The problem of skin sites
Wednesday, July 4, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I've been visiting Skinbase quite a bit lately slowly uploading some of my stuff there.
And it hit me, the problem new sites have, especially right now, is that because it's so time consuming to upload skins and because no one can be sure how long many of these sites wil be around that many skin authors (myself included) fear that the hours we're spending uploading is going to go to waste if the site goes down.
I think one of the reasons why WinCustomize has done well in the skins area since it launched is because skin authors know it's not going to go away thus it's worth taking the time.
So how do we make it easier to upload skins to multiple sites? I was thinking it could be solved through software:
A program in which you type in your logon info to various sites and it would log you on and you could mass submit skins to all the sites at once. So when you're uploading that Litetep theme or WindowBlinds skin it would be uploaded to all the sites you chose to at once. We could even make it so that you could queue up a bunch of skins to be submitted. Since it would be a program and not web based, the slowness of going through the varius submission pages wouldn't be an issue.
This is just an idea right now, what do you guys think?
And it hit me, the problem new sites have, especially right now, is that because it's so time consuming to upload skins and because no one can be sure how long many of these sites wil be around that many skin authors (myself included) fear that the hours we're spending uploading is going to go to waste if the site goes down.
I think one of the reasons why WinCustomize has done well in the skins area since it launched is because skin authors know it's not going to go away thus it's worth taking the time.
So how do we make it easier to upload skins to multiple sites? I was thinking it could be solved through software:
A program in which you type in your logon info to various sites and it would log you on and you could mass submit skins to all the sites at once. So when you're uploading that Litetep theme or WindowBlinds skin it would be uploaded to all the sites you chose to at once. We could even make it so that you could queue up a bunch of skins to be submitted. Since it would be a program and not web based, the slowness of going through the varius submission pages wouldn't be an issue.
This is just an idea right now, what do you guys think?
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Jafo
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:13 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:13 PM
Does sound good...anyone who had been involved in the CommunitySkin projects would be welcoming the ability to simplify multiple uploads...
Frogboy
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:36 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:36 PM
Yea. Plus it would be a good way to spread out the traffic. We don't measure the success of skinning based on this site's traffic, we base it on the combined traffic of all the skin sites.
If I could upload my DesktopX theme to Skinbase, DA, WinCustomize, and LOS at the same time that would get a lot more skins onto the newer sites. Then users would be able to go to the sites that suit their needs more. Each site has its own unique style to it but without the skin content, it's hard for many users to go to them.
Someone talked about a Napster style thing for skins which I don't think would necessarily work but a program that, instead of being peer, was integrated into the 4 or 5 largest skin sites would really help.
Heck, why not have a program that is a universal skin browser that could tie into the message boards of the various sites and the skins too? That would be quite a bit more work though.
If I could upload my DesktopX theme to Skinbase, DA, WinCustomize, and LOS at the same time that would get a lot more skins onto the newer sites. Then users would be able to go to the sites that suit their needs more. Each site has its own unique style to it but without the skin content, it's hard for many users to go to them.
Someone talked about a Napster style thing for skins which I don't think would necessarily work but a program that, instead of being peer, was integrated into the 4 or 5 largest skin sites would really help.
Heck, why not have a program that is a universal skin browser that could tie into the message boards of the various sites and the skins too? That would be quite a bit more work though.
honz12
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:57 PM
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 6:57 PM
Wow!! That's an awesome idea!! And it would certainly save a VERY long.
I'm just wondering......surely this can't be the first time someone's thought of this?????
I'm just wondering......surely this can't be the first time someone's thought of this?????
GreenReaper
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 7:13 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 7:13 PM
Why wouldn't a Napster-style thing - or better, a Gnutella-style thing - work? You could end up with a "Distributed Skins Network". No worries about a skin going out of distribution - *if* people thought it was good enough to keep, they'd have it, and even if the initial site went down it would still be there. Obviously this would be on an opt-in basis - if you used it, you'd be encouraged to share, but not forced to.
There'd be a few problems that would have to be overcome (such as how new skins get onto the network, and how they're "advertised"), but I can see this playing a cooperative role - at least taking *some* of the load off the skin sites.
There'd be a few problems that would have to be overcome (such as how new skins get onto the network, and how they're "advertised"), but I can see this playing a cooperative role - at least taking *some* of the load off the skin sites.
l0c
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 10:45 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 10:45 PM
Yeah brad we were gonna do it all server side with XML backends awhile back. I know the other sites would have no prob. This would be a bit more intuitive anyway 
craeonics
Reply #7 Thursday, July 5, 2001 4:06 AM
Reply #7 Thursday, July 5, 2001 4:06 AM
I was actually planning on making seperate skins for seperate sites (that is, if I ever make one). But it sounds good to me. All sites seem to use similar skins specs.
DaWebMassa
Reply #8 Thursday, July 5, 2001 9:46 AM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 5, 2001 9:46 AM
I love the idea but the problem I see is that some sites want a JPG preview and yet others a GIF. While one site wants a ZIP file, the other wants a .WBA or .THEME
I would totally support any such concept and hopefully once it is implemented, other sites would work to conform to the "new standard" if they wanted on the upload list.
I would totally support any such concept and hopefully once it is implemented, other sites would work to conform to the "new standard" if they wanted on the upload list.
pjpowell
Reply #9 Thursday, July 5, 2001 10:02 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 5, 2001 10:02 AM
Well a wba, or dxtheme, dxpack is basically a renamed zip file. So it could in theory just upload with a different extension. The web masters would have to collaborate on the thing in the first place so I am sure something could be worked out regarding image file formats. If needs be you could upload a GIF and a JPG.
It sounds a nice idea and one reason I don't upload to many sites is just the time it takes to do it. You've got to go to the site, search for the upload bit, read what restrictions are in place on what can be uploaded (ie GIF/JPG size of image, ZIP,WBA etc). If that were taken out of the equation it would certainly speed things up.
It sounds a nice idea and one reason I don't upload to many sites is just the time it takes to do it. You've got to go to the site, search for the upload bit, read what restrictions are in place on what can be uploaded (ie GIF/JPG size of image, ZIP,WBA etc). If that were taken out of the equation it would certainly speed things up.
Frank Leon
Reply #10 Thursday, July 5, 2001 5:13 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, July 5, 2001 5:13 PM
If it just supported WinAmp, ICQPlus, WindowBlinds, IconPackager, and Wallpaper that would be a good start.
gorman
Reply #11 Thursday, July 5, 2001 5:24 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, July 5, 2001 5:24 PM
Here's the thing though, this would make the content of all of the skin sites nearly identical. Some people upload to them all, some upload some pieces to one and not the other, some only upload to one; this keeps the sites unique. People go to skin sites for the content mainly; the features, admins, ideas, etc. are all secondary reasons. If all sites have all of the files, which would end up happening if it was so easy to upload to them all, then most people would just start visiting one site mainly. It would definitely simply things for artists, but I think it would end up hurting the sites.
Just my 2 cents
-gorman
Just my 2 cents
-gorman
Jafo
Reply #12 Thursday, July 5, 2001 7:41 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 5, 2001 7:41 PM
Gorman has a point.......
Of course, we could just not tell anyone that all the sites would have the same stuff....hehe...
Of course, we could just not tell anyone that all the sites would have the same stuff....hehe...
paxx
Reply #13 Thursday, July 5, 2001 8:32 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, July 5, 2001 8:32 PM
Well since it was said that the problem is that site don't stay around very long, then the software may be very quickly outdated.
Then the soluton may be to have the software configurable by the user, where the user himself would set it up to upload to the site he wants to upload to. A little bit like you add different mail accounts in a email software, you could add site accounts in the software.
Now, how this could be done, I'm not sure.
Maybe one would need to enter the upload page URL, as well as username and password for each of the site one wants to upload to.
Not sure if its feasable, but it's the only way to keep it from getting quickly outdated, and it also solves to problem raised by gorman. People would still decide where to upload to, it's just going to be done quicker.
What do you think?
Then the soluton may be to have the software configurable by the user, where the user himself would set it up to upload to the site he wants to upload to. A little bit like you add different mail accounts in a email software, you could add site accounts in the software.
Now, how this could be done, I'm not sure.
Maybe one would need to enter the upload page URL, as well as username and password for each of the site one wants to upload to.
Not sure if its feasable, but it's the only way to keep it from getting quickly outdated, and it also solves to problem raised by gorman. People would still decide where to upload to, it's just going to be done quicker.
What do you think?
Frogboy
Reply #15 Thursday, July 5, 2001 9:12 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, July 5, 2001 9:12 PM
Seems like it would be configurable.
For instance, you oculd have a configuration file that has the various key lines that these sites must all have.
Something like:
1) Logon user:
www.website.com/logon.asp?login=frogboy&password=paxxeatsbugs
2) Website Submine line
www.website.com/submit.asp?section=windowblinds&preview=frog.gif&file=frog.wba&description=This is a new skin&subsection=misc
Whether the site is PHP or ASP driven, they all should have something like this where they would make it so that you could configure in what the various parameters are:
URL: www.website.com/submit.asp
Param Names: preview,file,description,subsection
Param Types: PREVIEW, FILE, DESCRIPTION, CATEGORY
This is basically how they're done (something like this is how it's done here for instance).
For instance, you oculd have a configuration file that has the various key lines that these sites must all have.
Something like:
1) Logon user:
www.website.com/logon.asp?login=frogboy&password=paxxeatsbugs
2) Website Submine line
www.website.com/submit.asp?section=windowblinds&preview=frog.gif&file=frog.wba&description=This is a new skin&subsection=misc
Whether the site is PHP or ASP driven, they all should have something like this where they would make it so that you could configure in what the various parameters are:
URL: www.website.com/submit.asp
Param Names: preview,file,description,subsection
Param Types: PREVIEW, FILE, DESCRIPTION, CATEGORY
This is basically how they're done (something like this is how it's done here for instance).
gorman
Reply #16 Friday, July 6, 2001 2:20 AM
Reply #16 Friday, July 6, 2001 2:20 AM
If you do end up doing this, I'd suggest an XML config file. You could allow any skin site (including the smaller ones) out there to submit an XML file that tells the program how to submit it; it would almost be like a mini-plugin. That would be neat; however, do make note of my views above
-gorman
-gorman
kenray
Reply #17 Friday, July 6, 2001 2:39 AM
Reply #17 Friday, July 6, 2001 2:39 AM
gorman, have noted your comments above, but, new people tend to come to skinsites from links elsewhere.
even if every site had the same skins, the accesory content woudl keep peopel going ot whichever site served their interests best, i beleive.
the convenience in this idea woudl be a great thing for skinners...
even if every site had the same skins, the accesory content woudl keep peopel going ot whichever site served their interests best, i beleive.
the convenience in this idea woudl be a great thing for skinners...
paxx
Reply #18 Friday, July 6, 2001 10:01 AM
Froybog, I love your password!
Hahaha! You're killing me!
Reply #18 Friday, July 6, 2001 10:01 AM
Froybog, I love your password!
Hahaha! You're killing me!
gorman
Reply #19 Friday, July 6, 2001 11:36 AM
Reply #19 Friday, July 6, 2001 11:36 AM
It'd definitely be a convenience; but imagine visiting all of the skin sites and seeing the exact same skins on all of the sites. I just think it would ruin the uniqueness in quality all of the sites have. The feel of the content on every skin site differs, and I think that's something special. Again, just my thoughts
-gorman
-gorman
migellito
Reply #20 Friday, July 6, 2001 4:32 PM
Reply #20 Friday, July 6, 2001 4:32 PM
dave: i see your point, but the uploading artist would still have the choice over which skin sites were in their keychain. granted, many would put in -every- site, but i think there are many others who would still pick and choose which sites they upped to. there could even be a spot on each supporting site where you download -their- xml (for example) key, which then got auto-added to your keychain. or something.. (i read all this pretty quickly)
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Reply #1 Wednesday, July 4, 2001 5:41 PM