Warez d00dz
Sunday, October 21, 2001 by koop | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This is an update to Frogboy's earlier post. I am the one that tried to shut down the warez site. Since the web master of the site posted my Stardock email address and websites, there have been several attacks. I have received confirmation of my subscription to several porno sites (thank you) and several virus infected emails (no, thank you.) For those who know me, the decision to take action against the warez site was taken with grave reservations.
I am a free speech advocate in the extreme ( a perfect foil to Frogboy's ethical conservatism) and a supporter of civil liberties. I think software should be free. An unusual attitude for the sales person of a software company? Not really. I also think food, my childrens' education, DVD's and a new Volvo should be free. I just can't get everyone to agree with me.
Having said that, the Warez site posted a link to the full version of our software. They posted an article about it on their front page. I emailed them, told them to take it down and offered to let them post a shareware version instead. 24 hours passed. My blood pressure rose. I contacted their ISP, who blew the whole thing off. Now the site contacted me, told me the link was taken down. Then they posted another link on their message board, telling their community that they would not be stopped. Well, for a week we played games. Ultimately, I did what I had to do.
I learned two lessons this week. The first is that we live in a time that permits small crimes everyday. As I said to a one of the people I met on the warez scene this week, he would follow someone a mile to return their wallet, but sees nothing wrong with stealing software. This isn't just about the software. ISP's have to turn a blind eye to these sites. I am not kidding, I had three virii mailed to me, threats sent to me, etc. Come on guys, you know that this is wrong. When we (yes all of us) do little things wrong many times a day, is it any wonder that big wrong things happen?
The second thing I learned is about community. These warez d00dz (am I so old that I am the only one to remember that phrase?) found a community on that site. They were prepared to defend their home. I hope that they keep that enthusiasm of youth, but transfer it to a more socially acceptable community- like skinning.
Peace, y'all.
I am a free speech advocate in the extreme ( a perfect foil to Frogboy's ethical conservatism) and a supporter of civil liberties. I think software should be free. An unusual attitude for the sales person of a software company? Not really. I also think food, my childrens' education, DVD's and a new Volvo should be free. I just can't get everyone to agree with me.
Having said that, the Warez site posted a link to the full version of our software. They posted an article about it on their front page. I emailed them, told them to take it down and offered to let them post a shareware version instead. 24 hours passed. My blood pressure rose. I contacted their ISP, who blew the whole thing off. Now the site contacted me, told me the link was taken down. Then they posted another link on their message board, telling their community that they would not be stopped. Well, for a week we played games. Ultimately, I did what I had to do.
I learned two lessons this week. The first is that we live in a time that permits small crimes everyday. As I said to a one of the people I met on the warez scene this week, he would follow someone a mile to return their wallet, but sees nothing wrong with stealing software. This isn't just about the software. ISP's have to turn a blind eye to these sites. I am not kidding, I had three virii mailed to me, threats sent to me, etc. Come on guys, you know that this is wrong. When we (yes all of us) do little things wrong many times a day, is it any wonder that big wrong things happen?
The second thing I learned is about community. These warez d00dz (am I so old that I am the only one to remember that phrase?) found a community on that site. They were prepared to defend their home. I hope that they keep that enthusiasm of youth, but transfer it to a more socially acceptable community- like skinning.
Peace, y'all.
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Reply #2 Sunday, October 21, 2001 3:50 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, October 21, 2001 3:50 PM
yeah. btw im not exactly "guiltless" bec i got serial for winzip ( before i changed to freeware version ) but i agree to last 2 posts, they just dont see corps as people at all. they see em as faceless being that oppress and try to make profit. ( btw thats same reason why people bash microsoft )
kith
Reply #4 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:19 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:19 PM
Well it might be time to step things up a bit. All I seem to be seeing is a estrogen laden response to this... Hope your not offended if I remove your flame!, It's OK to spam me just don't send me a virus!, PLEASE take down the link!, come on guys. You have to hammer these criminals into the ground. There is no difference between stealing from the grocery or over the web. These sites are so easy to find, simple web searches usually will get you to one in minutes. We could start a thread and post the links and whois to the sites. Maybe even a little competition, like whomever posts the most valid links wins a T-shirt!!! The Admins could look at the posts and take whatever action they felt necessary. You call this a community, I think it's time to form a neighborhood watch. 
Happy Hunting!
Happy Hunting!
Firestorm
Reply #5 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:24 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:24 PM
Nice idea, Bill
A good starting point might be astalavista.com
A good starting point might be astalavista.com
koop
Reply #6 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:35 PM
Reply #6 Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:35 PM
Bill, I appreciate the support. Let me tell you that all appropriate action was taken. The amazing thing is that supposedly legitimate groups ignore this kind of thing as a victimless crime.
If people in the community want to help, I will post the email addresses of the agencies responsible for policing this. Send them a couple of emails.
The good side of this is that I have been contacted by several developers who applauded my actions.
Bin Laden isn't going to stop me from living my life and neither are these adolescent terrorists.
If people in the community want to help, I will post the email addresses of the agencies responsible for policing this. Send them a couple of emails.
The good side of this is that I have been contacted by several developers who applauded my actions.
Bin Laden isn't going to stop me from living my life and neither are these adolescent terrorists.
tweakfreak
Reply #7 Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:56 PM
Reply #7 Sunday, October 21, 2001 6:56 PM
OK, so you're comparing the warez community to terrorists? and as adolescent no-less, I'm beginning to wonder about all this....You know, not all of out here are teenage idiots just looking to steal, I have never used a warez version more than a month before I went out and bought it if I really liked it, and trashed those I don't. So please don't Stereotype us.
Frogboy
Reply #8 Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:04 PM
Reply #8 Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:04 PM
Tweak freak - sending viruses to people on purpose is a form of terrorism. End of story.
craeonics
Reply #9 Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:08 PM
Reply #9 Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:08 PM
It seems like they see it more like an attempt to shut their spot down than a corporate move. I don't think it's all that different.
Okay, sending virii might prove me wrong.
Okay, sending virii might prove me wrong.
tweakfreak
Reply #10 Sunday, October 21, 2001 8:28 PM
Reply #10 Sunday, October 21, 2001 8:28 PM
Again, you're stereotyping us, those few sending out the virii do not encompass the whole. They are the scum of our community, those whose only purpose is to hurt. Yes they are terrorist, in a fassion, but please do not stereotype our entire community due to the actions of the few.
Elwin
Reply #11 Sunday, October 21, 2001 8:56 PM
Reply #11 Sunday, October 21, 2001 8:56 PM
"Their Paxx equivalent would have a sinister looking mustache."
I hope "our" Paxx doesn't have a mustache in real life - he might take offence...
I hope "our" Paxx doesn't have a mustache in real life - he might take offence...
Frogboy
Reply #12 Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:14 PM
Reply #12 Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:14 PM
I'm not stereotpying anyone. But I've had to delete more posts in the past 48 hours than I've had to do since this type went up.
It doesn't speak well of the warez people.
It doesn't speak well of the warez people.
Transmutate
Reply #13 Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:52 PM
Reply #13 Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:52 PM
Woah...I go away for the weekend and come back to find all this!!!
FB - do whatever it takes to protect our castle here.....raise the draw bridge and fill the moat with croc's
...you have my support in deleting posts and nasty users.
FB - do whatever it takes to protect our castle here.....raise the draw bridge and fill the moat with croc's
...you have my support in deleting posts and nasty users.
paxx
Reply #14 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:08 PM
Reply #14 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:08 PM
Hum... No I got no mustache.
OK, now I feel like I have to be honest here. Everything on my computer is NOT 100% legal. As a matter of fact, I have never bought anything from Microsoft. I bought pretty much everything else, but call me an idiot, but I refuse to put more money in the pocket of the richest man in the World, period. I don't go to warez sites, I just get my boss to buy a copy for work, and I make myself a copy for home. Illegal? Sure it is. Do I feel bad about it? Not for a second.
OK, let the flame begin.
Hey, I got to maintain my reputation of trouble maker. Seems I'm some sort of celebrity here. Hehehe!
OK, now I feel like I have to be honest here. Everything on my computer is NOT 100% legal. As a matter of fact, I have never bought anything from Microsoft. I bought pretty much everything else, but call me an idiot, but I refuse to put more money in the pocket of the richest man in the World, period. I don't go to warez sites, I just get my boss to buy a copy for work, and I make myself a copy for home. Illegal? Sure it is. Do I feel bad about it? Not for a second.
OK, let the flame begin.
Hey, I got to maintain my reputation of trouble maker. Seems I'm some sort of celebrity here. Hehehe!
John Hamp
Reply #15 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:12 PM
Reply #15 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:12 PM
Ya but if someone shut down the site you got warez from would you go on a crusade to hurt those that shut it down???
koop
Reply #16 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:50 PM
Reply #16 Sunday, October 21, 2001 10:50 PM
Thank you all for your support. Paxx, shocked as I am by your confession, glad to have you out there. We all need a little "Paxx" at this time.
They are adolescents, in temperment if not age.
Their community is gone. I feel bad about this, because they may not realize that there are other communities available. Like Wincustomize. Skinners are bound together by the process of creation, of art, not just the common bond of downloading (with maybe a little uploading.)
I wrote to Tweakfreak, what I said was private, but not all Warez kiddies are bad. The majority aren't. The challenge is to get the good guys out their to put the brakes on their hotheaded brethern. That is not a challenge face by the Warez community alone, but in every community.
I say again, thanks and peace.
They are adolescents, in temperment if not age.
Their community is gone. I feel bad about this, because they may not realize that there are other communities available. Like Wincustomize. Skinners are bound together by the process of creation, of art, not just the common bond of downloading (with maybe a little uploading.)
I wrote to Tweakfreak, what I said was private, but not all Warez kiddies are bad. The majority aren't. The challenge is to get the good guys out their to put the brakes on their hotheaded brethern. That is not a challenge face by the Warez community alone, but in every community.
I say again, thanks and peace.
kith
Reply #17 Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:38 PM
Reply #17 Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:38 PM
Paxx, To think some people actually wondered why MS was so serious about WPA! Who are you Robin Hood......?
Frogboy
Reply #18 Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:43 PM
Reply #18 Sunday, October 21, 2001 11:43 PM
Of course, what you wrote to Nanzy (admin of the warez site) was "private" too but he posted your email address and all email (putting himself in the best light). It speaks volumes of the class of people on these sites.
I've gotten some pretty horrific emails and I've got IRC logs from chatting with prominent people in the community who have said things that if were known would really hurt them (And some of them today are amongst my harshest critics). But I would never violate their privacy by posting their email or my IRC logs to the public.
Being civilized means having a lot of handicaps in conflict but the alternatives are not very appealing. I'd rather go to sleep at night knowing that those who disagree or even dislike me (or make baseless charges) are wrong than to do things that would prove them right.
I've gotten some pretty horrific emails and I've got IRC logs from chatting with prominent people in the community who have said things that if were known would really hurt them (And some of them today are amongst my harshest critics). But I would never violate their privacy by posting their email or my IRC logs to the public.
Being civilized means having a lot of handicaps in conflict but the alternatives are not very appealing. I'd rather go to sleep at night knowing that those who disagree or even dislike me (or make baseless charges) are wrong than to do things that would prove them right.
razorborg
Reply #20 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:26 PM
Reply #20 Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:26 PM
Sorry to interrupt this nice little chat, but there is one thing I honestly really would like to know.
I am also a member of this socalled "warez" site. I havent downloaded anything from the site, i allready got all the software I need, but I am very interested in and fascinated by the building of new operating systems like XP.
And I can certainly say that I would never even consider using a powerconsuming cosmetic application like WindowsBlinds, im simply too old for that and ive got other things on my mind.
I have noted with some surprise that a small company like Stardock has "taken on" a internet society like the site in question. I presume Starduck has pondered this situation very carefully. Many on the board consider this a declaration of war. So in that sense Stardusk has actually declared war on the internet.
This is not a question of moral or law, the software belongs the Stardock, period.
I think this action could be considered very courageous, but it could also be considered very stupid. My impression is that many on this board is teenagers like stated, but there seems to be a lot of very ressourceful people who potentially a very capable. For good and bad.
Other major software companies have turned away from the conflict solution and tried to take advantage of the popularity of their software.
So my my question is out of pure curiosity: Would You please be so kind as to explain why You have taken this action and, especially, what do You reckon You will gain by this ?
Thank You.
I am also a member of this socalled "warez" site. I havent downloaded anything from the site, i allready got all the software I need, but I am very interested in and fascinated by the building of new operating systems like XP.
And I can certainly say that I would never even consider using a powerconsuming cosmetic application like WindowsBlinds, im simply too old for that and ive got other things on my mind.
I have noted with some surprise that a small company like Stardock has "taken on" a internet society like the site in question. I presume Starduck has pondered this situation very carefully. Many on the board consider this a declaration of war. So in that sense Stardusk has actually declared war on the internet.
This is not a question of moral or law, the software belongs the Stardock, period.
I think this action could be considered very courageous, but it could also be considered very stupid. My impression is that many on this board is teenagers like stated, but there seems to be a lot of very ressourceful people who potentially a very capable. For good and bad.
Other major software companies have turned away from the conflict solution and tried to take advantage of the popularity of their software.
So my my question is out of pure curiosity: Would You please be so kind as to explain why You have taken this action and, especially, what do You reckon You will gain by this ?
Thank You.
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Reply #1 Sunday, October 21, 2001 3:40 PM
It's kind of a mirror universe of our community. Their Paxx equivalent would have a sinister looking mustache.
When they sprung their attack on WinCustomize, it was amazing how out of touch with mainstream reality. They have hung out together in their little cult so long that they believe that most people share their views -- that software should all be free and stealing software is morally okay.
In one post (That I didn't delete) on a news item here, one of them said how everyone breaks the law "Who here hasn't smoked marijuana now and then?" Um, MOST people don't smoke dope. But this must have come as quite a shock.
From their vantage point, we attacked them. They don't understand that by posting links to full versions of our software that they were harming other people. People like them always try to blame things on "corporate greed". It's such an overused term that's it's lost all meaning. People don't buy our software means we have to lay people off. People with families.
But these pepole don't see that connection. They see us attacking them. They don't see their actions for what they are - messing up the lives of individual people -- the ones who would be laid off because of decreased sales.
Like I said, they live in a mirror universe.