a poor choice of words in a heated moment...
MadIce
Reply #23 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:40 PM
"Poor choise of words"? I didn't hear him say that. And you know and I know that he never will.
l0c
Reply #24 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:41 PM
Oh no, without a doubt Brad is a Nazi (Soup Nazi not Hitler). BTW, who are you? Yeah I thought so. Well back to my cave, if I do create an app it sure wont be skinnable. What do I need skins for anyway when Windows is now skinnable, right Brad? Or don't wanna admit it cuz you know you're screwed if ya do. Fuck ya all except like 5-10 of ya! And if any of you need aa skinnable app just contact me and I will make it just for you.
Doreen
Reply #25 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:45 PM
Soup Nazi? wazzat? nevermind....

oh well loc just take some time for a break and relax

I've heard time heals all things but that could be a lie
paxx
Reply #26 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:47 PM
Hehehe! l0c, take a few days, cool off, let the dust settle down. Right now there is so much dust in the air everywhere nobody can see clearly.
Take some time off, program a cool app, and we'll see you then, OK?
MadIce
Reply #27 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:52 PM
That step was to be expected.
Istari
Reply #28 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:57 PM
l0c shows his class (or in this case lack there of) to the end. And given Brad wrote an article on the various methods XP is skinnable, it would seem you remain out of touch. Truly sad.
DavidK
Reply #29 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:00 PM
l0c is apparently letting us know that he is a god and we are not worthy of his grace. So be it. If there's really only 5-10 members of the community that can bask in your glory, it's gonna be easy to afford the bandwidth for your new site eh?

I'm really dissapointed l0c... you've become totally childish.
kenray
Reply #30 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:21 PM
feline,

there are lots of people in the community who are goodhearted, & who express that.
you are right in that, some of what you are seeing presently has roots that go way back (even unto the late '90's)

don't sweat it, and don't let it taint your experience.

that these things have happened in public is a shame. but it's too late to do anything about that.

enjoy skinning, enjoy the work of your peers, and enjoy interacting with this community.

there are so many more positives than negatives.
treetog
Reply #31 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:11 PM
Getting back to this original thread, my respects to you, Gorman.
oinky
Reply #32 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:24 PM
Allright everyone, back to the top. Read Gorman's post again. If you honestly feel like fighting after that you can be my guest.

I, however, am going off to enjoy myself while making another skin.
kenray
Reply #33 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:33 PM
bless you oinky
JavaBrain
Reply #34 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:43 PM
I'd like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love,


Grow apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves.


I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony,


I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company.

Ah, they had it right in '71! (Too bad I wasn't born yet!) BTW, I'm not being sarcastic, I've always loved the message of that song (and I don't mean the "buy more Coke" message)....
JayG
Reply #35 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:44 PM
here's my take as a nobody. Brad bashing has become so accepted and so common that l0c thought he could actually make a "Brad's a Nazi" post and people wouldn't condemn him for it. the civilized people of our little community have finally gotten fed up and said in a loud voice "ENOUGH!". l0c and other meglomaniacs are just seeing the backlash of this. they were the straw that broke the camels back.
Istari
Reply #36 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:14 PM
Shoggot - I didn't say anyone should leave. I said that these kinds of conflicts will end when the people who start them stop creating them.

But I do agree with ya about the undercurrent of conflict between the freeware advocates and the non-freeware advocates. I use whatever is the best that I can afford. I don't care if it's "free" or not. There is nothing noble about freeware over commercial. Freeware doesn't create jobs or put food on people's tables.
shoggot
Reply #37 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:22 PM
there's something noble in altruism, of which sharing your software freely is a form.

you're correct that it does not put food in the mouths of the devs, or pay for webhosting; if it did, it wouldn't be altruistic, would it?
Istari
Reply #38 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:26 PM
Nothing is pure altruism though. The 545 crew are definite glory hounds. That's the payment they want. Nothing wrong with that. But companies can do altruistic things too. I've seen WC's balance sheet. There's no ongoing form of altruism in this community of greater expense than this site and deviantart.

This should be its own thread, shog. It would be a good discussion.
Jafo
Reply #39 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 6:33 PM
As champion of the 'off topic' post...all I can say is...
I want a tee-shirt with the words....
"I survived the Shell Wars"

[I remember them well]...
migellito
Reply #40 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 6:41 PM
gorman - good to see you :]

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