Why our kids are monsters...
Sunday, July 15, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/7/14/85942/3961
I happen to really agree with this post. The problem with so many Americans these days is that they are consumed with the concept of acquiring material things. They want to acquire "Stuff" even if its at the expense of their children.
How many times have you heard someone complain how in the "good old days" only 1 parent "needed" to work to make "ends meet" yet today both are required. Often times, both parents go to work purely to maintain a standard that goes well beyond making ends meet.
In 1955, the average house size for a family of 4 was 1200 square foot. Today it's 2400 square foot -- twice as big. Typical family of 4 has 2 cars until the teenager can drive and then it goes up to 3 cars.
Then we get into how we "need" cable TV, vacations, summer camping, lots of gifts at Christmas, the latest electronic gadgets, etc. All this comes at a price -- our children.
Rather than putting our priority the human beings we *chose* to bring into this world, we put our priority into instant gratification and accumulating wealth.
And it's a real shame because the results are becoming increasingly obvious -- bad teens who are rudderless. I have neighbors whose teenaged children don't know what to do with themselves. They've never had to work for anything in their lives and are rudderless as they decide what to do for themselves. Our highschools are filled with teens who barely know their parents, have no concept of intimacy or feeling of closeness with their parents.
We naturally blame the media or video games or the Internet or the teachers because heck, we've been avoiding our parental responsibilties so long that why stop now? It's much easier to blame someone else anyway.
As a culture, we need to decide what our priorities are. Are kids essentially enhanced pets or are they an integral part of our lives?
I happen to really agree with this post. The problem with so many Americans these days is that they are consumed with the concept of acquiring material things. They want to acquire "Stuff" even if its at the expense of their children.
How many times have you heard someone complain how in the "good old days" only 1 parent "needed" to work to make "ends meet" yet today both are required. Often times, both parents go to work purely to maintain a standard that goes well beyond making ends meet.
In 1955, the average house size for a family of 4 was 1200 square foot. Today it's 2400 square foot -- twice as big. Typical family of 4 has 2 cars until the teenager can drive and then it goes up to 3 cars.
Then we get into how we "need" cable TV, vacations, summer camping, lots of gifts at Christmas, the latest electronic gadgets, etc. All this comes at a price -- our children.
Rather than putting our priority the human beings we *chose* to bring into this world, we put our priority into instant gratification and accumulating wealth.
And it's a real shame because the results are becoming increasingly obvious -- bad teens who are rudderless. I have neighbors whose teenaged children don't know what to do with themselves. They've never had to work for anything in their lives and are rudderless as they decide what to do for themselves. Our highschools are filled with teens who barely know their parents, have no concept of intimacy or feeling of closeness with their parents.
We naturally blame the media or video games or the Internet or the teachers because heck, we've been avoiding our parental responsibilties so long that why stop now? It's much easier to blame someone else anyway.
As a culture, we need to decide what our priorities are. Are kids essentially enhanced pets or are they an integral part of our lives?
treetog
Reply #2 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:04 AM
Reply #2 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:04 AM
ops!
One other very important point. At that time, I use to make 3 times more money then I make today all my kids use to have everything they want.
I'm sure that they are much more happy and better persons today, with much more sence of reality.
One other very important point. At that time, I use to make 3 times more money then I make today all my kids use to have everything they want.
I'm sure that they are much more happy and better persons today, with much more sence of reality.
Alexandrie
Reply #3 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:15 AM
Reply #3 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:15 AM
I always wanted to stay at home for my son until he will grow up. I'm proud to work at home. My husband has some working hours that fits nicely with our son. So our familly is often togheter.
I'm watching other kids sometimes who don't have one of there parents at home really often and it does not looks good at all. Expressing their love and the respect are not part of their lives. That's just too bad.
I'm watching other kids sometimes who don't have one of there parents at home really often and it does not looks good at all. Expressing their love and the respect are not part of their lives. That's just too bad.
Jafo
Reply #4 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:38 AM
Reply #4 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:38 AM
Then there's people like me who spend too much time in front of their computers, while neglecting their wives...
[of course, she has her head buried in a book, as always]...
[of course, she has her head buried in a book, as always]...
Emily
Reply #5 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:41 AM
Reply #5 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:41 AM
Its easy for you to say that Frogboy. Your a man. The burden for this childrearing you speak of rests on us women then. Someday I want to have children. But I also worry about my youth being spent changing diapers and never experiencing much in the world.
Theres also society to bring into this. My mom stayed at home raising us and working women would look down their noses at her for doing it. There is a lot of pressure on us to have careers today. Ask yourself why it is men don't stay home with the children often? Society. that same pressure is on us now.
Theres also society to bring into this. My mom stayed at home raising us and working women would look down their noses at her for doing it. There is a lot of pressure on us to have careers today. Ask yourself why it is men don't stay home with the children often? Society. that same pressure is on us now.
Elfkura
Reply #6 Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:27 AM
Reply #6 Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:27 AM
The most important jobs in this world for a male and a female is to be a good parent to his/her kids. Admit it, it doesn't bring in money, but you give something a lot more priceless than 6000 donations to some school.
I'll admit it. I'm a spoiled brat. I get just about what I "wanted" (wanted here is basically needed) and I never worked for it. However, the article is right. My mother has sacrificed so much of her freedom to raise two children.
Yes, I'm a spoiled brat, and my father can afford it. He does it because he feels bad for not being home more often, but I've told him that he shouldn't be buying anymore things for me or my younger brother. He works so hard because he wanted the family to have food on the table, roof over our heads, and clothes on our backs. For that, I'm already very grateful and I want nothing more.
But the article is right. Nevermind the media, nevermind the peers, the real differences a kid can have in his or her life is made by his or her parents. I've seen this proven to me over and over as time and time again, my mother has not failed in her judgement of character. She taught me much of what I know.
Therefore, I respect all of you who are parents in here. You have a huge responsibility on your shoulders, and only through you can the world be a better place
.
I'll admit it. I'm a spoiled brat. I get just about what I "wanted" (wanted here is basically needed) and I never worked for it. However, the article is right. My mother has sacrificed so much of her freedom to raise two children.
Yes, I'm a spoiled brat, and my father can afford it. He does it because he feels bad for not being home more often, but I've told him that he shouldn't be buying anymore things for me or my younger brother. He works so hard because he wanted the family to have food on the table, roof over our heads, and clothes on our backs. For that, I'm already very grateful and I want nothing more.
But the article is right. Nevermind the media, nevermind the peers, the real differences a kid can have in his or her life is made by his or her parents. I've seen this proven to me over and over as time and time again, my mother has not failed in her judgement of character. She taught me much of what I know.
Therefore, I respect all of you who are parents in here. You have a huge responsibility on your shoulders, and only through you can the world be a better place
.
bananafactor
Reply #7 Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:10 AM
Reply #7 Sunday, July 15, 2001 7:10 AM
My parents both go to work since I started going to school, they usually came home around 6:00pm. today (I'm 16 now), they come home a bit later. But my parents definately are my best friends, and I can be sure I can talk to them about whatever.
I don't think the relationship to your parents depends on whether or not you're at home all day, it depends on what you do with the time you have together. And it's not about having something exciting to do together either, just be there if the kids want to talk.
I know so many people of my age who argue with their parents all the time, where parents set limits and teens violently break them (question of coming home late, etc.). My parents and me agree on something, it's never: You will do what we tell you.
I think the most important thing is to not treat children as children so much but as equals, which is why I get along with my parents. They always give me the feeling I am a special person, and support me trying to find my own way.
I don't think the relationship to your parents depends on whether or not you're at home all day, it depends on what you do with the time you have together. And it's not about having something exciting to do together either, just be there if the kids want to talk.
I know so many people of my age who argue with their parents all the time, where parents set limits and teens violently break them (question of coming home late, etc.). My parents and me agree on something, it's never: You will do what we tell you.
I think the most important thing is to not treat children as children so much but as equals, which is why I get along with my parents. They always give me the feeling I am a special person, and support me trying to find my own way.
KenLin
Reply #8 Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:39 AM
Reply #8 Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:39 AM
Before having kids, we read a book called 'Shattering the two income myth'. It had us do a worksheet to determine just how much extra income my wife was going to bring home after we had the child. Because of both parents there are additional expenses - Daycare, gas, extra wear and tear on car, more nice work clothes, extra doctors visits etc. After taking all of that out of her income, she would only have been bringing home $3 an hour! We decided it was not worth it. She now stays home and we couldn't have made a better decision. Our kids are still very young (2 1/2 and 1 week!) but we feel this is better for eeryone involed.
BTW - Emily - I know women who have careers look down on my wife at times, but that just show their ignorance. What could be more important than raising your children? Selling things? Attending meetings? BAH!
And the decision was for her to stay because my current and future earnings were higher. I would have stayed had that been reversed (although I don't know if I could do it as well as she does)
BTW - Emily - I know women who have careers look down on my wife at times, but that just show their ignorance. What could be more important than raising your children? Selling things? Attending meetings? BAH!
And the decision was for her to stay because my current and future earnings were higher. I would have stayed had that been reversed (although I don't know if I could do it as well as she does)
rmiles7721
Reply #9 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:54 PM
Reply #9 Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:54 PM
I tend to agree with this. I spent 13 years in a job where I averaged 5-6 weekends off work/year. No Holidays (including Christmas). I noticed a post up above that came close to discussing the quality vs quantity time argument and I believe that it is actually a good mix of both that benefits children. Spending so many years working 70-90 hour weeks left me NO time (quality or otherwise) for my children.
I took a pretty big paycut to get my current position which offers me the time off that I need to spend with my wife and children and it has made all the difference in the world.
I took a pretty big paycut to get my current position which offers me the time off that I need to spend with my wife and children and it has made all the difference in the world.
craeonics
Reply #10 Monday, July 16, 2001 5:24 AM
Reply #10 Monday, July 16, 2001 5:24 AM
craeonics goes feline style...
"Are kids essentially enhanced pets or are they an integral part of our lives?" -by Froggy
I resent that. Do not look down on pets, they are not objects.
"But I also worry about my youth being spent changing diapers and never experiencing much in the world" -by Emily
That's one reason not to have kids. But really, the father should do that too, we're not in the Middle Ages no more.
Anyway, I think one reason is that parents don't have realistic views of their kids. All parents think that their kids are angels, until the kid goes way over the edge. Be realistic in that, be consistent and try to correct the behaviour.
"Are kids essentially enhanced pets or are they an integral part of our lives?" -by Froggy
I resent that. Do not look down on pets, they are not objects.
"But I also worry about my youth being spent changing diapers and never experiencing much in the world" -by Emily
That's one reason not to have kids. But really, the father should do that too, we're not in the Middle Ages no more.
Anyway, I think one reason is that parents don't have realistic views of their kids. All parents think that their kids are angels, until the kid goes way over the edge. Be realistic in that, be consistent and try to correct the behaviour.
craeonics
Reply #11 Monday, July 16, 2001 5:28 AM
Reply #11 Monday, July 16, 2001 5:28 AM
By the way, kuro5hin is a weird site. All those pseudo-intellectual, "hey, I'm serious and right, 'cos I can quote others" articles and opinions make my skin crawl (yes, I go there too).
MurkWorks
Reply #12 Monday, July 16, 2001 9:10 AM
Reply #12 Monday, July 16, 2001 9:10 AM
For my wife and I it was imperative that she stay home and raise our kids. Neither of us wanted anyone to raise them, because they wouldn't raise them how we wanted them to.
I am not a fan of Dr. Laura, but seeing her once on TV she said something that stuck with me. She asked the audience to raise their hands on who when they were growing up would rather been raised up in day care over your parents. No one raised their hands. She then asked, why would do it to your kids then.
My wife and I have made sacrifices so that she can stay home. That means I drive a crappy car, our house isn't as nice as any of our friends (I have one of those 1955's 1200 sq. foot homes), we don't have money to go buy nice things most of the time, but you know what, we don't care. We care more about how our kids are raised than anything material thing. We wanted our kids to be raised at home, and we have made sacrifices to do so. Anyone can do it. It all comes down to choices you make. If you want to do it you can, you just have to make the choices that will allow you to do it.!
I am not a fan of Dr. Laura, but seeing her once on TV she said something that stuck with me. She asked the audience to raise their hands on who when they were growing up would rather been raised up in day care over your parents. No one raised their hands. She then asked, why would do it to your kids then.
My wife and I have made sacrifices so that she can stay home. That means I drive a crappy car, our house isn't as nice as any of our friends (I have one of those 1955's 1200 sq. foot homes), we don't have money to go buy nice things most of the time, but you know what, we don't care. We care more about how our kids are raised than anything material thing. We wanted our kids to be raised at home, and we have made sacrifices to do so. Anyone can do it. It all comes down to choices you make. If you want to do it you can, you just have to make the choices that will allow you to do it.!
DaWebMassa
Reply #13 Monday, July 16, 2001 9:48 AM
Reply #13 Monday, July 16, 2001 9:48 AM
I don't agree with everything here...
My sisters and I were raised by our mother who stayed home. Yes, this caused us to experience the "dig through the couch for money to buy milk" and the "push start dads car so he can get to work" thing too. Sure, having mom around all of the time had it's advantages. And even though we were what I would consider poor, I wasn't jealous of my friends.
However... when it came time to leave the roost and actually do some things on our own, the adjustment was TOUGH. I had never done any laundry, cooked any meals, made my own bed, etc. There is something to be said for kids who have to take care of themselves to some extent. It teachs them responsibility, confidence and to some measure, matures them.
Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot of good things from my parents and enjoyed my childhood. My father, although he didn't always have time or energy, played with me and my friends, something I carry on today. AND, unlike many of todays lazy spoiled brats, we DID have chores to do. If we wanted money to buy something, we had to earn it.
My two biggest problems with todays kids...
Teach them that life is not a free vacation... that sometimes gains require effort. They can watch you work umpteen hours but if you just hand them cash out of guilt, they will never understand what it takes to get it.
AND... demand respect from the start. My father was tough but I love him immensely today and appreciate it because he kept me from ending up like many of my friends. I see way too many kids talk to thier parents like they were thier friends. You're a parent, expect to be treated like one.
OUCH! Apologies for the length...
My sisters and I were raised by our mother who stayed home. Yes, this caused us to experience the "dig through the couch for money to buy milk" and the "push start dads car so he can get to work" thing too. Sure, having mom around all of the time had it's advantages. And even though we were what I would consider poor, I wasn't jealous of my friends.
However... when it came time to leave the roost and actually do some things on our own, the adjustment was TOUGH. I had never done any laundry, cooked any meals, made my own bed, etc. There is something to be said for kids who have to take care of themselves to some extent. It teachs them responsibility, confidence and to some measure, matures them.
Don't get me wrong, I learned a lot of good things from my parents and enjoyed my childhood. My father, although he didn't always have time or energy, played with me and my friends, something I carry on today. AND, unlike many of todays lazy spoiled brats, we DID have chores to do. If we wanted money to buy something, we had to earn it.
My two biggest problems with todays kids...
Teach them that life is not a free vacation... that sometimes gains require effort. They can watch you work umpteen hours but if you just hand them cash out of guilt, they will never understand what it takes to get it.
AND... demand respect from the start. My father was tough but I love him immensely today and appreciate it because he kept me from ending up like many of my friends. I see way too many kids talk to thier parents like they were thier friends. You're a parent, expect to be treated like one.
OUCH! Apologies for the length...
JavaBrain
Reply #14 Monday, July 16, 2001 10:08 AM
Reply #14 Monday, July 16, 2001 10:08 AM
I, personally, have found a way to have my cake and eat it, too. My income is about 30% of our total income, so staying at home is not an option unless we only want to have one car, a really small house, and no money to have fun with. (One car sucks if it's with the one at work and you're stuck at home).
So, we built an in-law suite onto our house and have my parents live there. My Mom raised me, so I'm pretty sure she is capable of raising my daughter. Now, not only does my daughter have Mommy and Daddy in her day to day life, but Nana and Poppy (her names for them) are there, too.
I get up for work, and leave my daughter sleeping. She gets up and goes to playgroup and stuff while I'm gone, then my husband and I spend the rest of the night and weekends with her. The important part of this is, though, that we spend time with her. We don't ignore her when we come home.
I really don't think it is neccessary for the woman to stay home, but what is neccessary is for the parents to pay attention to their children, and *not* give them everything they want.
just my $.02
So, we built an in-law suite onto our house and have my parents live there. My Mom raised me, so I'm pretty sure she is capable of raising my daughter. Now, not only does my daughter have Mommy and Daddy in her day to day life, but Nana and Poppy (her names for them) are there, too.
I get up for work, and leave my daughter sleeping. She gets up and goes to playgroup and stuff while I'm gone, then my husband and I spend the rest of the night and weekends with her. The important part of this is, though, that we spend time with her. We don't ignore her when we come home.
I really don't think it is neccessary for the woman to stay home, but what is neccessary is for the parents to pay attention to their children, and *not* give them everything they want.
just my $.02
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Reply #1 Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:59 AM
My older daugther is now in the university and works half period. My 11 years old son (little tog) is, with any doubt, my best friend and my little daughter Rafaella (5years), is going in the same good way.
Yup Brad, it depends on us!