No, what they need to do is make marriage a religious institution unrecognized by the state, and make civil unions the state equivalent of what marriage is now.  This should make both sides happy.  Then if you want both--a marriage in the presence of whatever higher power your religion happens to recognize, AND a state recognized civil union with all the tax benefits and legal rights to joint property, you'd just have to GET both. 

The problem as it stands now is that it's impossible to even hold a debate on the issue because both sides are using the same word, but not the same meaning.

Thanx Starcandy.  I´m still awake, but Kittys lying here sleeping ....She´ll probably have something nice to say tomorrow..

gosh, my way of thinking, marriage is licensed under civil law and therefore is protected by the second amendment. If you don't want two consenting adults to marry for whatever reason then to be fair; outlaw marriage.

So, if one's a Pastafarian, that means linguini with white clam sauce.

Well, at the very least, the ceremony needs to be performed by a guy in pirate costume.

Okay, so I do apologise to Vampothika and neone6. It wasn't my intention to have a debate about marriage break out on what is really a special thread for the both of you.

That said, allow me to state a few things. I do feel divorce is a necessity, for the reason that DrJBHL stated if nothing else. I have no wish to marry my fiancee "in the eyes of god", because I'm an agnostic. Marriage for me is purely about making a deeper commitment to her, and showing her just how much I love her. My fiancee has had MS for nearly three years, and we've been together for just over five-and-a-half years. That means I've seen her in the flesh before the MS has started to cripple her, and I've witnessed her slow degradation. As unbearable as it may possibly become, I want to be by her side regardless of what the disease does to her. I want to be there to pimp her wheelchair when it gets to the point where she needs one (I suspect she's going to want us to get all Steampunk on its ass).

If you want to get religious about it all, what god would frown upon two people loving and supporting each other as we do. I'm a mess mentally, she's a mess physically; we aren't spoiling another couple, y' know what I mean. It's not about sex, so there's no reason to use any Sodom and Gomorrah diatribe. There's more sex drive in roadkill than there is between my partner and I, my pills have made damn sure of that on my end. Besides, I've spent long enough on my own to know that sex isn't the important thing. Being able to fall asleep in the arms of the person you love is the important thing. Being able to grow as a person and grow old alongside somebody who helps to make life worth sticking around for; who helps to make you understand why the hell you're here on this floating rock. That's what is important. I'm not interested in tax breaks or legal rights. I just want to be with the woman I love; face to face, and hand in hand, instead of using a freakin' webcam and microphone all the time. I want to be able to stop feeling so damn useless when she's in pain, because I'm over three-thousand miles away from her. Last but not least, we want the right to be as bloody miserable as any hetero married couple.

To know that we are denied the possibility of being together because of a piece of paper called DOMA, and a book containing the word of a deity that can create the universe and everything within it, yet can't write this book in the first place, and entrusts that duty to a massively flawed and confused species; well that just makes me want to wretch in anger.

Speech over... here's Tom with the weather!

Pay me fare an' I'll be only too 'appy ta do it... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

Oh, n' thar needs ta be lashin's o' food n' a cask o' rum as well.....

.... and anybody wot objects ter this ere union, speak now and ye'll  see tha point end o' me cutlass.

..... and today we will have a high of 42c, low level fog and a chance of burgers and fries.

Seriously, Helen, you come across as a very lovely person and I truly hope your dream is fulfilled to be with your loved one.

On a related note http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

Thanks Starkers, I hope it happens too. But considering my hopes can only be realised by politicians, judges and the population that created DOMA in the first place, I'm not holding my breath.

thanks starcandy xxx

I'm thinking a girl might be just as good.

That's a big relief! He might feel a bit strained, though.

Non-sectarianism is a good thing, wot?

You're very welcome, Vampothika.

You could say his belief holds no water

I'm pasta despair from the puns.

*** update***

I thought id let you guys know how things are going for me and andy in sweden... (our love nest hah)

With each new day our love and respect grows with strength and speed for each other, we laugh and make jokes and just have soo much fun as we get to know each

other deeper........ it has been the most amazing experience of my entire life!!!!

and then there is the artistic brainstorming sessions we have...its heaven insanity passion, we inspire and feed off each other artistically, and we both knew that would happen. we think very similar in the artistic sense, and for me its totally crazy to have another artist

i can turn to, compare with, get opinions and ideas and know they are going to be just as crazy as my own .

when it comes to relationships (and i, like probably everyone here has had my share of them,)  when you get that feeling that you know that the person you love is right for you, and you know that they will love you no matter what, make you a better person, be there for you..its perfect.

im gonna take a new piccy of us and upload, my baby will be home soon, i have his coffee ready for and hes coming home with dinner.

he now calls me his lil techno mi  hahah! and to me he is always gonna be my blacklight rebel angel.

   sounds like a happy kitty to me....  

And here we are

gosh darn, brings a smile to my face, you two look great together. Can't wait to see a jointly (puff, puff) produced blind from you two.

You look ever so happy there kitty... I'm profoundly pleased for you and Andrew.