Is this a rip?
Wednesday, July 18, 2001 by treetog | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I recieved a message alerting me about this...
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.jhtml?componentId=61331
I really don't know how to proceed, since the person gave the credits in the skin's description, but never asked for my persmission and also changed my original graphics (erasing the skins real name of the titlebar).
I remember that last year, someone made a rip's list at skinz org and all the ripped skins were banished from the damn winamp.com site.
It seems that this kind of sucking things will never ands there.
http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.jhtml?componentId=61331
I really don't know how to proceed, since the person gave the credits in the skin's description, but never asked for my persmission and also changed my original graphics (erasing the skins real name of the titlebar).
I remember that last year, someone made a rip's list at skinz org and all the ripped skins were banished from the damn winamp.com site.
It seems that this kind of sucking things will never ands there.
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Raistlin-Elijah
Reply #82 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:05 AM
Reply #82 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:05 AM
Not to rip on ya treetog but don't for get we
skin this stuff for free so ripping is going
to accure.Thers nothing illegal about what he did (except for the moral fact that he stole from you). If we had people paying for the skins
we make, then theres something that can be done
legally. Hey he gave you credit, its not like he said it was completely his. Maybe if ya ask him nicely he'll take it down.
P.S. I'm new to the skining scene please don't start pouncing on me for responce, thanks.
skin this stuff for free so ripping is going
to accure.Thers nothing illegal about what he did (except for the moral fact that he stole from you). If we had people paying for the skins
we make, then theres something that can be done
legally. Hey he gave you credit, its not like he said it was completely his. Maybe if ya ask him nicely he'll take it down.
P.S. I'm new to the skining scene please don't start pouncing on me for responce, thanks.
craeonics
Reply #83 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:19 AM
Reply #83 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:19 AM
Actually, it does have legal hooks. Any work you make (with some restrictions ofcourse, but not in this case) is automatically copyrighted. Treetog _owns_ this piece. This means that it can only be modified or distributed (in public) if Treetog gives permission for it.
And this is not just my opinion, it is the law.
And this is not just my opinion, it is the law.
Mackintosh
Reply #84 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:40 AM
Reply #84 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:40 AM
Indeed. Sue Nullsoft. They should have deep pockets.
Garoo
Reply #85 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:44 AM
Reply #85 Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:44 AM
This weekly database thing is just ridiculous. Nullsoft's only motivation is that they don't want their newsletter to send readers to an error page. Oh would it look bad for such a big serious corporation like AOL to send readers on a 404 page.
Winamp didn't become what it is because it would be the best player ever: it just became the major player thanks to skinners. And now that they're so big, they don't care anymore and don't feel the need to respect the community.
I seriously think that:
- skinners should stop uploading any winamp skins anywhere
- nobody should consider skinning winamp 3
- skinning sites should either close their winamp sections, or put big signs all over them stating how nullsoft treats skinners
And if Nullsoft does remove the skin Thursday, or even earlier, shouldn't change the reaction. They have clearly shown that they don't care at all for skinners.
Before the skin is removed, it will have been downloaded tens of thousands of times, and Nullsoft doesn't mind - oh, they do mind, they are just so happy it gets so much traffic.
So I say boycott, and I say definitive boycott. This is just _not_ forgivable.
Winamp didn't become what it is because it would be the best player ever: it just became the major player thanks to skinners. And now that they're so big, they don't care anymore and don't feel the need to respect the community.
I seriously think that:
- skinners should stop uploading any winamp skins anywhere
- nobody should consider skinning winamp 3
- skinning sites should either close their winamp sections, or put big signs all over them stating how nullsoft treats skinners
And if Nullsoft does remove the skin Thursday, or even earlier, shouldn't change the reaction. They have clearly shown that they don't care at all for skinners.
Before the skin is removed, it will have been downloaded tens of thousands of times, and Nullsoft doesn't mind - oh, they do mind, they are just so happy it gets so much traffic.
So I say boycott, and I say definitive boycott. This is just _not_ forgivable.
kenray
Reply #87 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:27 AM
Reply #87 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:27 AM
HEY!!!!!!!!!
why is everybody acting like being an american faggot is an insult?
i am an american faggot, and damn proud!
(here is wisdom: beware any woman who hates gay men)
why is everybody acting like being an american faggot is an insult?
i am an american faggot, and damn proud!
(here is wisdom: beware any woman who hates gay men)
Jafo
Reply #88 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:33 AM
Reply #88 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:33 AM
Raistlin, I won't jump down on you...[I rarely do], but you are very wrong. Whether something is 'given' away freely or sold for a price makes no difference with the rights of ownership. That belongs with the author of the work.
The problem here is that the ripper in question has absolutely no interest in, or understanding of the graphic art world.
As far as she is concerned we would be better off pissing into the wind....
The problem here is that the ripper in question has absolutely no interest in, or understanding of the graphic art world.
As far as she is concerned we would be better off pissing into the wind....
Jafo
Reply #89 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:42 AM
Reply #89 Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:42 AM
Kenray...we can love American faggots like you, but to be called anything that we are not, is the problem....she could have said tree-hugging hippy crap and got the same response.
Now, if she'd called you an American faggot, you could have responded...'why, ma'am, have we met before? You seem to know me so well'....hehe....
Now, if she'd called you an American faggot, you could have responded...'why, ma'am, have we met before? You seem to know me so well'....hehe....
black udder
Reply #90 Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:34 PM
Reply #90 Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:34 PM
Wow...what a post. I feel for Treetog. However, although I would agree he has a legal issue, enforcing it is impossible. You'd have to remove it from every site and then the hard drive of every person who downloaded it. While it's preferrable, it's just not probable.
This is the risk every skinner takes in sharing their work (unfortunately).
On the upside, there are many, many more of us who appreciate the work in silence. I look for a few of my favorite skinner's works on a daily basis and enjoy each and every work. I appreciate their effort and wish I had the talent to do such things myself.
I believe that they have made more friends than enemies and that more people enjoy their work than abuse it.
Although it's disgusting that somebody shows such little respect for anothers efforts, it's not like it's a new thing (thieves, murderers, etc.) The fact that we find some of these ethicless individuals online is a fact we accept but try to ignore.
I think you did the right thing by making the request to remove it, but once they said no, it was time to move on. Focus on the thousands of silent (and some not so silent here) followers you have who love and respect your efforts and try to forget the assholes who bring you down from time to time.
Please don't let this deter any of your skinners from your efforts. It's a wonderful thing you do and you're changing the face of computing/applications in a better way. Keep your chins up and your skins though.
udder
This is the risk every skinner takes in sharing their work (unfortunately).
On the upside, there are many, many more of us who appreciate the work in silence. I look for a few of my favorite skinner's works on a daily basis and enjoy each and every work. I appreciate their effort and wish I had the talent to do such things myself.
I believe that they have made more friends than enemies and that more people enjoy their work than abuse it.
Although it's disgusting that somebody shows such little respect for anothers efforts, it's not like it's a new thing (thieves, murderers, etc.) The fact that we find some of these ethicless individuals online is a fact we accept but try to ignore.
I think you did the right thing by making the request to remove it, but once they said no, it was time to move on. Focus on the thousands of silent (and some not so silent here) followers you have who love and respect your efforts and try to forget the assholes who bring you down from time to time.
Please don't let this deter any of your skinners from your efforts. It's a wonderful thing you do and you're changing the face of computing/applications in a better way. Keep your chins up and your skins though.
udder
Dokt
Reply #91 Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:50 PM
Reply #91 Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:50 PM
ROFL - you'd never guess the schools had broken up for the summer (well they have over here in the gloriously damp UK) - every 6 year old's out to play. It's idiots like you that make using the Internet a real drag sometimes.
Sugaree
Reply #92 Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:00 PM
I sure hope karma works her magic on this Bitch sooner rather then later!
Reply #92 Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:00 PM
I sure hope karma works her magic on this Bitch sooner rather then later!
Frogboy
Reply #94 Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:51 PM
Reply #94 Saturday, July 21, 2001 2:51 PM
I deleted the post. Looks like we'll have to require valid email addresses to activate accounts.
Frogboy
Reply #95 Saturday, July 21, 2001 3:04 PM
Reply #95 Saturday, July 21, 2001 3:04 PM
Okay, I'm going to regret saying this but I think it needs to be said even if it upsets some people.
Sometimes the way skinning community handles ripping is so heavy handed that it is very counter productive.
Sometimes it's important to take a step back and decide whether the action you're taking is designed to make you feel better or to accomplish something.
To a non-skinner, seeing people get very upset to what amounts to (in their eyes) a few pixels of graphics can appear melodramatic and hysterical.
I am not saying that is how I feel. I am a skinner too and a software developer to boot, I definitely am disgusted at someone taking Treetog's skin, renaming it, and uploading it to some other site.
I had this same discussion with the Kaleidoscope people who were threatening Mercury because one of his skins was inspired (key word, inspired, not ripped) by some Kaleidoscope author. They were calling him names, flaming him, threatening him with lawsuits, etc.
Now, here's the issue that is hard to accept for any of us: There's not a lot that skin authors can do. That is, skin authors have very very little leverage outside of ethics and morality being on their side. Thus their best route is to use persuassion based on the argument of "doing the right thing". Antagonizing, insulting, putting people down, threatening, flaming, etc. these things may make one feel better but they don't usually accomplish the goal.
In my view, the best way to handle a solution is largley what Treetog has done. Send a gentle email to the author asking them to remove the skin voluntarily, explaining how many hours he spent working on the skin and that he really should be the one who decides where his skin is uploaded to. If the ripper doesn't do that, then email the admin of the site with a similar gentle email explaining the situation.
Just my 2 cents. Please don't flame me.
Sometimes the way skinning community handles ripping is so heavy handed that it is very counter productive.
Sometimes it's important to take a step back and decide whether the action you're taking is designed to make you feel better or to accomplish something.
To a non-skinner, seeing people get very upset to what amounts to (in their eyes) a few pixels of graphics can appear melodramatic and hysterical.
I am not saying that is how I feel. I am a skinner too and a software developer to boot, I definitely am disgusted at someone taking Treetog's skin, renaming it, and uploading it to some other site.
I had this same discussion with the Kaleidoscope people who were threatening Mercury because one of his skins was inspired (key word, inspired, not ripped) by some Kaleidoscope author. They were calling him names, flaming him, threatening him with lawsuits, etc.
Now, here's the issue that is hard to accept for any of us: There's not a lot that skin authors can do. That is, skin authors have very very little leverage outside of ethics and morality being on their side. Thus their best route is to use persuassion based on the argument of "doing the right thing". Antagonizing, insulting, putting people down, threatening, flaming, etc. these things may make one feel better but they don't usually accomplish the goal.
In my view, the best way to handle a solution is largley what Treetog has done. Send a gentle email to the author asking them to remove the skin voluntarily, explaining how many hours he spent working on the skin and that he really should be the one who decides where his skin is uploaded to. If the ripper doesn't do that, then email the admin of the site with a similar gentle email explaining the situation.
Just my 2 cents. Please don't flame me.
Buzz_Hog
Reply #96 Saturday, July 21, 2001 5:05 PM
Reply #96 Saturday, July 21, 2001 5:05 PM
Buzz_Hog grabs the flaming gerbil shooter and launches away at Brad....
Always gotta speak on the side of reason.... sheesh... ruin all our fun just as we were starting to feel good about beating up on that bag nasty....
Always gotta speak on the side of reason.... sheesh... ruin all our fun just as we were starting to feel good about beating up on that bag nasty....
paxx
Reply #98 Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:12 PM
Reply #98 Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:12 PM
Anything created by somebody is automatically copyrighted. Technically speaking, even forwarding an email is illegal. That's no joke. Technically, legally, forwarding an email without the author's permission is illegal. 
Jafo
Reply #99 Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:19 PM
Reply #99 Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:19 PM
I know you are right, Brad....I've been around in this game long enough to know. But sometimes you get really frustrated.
I don't have much time for idiots at the best of times, and this one really got under my skin....
Seems I missed some posts which were deleted....pity, I would have been interested in those.....just to see how our ripper behaved...
Sigh.....
The annoying thing is, she got her entertainment as she wanted....
I don't have much time for idiots at the best of times, and this one really got under my skin....
Seems I missed some posts which were deleted....pity, I would have been interested in those.....just to see how our ripper behaved...
Sigh.....
The annoying thing is, she got her entertainment as she wanted....
Draginol
Reply #100 Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:21 PM
Reply #100 Saturday, July 21, 2001 7:21 PM
True. Lots of things are technically illegal.
But in practice, what are you going to do? If Joe schmoe tkaes one of your skins and starts parading the net calling it his own, what are you going to do?
I always take the view that kindness and reason will win out 9 times out of 10 and threats and nastiness will fail 9 times out of 10.
I try never to make threats or take a hard line unless I'm in a position and willing to back it up with action if necessary. It's much easier to rely on the assumption that 99% of people will respond to politeness and reason.
But in practice, what are you going to do? If Joe schmoe tkaes one of your skins and starts parading the net calling it his own, what are you going to do?
I always take the view that kindness and reason will win out 9 times out of 10 and threats and nastiness will fail 9 times out of 10.
I try never to make threats or take a hard line unless I'm in a position and willing to back it up with action if necessary. It's much easier to rely on the assumption that 99% of people will respond to politeness and reason.
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Reply #81 Saturday, July 21, 2001 9:23 AM