Registered your software?
Wednesday, August 8, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just curious how many people downloading skins and such here have registered the program they're downloading skins for.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
One of the things we've thought about to keep bandwidth use under control would be to look at someone who's downloading many megs of WindowBlinds skins and see if they've registered WindowBlinds or purchased Object Desktop and bring up a dialog nagging them or something.
Some people using the shareware version are of course just trying out skins but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
Just curious as to what people here thought on that. Yea yea, the flames will start but Isuspect most of you register your software.
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SickPuppy
Reply #123 Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:43 AM
Reply #123 Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:43 AM
Froggy - seems strange to me you can come up with a way to please Microsoft and their allies/enemies for desktop space yet you find it so difficult with this site.
I've changed my mind, I was completely opposed to subscription etc but why not. Free 2 meg downloads per month or something for any user. Pay by credit card or whatever any amount you like then each section has a price per skin corresponding to bandwidth usage so Desktop X themes would be say 50c each while Winamp or Coolplayer skins would be 10c each. Credit lasts indefinitely so you could pay $20 and spread it out over the year as you want skins etc...... or if you use it up you can just top it up and carry on...... FIGURES ARE EXAMPLES ONLY
I'd also like to know how/why Froggy thinks that if a user is downloading 50meg of skins that they must be using a pirated version.... Although I have to say that 50meg is a HELL of a lot of skins.....
The other way IS to make it officially Stardock site, and have SUBTLE advertising, unlike T-Man's mock up, to help pay for the site...... It already is a Stardock site. It could be argued that the site is guilty of the same charges Microsoft are, regarding competitive practice, as it doesn't allow for competition with rivals such as Hoverdesk etc .... Especially when Litestep could be considered comparable to Desktop X and NextSTART is equivalent to ObjectBAR .....
Also showing people this is a Stardock site might stop all the idiots asking for warez or passwords etc......
I don't think you can use the registered software method a) because as has been bought up, not all the software you have skins for are yours
people aren't gonna be happy with it as Windows WPA shows, and if people accept it here but oppose WPA then they're hypocrits.... It's the same sorta deal as the whole .NET thing. If you make it so that people have to be using registered version of Stardock apps then essentially that in itself turns it into a Stardock company site.... Think about it !!!!
Well, that's enough....
I've changed my mind, I was completely opposed to subscription etc but why not. Free 2 meg downloads per month or something for any user. Pay by credit card or whatever any amount you like then each section has a price per skin corresponding to bandwidth usage so Desktop X themes would be say 50c each while Winamp or Coolplayer skins would be 10c each. Credit lasts indefinitely so you could pay $20 and spread it out over the year as you want skins etc...... or if you use it up you can just top it up and carry on...... FIGURES ARE EXAMPLES ONLY
I'd also like to know how/why Froggy thinks that if a user is downloading 50meg of skins that they must be using a pirated version.... Although I have to say that 50meg is a HELL of a lot of skins.....
The other way IS to make it officially Stardock site, and have SUBTLE advertising, unlike T-Man's mock up, to help pay for the site...... It already is a Stardock site. It could be argued that the site is guilty of the same charges Microsoft are, regarding competitive practice, as it doesn't allow for competition with rivals such as Hoverdesk etc .... Especially when Litestep could be considered comparable to Desktop X and NextSTART is equivalent to ObjectBAR .....
Also showing people this is a Stardock site might stop all the idiots asking for warez or passwords etc......
I don't think you can use the registered software method a) because as has been bought up, not all the software you have skins for are yours
people aren't gonna be happy with it as Windows WPA shows, and if people accept it here but oppose WPA then they're hypocrits.... It's the same sorta deal as the whole .NET thing. If you make it so that people have to be using registered version of Stardock apps then essentially that in itself turns it into a Stardock company site.... Think about it !!!!Well, that's enough....
SickPuppy
Reply #124 Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:45 AM
Reply #124 Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:45 AM
Oh and the subscription thing would require a much more rigorous moderation of skins. I've stopped coming here simply because of all the shit thats getting up....... Sorry but it is ! I wouldn't pay a subscription with all the half assed skins that are getting through.....
feline
Reply #125 Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:02 PM
Reply #125 Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:02 PM
is there any easy way for some of us message board active people to find out how much bandwidth we have consumed downloading skinz?
what i am interested in is some perspective on the suggested 50meg "action point"? how easy in reality is it to get close?
as a number, i find that it lacks context. also, how heavy in bandwidth is much talking in the message board? i would have thought very little, but dont actually know.
what i am interested in is some perspective on the suggested 50meg "action point"? how easy in reality is it to get close?
as a number, i find that it lacks context. also, how heavy in bandwidth is much talking in the message board? i would have thought very little, but dont actually know.
Frank Leon
Reply #127 Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:39 PM
Reply #127 Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:39 PM
Frank Leon thinks SickPuppy has poor reading comprehension skills.
Did fb say anyone donwloading 50 megs of skins is a pirate? no.
Frank Leon loves how stardock gets compared to Microsoft because it won't put up a hoverdesk section when hoverdesk doesn't have a desktopx section on its site. The double standards are funny.
Did fb say anyone donwloading 50 megs of skins is a pirate? no.
Frank Leon loves how stardock gets compared to Microsoft because it won't put up a hoverdesk section when hoverdesk doesn't have a desktopx section on its site. The double standards are funny.
Tarkus
Reply #128 Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:40 PM
Reply #128 Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:40 PM
I'm pretty sure Ford doesn't have a GM link on its site and Pepsi doesn't have a Coke link on its site, also.
For that matter, you won't find MS links on Apple or Linux sites, either.
For that matter, you won't find MS links on Apple or Linux sites, either.
Third Eye
Reply #129 Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:02 PM
Reply #129 Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:02 PM
Frank, a simple clarification.
Hoverdesk.net does not house it's own skinz; they are housed by other skinz sites.
Stardock.net is not a skinz site it is their company site. Other sites house skinz for their apps as well.
When this site was started is was only to be "funded" by Stardock. As this issue continues to come up, posts have revealed that this is not the case at all and that Stardock does have a major say in WC and that any competing app will not find a home here.
Stardock pays the bills here; their decisions are understandable and valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but what seems to be the problem here is that people were led to believe that WC would be something different than what has actually become of it and they just want to be clear of that fact. To hear it from the horses mouth if you will.
As far as the 50mb a month goes if you think about it that really isn't all that difficult to do. Most of the nice DX Themes are over a Meg and actually average between 2.3 and 3.3mb per theme if you take an average of those two you get about 2.8mb. You would only need to download 15-18 DX Themes to reach that 50mb mark, if this site has about 4000,000 unique visitors a month (and who knows how many of those are new people looking at these themes for the first time) of course you are going to have people that will download 50mb a month, but over time those people will have downloaded the skinz that they like and their download percentage will become much, much less. But then the more you advertise the more new people will arrive and the cycle continues. I am sitting on DSL and it only takes me a very short time to download these very large DX Themes, and you know, that is what they are there for.
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download, which is more than twice a large as the average DX theme. When it was published here is was on the front page as a news item, how many people do you think out of those 400,000 unique visitors downloaded it? As of the time of this post the count was at 2889. This theme alone has used 17,443,782,000 bytes worth of bandwidth in the last 13 days. That’s 17.4 gigs used by one DX Theme.
The current top download NewXP 3 - mcs2k1 is a 602k download, released on 08/14/01, and it has already had 4361 downloads and that number keeps jumping as each minute goes by. This theme alone has used 2.6 gigs worth of bandwidth in just 2 days.
In my opinion the bandwidth problem doesn’t have much to do with the people that are downloading 50mb a month, but it has a lot more to do with the popularity and size of the skinz that are being downloaded.
0.02
Hoverdesk.net does not house it's own skinz; they are housed by other skinz sites.
Stardock.net is not a skinz site it is their company site. Other sites house skinz for their apps as well.
When this site was started is was only to be "funded" by Stardock. As this issue continues to come up, posts have revealed that this is not the case at all and that Stardock does have a major say in WC and that any competing app will not find a home here.
Stardock pays the bills here; their decisions are understandable and valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but what seems to be the problem here is that people were led to believe that WC would be something different than what has actually become of it and they just want to be clear of that fact. To hear it from the horses mouth if you will.
As far as the 50mb a month goes if you think about it that really isn't all that difficult to do. Most of the nice DX Themes are over a Meg and actually average between 2.3 and 3.3mb per theme if you take an average of those two you get about 2.8mb. You would only need to download 15-18 DX Themes to reach that 50mb mark, if this site has about 4000,000 unique visitors a month (and who knows how many of those are new people looking at these themes for the first time) of course you are going to have people that will download 50mb a month, but over time those people will have downloaded the skinz that they like and their download percentage will become much, much less. But then the more you advertise the more new people will arrive and the cycle continues. I am sitting on DSL and it only takes me a very short time to download these very large DX Themes, and you know, that is what they are there for.
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download, which is more than twice a large as the average DX theme. When it was published here is was on the front page as a news item, how many people do you think out of those 400,000 unique visitors downloaded it? As of the time of this post the count was at 2889. This theme alone has used 17,443,782,000 bytes worth of bandwidth in the last 13 days. That’s 17.4 gigs used by one DX Theme.
The current top download NewXP 3 - mcs2k1 is a 602k download, released on 08/14/01, and it has already had 4361 downloads and that number keeps jumping as each minute goes by. This theme alone has used 2.6 gigs worth of bandwidth in just 2 days.
In my opinion the bandwidth problem doesn’t have much to do with the people that are downloading 50mb a month, but it has a lot more to do with the popularity and size of the skinz that are being downloaded.
0.02
Third Eye
Reply #130 Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:07 PM
Reply #130 Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:07 PM
Typo correction:
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download.
Should read:
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6.038mb download.
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6038mb download.
Should read:
One more thing, Bob XP by Frogboy uploaded on 08/03/2001 for DX is a 6.038mb download.
SickPuppy
Reply #131 Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:56 PM
Reply #131 Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:56 PM
.....but if they've downloaded 50 megs over the course of months, obviously they need to register it or stop using it (or at least stop using the bandwidth here).
If "nagging" people who pirate software and then download megs of skins for the pirated programs causes some of them to leave, that's an acceptable solution because fewer people is fine.
But if all that fails, I don't understand why someone would object to trying to stop people who are pirating our software and downloading many megabytes of skins. As has been pointed out, anyone downloading 50 MEGABYTES of skins isn't a casual user. A casual user wouldn't even be aware of any of this. I haven't even downloaded 50 megs of skins. But there are already thousands of people who have. And if they've at least registered the software they use, then that's great, we hope they download everything. But what about the guy who'se using a cracked copy of WindowBlinds? Why should people paying their hard earned money to register their software have to pay for the guy pirating the software and massively downloading?
Frank, those are all direct cut and paste quotes from Frogboys messages...... Even if it's not said outright, it implies that the people who are downloading excessively are using pirated/cracked versions...... I was just asking why he thinks this or makes the connection.....
Anyway, the point is not about pirating, it's about reducing / managing bandwidth. Since my previous post I have had some more thoughts on the subject.
1. Why not introduce a queuing system such as that used by www.fileplanet.com where bandwidth is constrained and people downloading have to queue, for sometimes over an hour, to get their download. This may sound daft BUT if someone is just downloading tons of skins for the sake of it, it's gonna be a huge deterent if they have to wait for hours to get them.
2. Why not introduce download quotas. Every registered user (of the site) gets 20meg of download 'space' per month. Visitors are only allowed a max of 5 downloads per visit, tracked via IP monitoring / cookies....... When you upload, as long as you have an account and the skin passes moderation, the upload KB/MB get added to your download quota. That way you either leech up to your max quota per month then wait for the next month or you have to give something to the site AND the community to be able to download more skins. Lets face it, you can't use more than one skin per program at a time so downloading hundred for the same program is stupid anyway. How many people have tons of skins they never use again, I know I used to have loads..... Now I have about 4 for most of the programs I use and if I download something new i usually junk one of the existing ones.
3. Enforce registering for downloads, or at least a members only part of the site where all the new skins and the majority of skins are kept leaving only older/or more dubious quality skins for unreg'd users.
4. I still think the moderation of submissions needs to be tightened up. How much bandwidth has been wasted by people downloading 20 versions of an XP skin to find that they're all virtually identical. Good skins are made as compact as possible to increase speed of use, dumping all the crap would free up bandwidth considerably IMO.
5. I still think the subscription thing would work as well, as long as the skins were sensibly priced and there was a 'free' area for newbies/casual honest visitors.......
Well that's it...... How about some real discussion instead of just flaming (Frank ?)
The problem isn't just gonna go away and if it's not resolved then we may just lose another site to that skinning site heaven in the sky !!
If "nagging" people who pirate software and then download megs of skins for the pirated programs causes some of them to leave, that's an acceptable solution because fewer people is fine.
But if all that fails, I don't understand why someone would object to trying to stop people who are pirating our software and downloading many megabytes of skins. As has been pointed out, anyone downloading 50 MEGABYTES of skins isn't a casual user. A casual user wouldn't even be aware of any of this. I haven't even downloaded 50 megs of skins. But there are already thousands of people who have. And if they've at least registered the software they use, then that's great, we hope they download everything. But what about the guy who'se using a cracked copy of WindowBlinds? Why should people paying their hard earned money to register their software have to pay for the guy pirating the software and massively downloading?
Frank, those are all direct cut and paste quotes from Frogboys messages...... Even if it's not said outright, it implies that the people who are downloading excessively are using pirated/cracked versions...... I was just asking why he thinks this or makes the connection.....
Anyway, the point is not about pirating, it's about reducing / managing bandwidth. Since my previous post I have had some more thoughts on the subject.
1. Why not introduce a queuing system such as that used by www.fileplanet.com where bandwidth is constrained and people downloading have to queue, for sometimes over an hour, to get their download. This may sound daft BUT if someone is just downloading tons of skins for the sake of it, it's gonna be a huge deterent if they have to wait for hours to get them.
2. Why not introduce download quotas. Every registered user (of the site) gets 20meg of download 'space' per month. Visitors are only allowed a max of 5 downloads per visit, tracked via IP monitoring / cookies....... When you upload, as long as you have an account and the skin passes moderation, the upload KB/MB get added to your download quota. That way you either leech up to your max quota per month then wait for the next month or you have to give something to the site AND the community to be able to download more skins. Lets face it, you can't use more than one skin per program at a time so downloading hundred for the same program is stupid anyway. How many people have tons of skins they never use again, I know I used to have loads..... Now I have about 4 for most of the programs I use and if I download something new i usually junk one of the existing ones.
3. Enforce registering for downloads, or at least a members only part of the site where all the new skins and the majority of skins are kept leaving only older/or more dubious quality skins for unreg'd users.
4. I still think the moderation of submissions needs to be tightened up. How much bandwidth has been wasted by people downloading 20 versions of an XP skin to find that they're all virtually identical. Good skins are made as compact as possible to increase speed of use, dumping all the crap would free up bandwidth considerably IMO.
5. I still think the subscription thing would work as well, as long as the skins were sensibly priced and there was a 'free' area for newbies/casual honest visitors.......
Well that's it...... How about some real discussion instead of just flaming (Frank ?)
The problem isn't just gonna go away and if it's not resolved then we may just lose another site to that skinning site heaven in the sky !!
Eddepet
Reply #132 Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:08 PM
Reply #132 Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:08 PM
Frank Leon,
Hoverdesk.net hosts Hoverdesk as a product but nothing else
stardock.com hosts stardock products but nothing else
double standards ?
do you see Microsoft hosting MAC-OS on its site ??
Hoverdesk.net hosts Hoverdesk as a product but nothing else
stardock.com hosts stardock products but nothing else
double standards ?
do you see Microsoft hosting MAC-OS on its site ??
Frogboy
Reply #134 Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:11 PM
Reply #134 Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:11 PM
Good grief, I was not implying people who download a lot were pirates. I stated clearly over and over that if someone has purchased the programs, I hope they download everything on the site.
Please do not put words in my mouth.
Please do not put words in my mouth.
Third Eye
Reply #135 Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:18 PM
Reply #135 Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:18 PM
You did so Frogboy. You specifically said anyone that downloads over 2.472.814mb is obviously pirating Stardock software and they should be corralled and placed into tiny boxes and shipped to randomly picked, complete unknown strangers houses to be used as garden gnomes and other various foliage decorative type objects.
Third Eye
Reply #137 Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:55 PM
Reply #137 Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:55 PM
You have a garden gnome don't you Doreen. It's ok, you can admit it. P)
chil
Reply #138 Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:55 PM
Reply #138 Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:55 PM
Nahh.. need no to register..someone can crack it...i'm only using freeware.who care.......
feline
Reply #140 Friday, August 17, 2001 8:44 AM
Reply #140 Friday, August 17, 2001 8:44 AM
SickPuppy - Why not introduce download quotas.
this idea seems sensible on paper, but i would have just run afoulw of it. 3 days a go i got a sound card for my work machine, so wanted a mp3 player.
i downloaded coolplayer, since it is skinable and highly recormended. i liked it, but wanted a different look.
i only downloaded the coolplayer skins that looked interesting, but that was about 40% of them. however, when i actually tried them most of them werent that nice, so i didnt keep them. so i downloaded 30 skins to get 2 nice skins since the preview pictures didnt really tell me what the skin would be like on my machine.
this only tends to happen when starting out with a program it is true, but for a new user who has just registered windowblinds (as a pertinent example) and is trying out different looks, they are likely to run into the limit quite quickly.
from what Frogboy has said, this isnt what they want to happen to people who have registered windowblinds.
how about this, after you have downloaded 20 meg in a month (or what ever figure seems reasonable) the site asks from evience that you are a registered user. if you are registered, no limit, but if you are not registered then the limit stays till next month.
i am presuming the site will have to ask, since how would wincustomize know that i am a registered user of OD? i may have used the same email address for my OD registration and here, but then again i may not have (i have several
).
of course, if it is true that stardock are tracking everyone all the time then they already know all this
a further thought, what about people who download loads of coolplayer, wallpaper, beatnik, ect stuff that isnt "directly" covered by an OD registration?
this idea seems sensible on paper, but i would have just run afoulw of it. 3 days a go i got a sound card for my work machine, so wanted a mp3 player.
i downloaded coolplayer, since it is skinable and highly recormended. i liked it, but wanted a different look.
i only downloaded the coolplayer skins that looked interesting, but that was about 40% of them. however, when i actually tried them most of them werent that nice, so i didnt keep them. so i downloaded 30 skins to get 2 nice skins since the preview pictures didnt really tell me what the skin would be like on my machine.
this only tends to happen when starting out with a program it is true, but for a new user who has just registered windowblinds (as a pertinent example) and is trying out different looks, they are likely to run into the limit quite quickly.
from what Frogboy has said, this isnt what they want to happen to people who have registered windowblinds.
how about this, after you have downloaded 20 meg in a month (or what ever figure seems reasonable) the site asks from evience that you are a registered user. if you are registered, no limit, but if you are not registered then the limit stays till next month.
i am presuming the site will have to ask, since how would wincustomize know that i am a registered user of OD? i may have used the same email address for my OD registration and here, but then again i may not have (i have several
).of course, if it is true that stardock are tracking everyone all the time then they already know all this
a further thought, what about people who download loads of coolplayer, wallpaper, beatnik, ect stuff that isnt "directly" covered by an OD registration?
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Reply #121 Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:33 PM