pros and cons of "censorship"
Sunday, August 19, 2001 by Doreen | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Well Brad you know me by now I usually just speak my mind no matter how stupid or off topic or outragious it may seem to others but that is just me...
As long as I have been around the so called skinning community "I" have never been censored
(even though I probably deserved it a few times)
"my opinion" of you censoring that other thread tonight was that I felt it not necessary "he" did not really say anything worth being exiled or censored he simply stated an opinion and to actually go as far as deleting all the other comments of everyone elses along w/ it to make it take a form and shape it was not going to take if it had been left alone to go it's own path, seems weird to me, I don't feel comfortable even posting this cuz if you don't appreciate what even I have to say, you may just delete my thread???
Yes I know it is your site but must the members feel uneasy to express themselves or find their comments on your msg board deleted?
As long as I have been around the so called skinning community "I" have never been censored
(even though I probably deserved it a few times)
"my opinion" of you censoring that other thread tonight was that I felt it not necessary "he" did not really say anything worth being exiled or censored he simply stated an opinion and to actually go as far as deleting all the other comments of everyone elses along w/ it to make it take a form and shape it was not going to take if it had been left alone to go it's own path, seems weird to me, I don't feel comfortable even posting this cuz if you don't appreciate what even I have to say, you may just delete my thread???
Yes I know it is your site but must the members feel uneasy to express themselves or find their comments on your msg board deleted?
 |
|
Page 2 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Frank Leon
Reply #22 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:40 PM
Reply #22 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:40 PM
Doreen posted. FB responded with an exhaustingly long explanation that seemed reasonable to me. Whats the reverse? if you don't agree with Doreen and you you're causing a war? What constructive changes should happen? Spoofs everywhere taking pot shots at each other? Its pretty silly that anyone would argue the posting rights of a spoofer.
hegramet
Reply #23 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:46 PM
Reply #23 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:46 PM
Why is it silly? Spoofing is fine as long as the anonymity isn't abused. And it isn't. . . there aren't mass flamewars between spoofers, the tomcruise fellow wasn't flaming, I read his post. . .his statement, though a bit inflamitory, was accurate and polite.
Frogboy
Reply #24 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:52 PM
Reply #24 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:52 PM
His post was: 1) Totally off topic 2) It was inflammatory, and 3) It was incorrect.
Bottom line, if you're a fake user, you're walking on thin ice. If people think that fake users are just fine to use, then they're free to go to some other website.
When I started with BBSes, we coudln't evne post until we were validated. Validation required a phone call from the Sysop of the BBS. So hearing someone complain because we're not letting fake users hijack other people's posts to take pot shots at the site seems absurd to us old timers.
We're pretty happy with how the website is going. It's not going to go away and we're not going to make changes under duress. We are perfectly happy with the idea that people who think that this site is evil or wrong or whatever can go find other sites.
I am so fairly bothered as to how little some people are willing to put forth themselves. More people need to be like Chaz. Chaz likes skinning and he has managed to put up a pretty good skin website on his parent's cable modem. So if Chaz can do that, why can't you Hegramet? Anyone who wants to try to enforce their particular world view on us should just leave and start their own site.
We can argue forever about petty details on skin sites, but if you really want to help, start your own website.
Bottom line, if you're a fake user, you're walking on thin ice. If people think that fake users are just fine to use, then they're free to go to some other website.
When I started with BBSes, we coudln't evne post until we were validated. Validation required a phone call from the Sysop of the BBS. So hearing someone complain because we're not letting fake users hijack other people's posts to take pot shots at the site seems absurd to us old timers.
We're pretty happy with how the website is going. It's not going to go away and we're not going to make changes under duress. We are perfectly happy with the idea that people who think that this site is evil or wrong or whatever can go find other sites.
I am so fairly bothered as to how little some people are willing to put forth themselves. More people need to be like Chaz. Chaz likes skinning and he has managed to put up a pretty good skin website on his parent's cable modem. So if Chaz can do that, why can't you Hegramet? Anyone who wants to try to enforce their particular world view on us should just leave and start their own site.
We can argue forever about petty details on skin sites, but if you really want to help, start your own website.
paxx
Reply #25 Sunday, August 19, 2001 3:22 PM
Reply #25 Sunday, August 19, 2001 3:22 PM
The worse of all is we don't even know if there are spoof users or not. For all I know Frank Leon could be an alter ego for Frogboy since they're always of the same opinion but Frank is always much more agressive (don't laugh but I've been wondering about that fact for a while now)... Just as Craeonics could be Doreen's rebel side... In this virtual world, we don't know who people really are...
plainsong
Reply #27 Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:26 PM
Reply #27 Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:26 PM
So anyone who voices an opinion here should just leave? Interesting.. what's with the bad moods. I mean, it's not exactly news that net geeks don't much like censorship. 
And Frank Leon, you can agree or disagree as is your right of course. I was just pointing out that Doreen was hardly attacking anyone, yet was made to apologize... for doing nothing more than saying her view. TomCruise was censored for the same thing. I know there are other issues involved there... but the admins can say what they like.. it's censorship. Why else would they take this so personally if it were otherwise?
I don't hate wincusto or the admins of course. Frogboy stepped up to the plate at a time when the community needed him most.. and Stardock is doing a great thing here..
That being said, I still don't like censorship.
And Frank Leon, you can agree or disagree as is your right of course. I was just pointing out that Doreen was hardly attacking anyone, yet was made to apologize... for doing nothing more than saying her view. TomCruise was censored for the same thing. I know there are other issues involved there... but the admins can say what they like.. it's censorship. Why else would they take this so personally if it were otherwise?
I don't hate wincusto or the admins of course. Frogboy stepped up to the plate at a time when the community needed him most.. and Stardock is doing a great thing here..
That being said, I still don't like censorship.
plainsong
Reply #28 Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:28 PM
Reply #28 Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:28 PM
Aliases are just too hard for me to remember. I inevitably forget who has which email and what password. Some of us are just too simpleminded.
Doreen
Reply #29 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:10 PM
Reply #29 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:10 PM
Doreen: I am surprised to see you start a thread like this when you are an admin on another site.(Lots of Skins).
by JourneyMan BoXXi - 8/19/2001 11:23:31 AM
Boxxi you "don't" know me very well then do you???
I am Doreen first "in everything in my life" Admin, is somewhere else down the line...
(not into roll playing Boxxi not even when I come out to skin)
That was what "I felt" however I should have "not posted" what I felt, cuz Brad catches enough grief around here w/o me making things harder...
I realized that, and "Thank you so much" for shoving it down my throat even further!
I do have a prob. learning to "not say" what I feel...
I have seen you Boxxi fly off the handle in many occasions doing the same thing I did.
(which was expressing how I felt)
Brad is not a stranger to me all that much, I just felt "comfortable at the moment" to talk to him on HIS site, as he also comes over to LOS as well...
again Brad I'm sorry about it...
(what I did bugged me worse then what happened in the first place)
by JourneyMan BoXXi - 8/19/2001 11:23:31 AM
Boxxi you "don't" know me very well then do you???
I am Doreen first "in everything in my life" Admin, is somewhere else down the line...
(not into roll playing Boxxi not even when I come out to skin)
That was what "I felt" however I should have "not posted" what I felt, cuz Brad catches enough grief around here w/o me making things harder...
I realized that, and "Thank you so much" for shoving it down my throat even further!
I do have a prob. learning to "not say" what I feel...
I have seen you Boxxi fly off the handle in many occasions doing the same thing I did.
(which was expressing how I felt)
Brad is not a stranger to me all that much, I just felt "comfortable at the moment" to talk to him on HIS site, as he also comes over to LOS as well...
again Brad I'm sorry about it...
(what I did bugged me worse then what happened in the first place)
Frogboy
Reply #30 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:33 PM
Reply #30 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:33 PM
For the record, I think Doreen did a good thing in creating this post. People should feel free to ask questions. We just ask that the people asking the questions be who they say they are. 
And Paxx, sure, everyone who agrees with me is actually just an alias of me. It's part of my super human abilities of typing long posts as me and as lots of other alias's as well. It couldn't possibly have to do with some people having a similar outlook as I do...
And Paxx, sure, everyone who agrees with me is actually just an alias of me. It's part of my super human abilities of typing long posts as me and as lots of other alias's as well. It couldn't possibly have to do with some people having a similar outlook as I do...
Jafo
Reply #31 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:55 PM
Reply #31 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:55 PM
Well....now I'm really annoyed....
At 20 words per minute...I typed a marvelous, erudite response, oozing eloquence.....then my system crashed...quick...hit 'submit'
At 20 words per minute...I typed a marvelous, erudite response, oozing eloquence.....then my system crashed...quick...hit 'submit'
Jafo
Reply #32 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:59 PM
Reply #32 Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:59 PM
Anyway....bad luck...I'll be darned if I'm gonna type it again....
The gist of it was...I go out of my way to be known as the same person everywhere....[except DA, where some nerd beat me to register]..
Your opinins will hold a bit more weight if there is a 'real' person behind them.
[hit submit...just in case]
The gist of it was...I go out of my way to be known as the same person everywhere....[except DA, where some nerd beat me to register]..
Your opinins will hold a bit more weight if there is a 'real' person behind them.
[hit submit...just in case]
craeonics
Reply #34 Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:08 PM
Reply #34 Sunday, August 19, 2001 8:08 PM
There is only one crae (who is getting a mug from Grog!) and that crae thinks the threads on this particular board are rapidly going down the drain. It might be an idea to flatline the board for a week, so everyone can remember how normal conversations are supposed to go...
craeonics still digs the flames though
craeonics still digs the flames though
DavidK
Reply #35 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:04 PM
Reply #35 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:04 PM
wow... seems I missed an emotional occurrence here. Just got back online after two days of formatting/installing etc.
For the record... This site does not deserve the petty and arrogant attacks it gets from the losers that think they get to define the skinning community's ethics for everyone else.
And.... Tom Cruise is a coward. I'm not impressed at all.
For the record... This site does not deserve the petty and arrogant attacks it gets from the losers that think they get to define the skinning community's ethics for everyone else.
And.... Tom Cruise is a coward. I'm not impressed at all.
Elwin
Reply #36 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:29 PM
Reply #36 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:29 PM
Hmmmm...
Does anyone still actually skin apps around here anymore, or do they just wait for the debate teams to choose up sides?
If folks pushed pixels as hard as they pushed opinions, I'd be able to get my 50 megs of registered application skin downloads on a daily basis...
Elwin breaks out the Prozac for some, and Dr. Who's Jelly-Babies for the rest.
Does anyone still actually skin apps around here anymore, or do they just wait for the debate teams to choose up sides?
If folks pushed pixels as hard as they pushed opinions, I'd be able to get my 50 megs of registered application skin downloads on a daily basis...
Elwin breaks out the Prozac for some, and Dr. Who's Jelly-Babies for the rest.
hoverboy
Reply #38 Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:31 PM
Reply #38 Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:31 PM
I have to side with Frogboy on this one, and not just because we both have 'boy' in our nicknames. I have made myself quite unpopular with a few folks here because of my choice of OS and feverish defense of those who will bash the company who make it. Am I afraid that someone will get miffed at something I say and go and give my creations a bad rating? I really don't care, because this is just a hobby, something that I do for fun. Frogboy, on the other hand, pay's the bills with this, hence it is his living... well, Stardock is, and that's where I think the real issue lies. If Frog wasn't affiliated with Stardock, and was an independent programmer who popped this site up to promote his software AND to provide some community for skinners, I suspect that this would be a non-issue. People tend to rally behind the independent programmers and bash most "Tech" companies. I suspect that if Lots of Skins had a similar issue, that the way the users perceived their actions would be different because they are not affiliated with a company in the sense that WinCustomize is.
I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, kudos to Frogboy AND Stardock for stepping up when the community needed it the most.
I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, kudos to Frogboy AND Stardock for stepping up when the community needed it the most.
Fa65*BFh
Reply #39 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:58 AM
Reply #39 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:58 AM
I think FrogBoy is right, he got 2 choices:
1.- Delete the thread and make us a favor
2.- Leave it like that without caring about what does it say (What is more easy)
The fact i said that made us a favor is because, for example talking about myself, i KNOW this site, have been using it since long, and really like it, so i dont want to lose my time talking with someone about why does or not this site is good.
If it was about a new game, or a new Video Card, or else, that would be ok, since i dont know them and will like to read the disscusion to maybe in the future buy one of those, but about WinCustomize, well, everybody likes it here, and the ones dont leave, so there is no real need to say if s*cks or not.
I think this site is huge, and have been worryed about it become another Deskmod with HUGE library for almost all the skinnable apps... But remember it died, i think because money problems, im ok with the current WinCustomize sections (even dont use some ones) and wont like another super HUGE site who will die, i want a stable site with all i need, and if there is something missing im smart enough to search for it on Google
1.- Delete the thread and make us a favor
2.- Leave it like that without caring about what does it say (What is more easy)
The fact i said that made us a favor is because, for example talking about myself, i KNOW this site, have been using it since long, and really like it, so i dont want to lose my time talking with someone about why does or not this site is good.
If it was about a new game, or a new Video Card, or else, that would be ok, since i dont know them and will like to read the disscusion to maybe in the future buy one of those, but about WinCustomize, well, everybody likes it here, and the ones dont leave, so there is no real need to say if s*cks or not.
I think this site is huge, and have been worryed about it become another Deskmod with HUGE library for almost all the skinnable apps... But remember it died, i think because money problems, im ok with the current WinCustomize sections (even dont use some ones) and wont like another super HUGE site who will die, i want a stable site with all i need, and if there is something missing im smart enough to search for it on Google
Fa65*BFh
Reply #40 Monday, August 20, 2001 2:11 AM
Reply #40 Monday, August 20, 2001 2:11 AM
oh! and Doreen! Weird thread text... before reading i think you where talking about nudes or something like that...
I thougth "Man!, the flamefest starts... lets see... i will post about..." and already was starting to think about what to post on my imaginary thread..
I thougth "Man!, the flamefest starts... lets see... i will post about..." and already was starting to think about what to post on my imaginary thread..
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 2 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Reply #21 Sunday, August 19, 2001 12:22 PM
Instead, what do we have here? Just because you voice a concern or point out a potential problem doesn't make you anti-Wincusto. In fact, doesn't it make you for it? I wouldn't criticize the site unless I wanted it to do well.