My thoughts
Thursday, June 21, 2001 by Nuvem | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Ok, time to get a bit serious here.
Two days ago Alexandrie contacted me with this 'XPutnik' wall for a joke. It was my Sputnik wallpaper modified with the XP logo and lettering. When I saw it I couldn´t stop laughing and I uploaded it as a joke to all the XP stuff we have here at Wincusto lately. After that I saw Jafo´s post and we started to fool around trying to get Nicole with the worst wall ( I won, mine is worse than his:) )
To my surprise, that wall went to 1º in the top 10, I went speechless!!! I mean, that wall is the worst thing I´ve ever made since I learned to draw a cow when I was fourteen. At first I was amused, now I feel a bit sad with all this. I have some good walls here that took many hours of work and didn´t even make the top 10 and this piece of crap gets 1º. THIS IS SAD.
From this I can make some conclusions and I´ll share them with you fellow skinners/artists just to express what I feel with this whole thing. It is not my intention to offend XP skinners or users that like and download this kind of stuff.
1- People do like swirls, lens flares and other crappy filters that only take a good graphic app and 5 seconds to do. You don´t need to have any kind of skills, and don´t need to be creative.
2- If you want to show up in the top 10, the only thing you need to do is to imitate the latest Microsoft OS look.
3- If you do this imitation in blue, the possibilities to get into the top 10 increase considerably.
4- This XP stuff is overlooking good skinners/artists that try, and are creative in their work. the chances to get into the top ten are diminished if you don´t do XP related work or aren't a very popular skinner.
5-All this XP madness is being a negative to this site and should be moderated. There is no creativity, no skills needed and as this friend of mine told me, it wouldn´t happen at old skinz.org.
6- I´ll delete my XPutnik wallpaper now, my intention was to do an ironic joke and by the number of downloads it is very clear that my point here was not accomplished.
7- Nicole is mine, she´s actually in the kitchen making us a lasagna and we´ll go to a movie later:)))))
Two days ago Alexandrie contacted me with this 'XPutnik' wall for a joke. It was my Sputnik wallpaper modified with the XP logo and lettering. When I saw it I couldn´t stop laughing and I uploaded it as a joke to all the XP stuff we have here at Wincusto lately. After that I saw Jafo´s post and we started to fool around trying to get Nicole with the worst wall ( I won, mine is worse than his:) )
To my surprise, that wall went to 1º in the top 10, I went speechless!!! I mean, that wall is the worst thing I´ve ever made since I learned to draw a cow when I was fourteen. At first I was amused, now I feel a bit sad with all this. I have some good walls here that took many hours of work and didn´t even make the top 10 and this piece of crap gets 1º. THIS IS SAD.
From this I can make some conclusions and I´ll share them with you fellow skinners/artists just to express what I feel with this whole thing. It is not my intention to offend XP skinners or users that like and download this kind of stuff.
1- People do like swirls, lens flares and other crappy filters that only take a good graphic app and 5 seconds to do. You don´t need to have any kind of skills, and don´t need to be creative.
2- If you want to show up in the top 10, the only thing you need to do is to imitate the latest Microsoft OS look.
3- If you do this imitation in blue, the possibilities to get into the top 10 increase considerably.
4- This XP stuff is overlooking good skinners/artists that try, and are creative in their work. the chances to get into the top ten are diminished if you don´t do XP related work or aren't a very popular skinner.
5-All this XP madness is being a negative to this site and should be moderated. There is no creativity, no skills needed and as this friend of mine told me, it wouldn´t happen at old skinz.org.
6- I´ll delete my XPutnik wallpaper now, my intention was to do an ironic joke and by the number of downloads it is very clear that my point here was not accomplished.
7- Nicole is mine, she´s actually in the kitchen making us a lasagna and we´ll go to a movie later:)))))
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kenray
Reply #22 Friday, June 22, 2001 10:03 AM
Reply #22 Friday, June 22, 2001 10:03 AM
hehehhee...
my one claim to fame:
I, Kenray, have never ever looked at an "XP" anything, on this site or any other. My eyes (and therefore, mind) remain in a state of XP-Virginity.
The simplest solution to the XP-lague is: abstinence....
my one claim to fame:
I, Kenray, have never ever looked at an "XP" anything, on this site or any other. My eyes (and therefore, mind) remain in a state of XP-Virginity.
The simplest solution to the XP-lague is: abstinence....
Nuvem
Reply #23 Friday, June 22, 2001 1:54 PM
Reply #23 Friday, June 22, 2001 1:54 PM
Treetog, this was the right thing to do, I mean if I ever get to 1º at top list (wich I doubt)I want it be for my value as a skiner or wallpaper artist.not this way.
Jafo, who needs Nicole when you have China;)
Anyway. she dumped me when she found I wouldn´t buy her some glue of diamonds she wanted:P
Jafo, who needs Nicole when you have China;)
Anyway. she dumped me when she found I wouldn´t buy her some glue of diamonds she wanted:P
thecat2000
Reply #25 Friday, June 22, 2001 8:44 PM
Reply #25 Friday, June 22, 2001 8:44 PM
Ok, I can see why people are upset over XP and I agree that a lot of talented artist don't stand a chance of getting into the top ten if there work is other than XP lately.
Worse thing is I was in the OB section just now, and every OB theme I saw was XP, and they all look identical now. I encouraged one of the artist to do something original. Hell I get asked to do this too. I was recently accused of having like 30 XP WB skins !
ok that just is NOT true, and there is now only a few of them on the site now. I have deleted the rest in favour of my recent upload which is the one I wanted all along to look like.
Feel sad at the fact that many talented Artists arn't getting into the top ten. I have spoken to Treetog about my real feelings on this. And hell I am not just doing XP stuff forever anyway. I have some stuff on deviantart that is not Microsoft.I started out like that, then tailed off. Ok maybe there is hope for me yet,
I do have to say though that it does take skill and talent to create any kind of WB Skin or any other skin for that matter. Not just about every one can use a Skinning program to start with. WB is not a piece of cake to learn. As for graphics, well. I did much of my graphics by hand too. Ok I know some people wont accept that. But that is the truth and I stand by that. Most XP skins I see except a small portion of them are bad copies of skin that were done before them. They should not have been submitted as there was no need for them. Alexandrie, Scratch, and even Dan Decampaneu created early Luna and Whistler skins. I ended up doing them after I had created a theme for Hoverdesk for them. Anyway,.
Dont worry guys it will all be over some time soon.
When XP is out no one will touch another XP so and so on here anyway, and the real talent will still be here. 
I do think that some XP work should well be moderated, to keep the high quality of standards. Some should be but not all.
I know in fact this must already be happening anyway. As some of the XP stuff has vanished. I moderated my own skins, and removed theones that were not important anymore. I WAS thinking of doing an OB version, but I decided not to. There is still too many in that section.!
[And mostly by the same person] Thats why I have encouraged him to try new hights.
Worse thing is I was in the OB section just now, and every OB theme I saw was XP, and they all look identical now. I encouraged one of the artist to do something original. Hell I get asked to do this too. I was recently accused of having like 30 XP WB skins !
ok that just is NOT true, and there is now only a few of them on the site now. I have deleted the rest in favour of my recent upload which is the one I wanted all along to look like. Feel sad at the fact that many talented Artists arn't getting into the top ten. I have spoken to Treetog about my real feelings on this. And hell I am not just doing XP stuff forever anyway. I have some stuff on deviantart that is not Microsoft.I started out like that, then tailed off. Ok maybe there is hope for me yet,
I do have to say though that it does take skill and talent to create any kind of WB Skin or any other skin for that matter. Not just about every one can use a Skinning program to start with. WB is not a piece of cake to learn. As for graphics, well. I did much of my graphics by hand too. Ok I know some people wont accept that. But that is the truth and I stand by that. Most XP skins I see except a small portion of them are bad copies of skin that were done before them. They should not have been submitted as there was no need for them. Alexandrie, Scratch, and even Dan Decampaneu created early Luna and Whistler skins. I ended up doing them after I had created a theme for Hoverdesk for them. Anyway,.
Dont worry guys it will all be over some time soon.
When XP is out no one will touch another XP so and so on here anyway, and the real talent will still be here. 
I do think that some XP work should well be moderated, to keep the high quality of standards. Some should be but not all. I know in fact this must already be happening anyway. As some of the XP stuff has vanished. I moderated my own skins, and removed theones that were not important anymore. I WAS thinking of doing an OB version, but I decided not to. There is still too many in that section.!
[And mostly by the same person] Thats why I have encouraged him to try new hights.
feline
Reply #26 Saturday, June 23, 2001 12:23 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, June 23, 2001 12:23 PM
craeonics sees my point proven that 90% of the world has no taste whatsoever
i keep telling you not to eat these things
if you wont take my very sensible advice, you will have to put up with this bland diet
i keep telling you not to eat these things
if you wont take my very sensible advice, you will have to put up with this bland diet
GreenReaper
Reply #27 Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:17 PM
Reply #27 Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:17 PM
I don't see the problem. You're giving people what they want. You're making them happy. People *like* XP wallpaper, possibly because MS prices it high enough that not everyone can afford the real thing. Trying to force people to like stuff that seems good to you (but which they *don't* like) onto others isn't the way to please them, and in the end, there are obviously more of them. If you know you're good, and other skinners know you're good, should you care if you (or people *you* think are good) get in the top ten?
Jafo
Reply #28 Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:40 PM
Reply #28 Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:40 PM
TheGreenReaper...prostitution can be Art, but maybe Art shouldn't be prostituted....
Some of us here tried a simple experiment which succeeded all too well, sadly. Get a wall...add 'XP' to it, and observe.
This showed an obscene fascination out there for all things 'XP', irrelevant of the artistic content or merit.
It didn't matter too much whether it was a truly talented artist or just me doing it....the results were commensurate.
Now, should walls, skins, and themes, be driven by consumer demand or by individual artistic creativity?
The problem with XP walls and OS ports is at best, they can show technical ability and at worst they show no imagination at all....
Some of us here tried a simple experiment which succeeded all too well, sadly. Get a wall...add 'XP' to it, and observe.
This showed an obscene fascination out there for all things 'XP', irrelevant of the artistic content or merit.
It didn't matter too much whether it was a truly talented artist or just me doing it....the results were commensurate.
Now, should walls, skins, and themes, be driven by consumer demand or by individual artistic creativity?
The problem with XP walls and OS ports is at best, they can show technical ability and at worst they show no imagination at all....
GreenReaper
Reply #29 Sunday, June 24, 2001 8:03 PM
Reply #29 Sunday, June 24, 2001 8:03 PM
>Now, should walls, skins, and themes,
>be driven by consumer demand or by
>individual artistic creativity?
Nothing's driving them anywhere. If you want to look for skins that are in line with demand, go to the top 10 downloads. If you want to go by creativity . . . well, that's hard to judge, though I'm sure you could do it by having some people rate them and have a top 10 rated skins.
But as to what I think in this case, yes, I don't see that there's any problem in people giving other people what they want. If they don't appreciate the difference between good and bad art, does it really matter? They're happy, and that's part of what the skinner wanted to achieve, so everyone's happy.
>be driven by consumer demand or by
>individual artistic creativity?
Nothing's driving them anywhere. If you want to look for skins that are in line with demand, go to the top 10 downloads. If you want to go by creativity . . . well, that's hard to judge, though I'm sure you could do it by having some people rate them and have a top 10 rated skins.
But as to what I think in this case, yes, I don't see that there's any problem in people giving other people what they want. If they don't appreciate the difference between good and bad art, does it really matter? They're happy, and that's part of what the skinner wanted to achieve, so everyone's happy.
Jafo
Reply #30 Sunday, June 24, 2001 10:27 PM
Reply #30 Sunday, June 24, 2001 10:27 PM
But should skins and walls be a product of supply and demand?
Should they be subject to the vagaries of pop-culture?
Are we doing this to be popular, or for ourselves?
Why am I asking so many questions?....
Should they be subject to the vagaries of pop-culture?
Are we doing this to be popular, or for ourselves?
Why am I asking so many questions?....
Nuvem
Reply #31 Monday, June 25, 2001 12:11 AM
Reply #31 Monday, June 25, 2001 12:11 AM
the greenreaper, forcing people to like what I think is good???? from were did you got that ideia? I´m not forcing anyone here.
If Top ten was important to me, do you find that I would have deleted the wall? the piece was at 1º and I was 1º in top skin authors pool.Now if those thing were important to me why the hell did I made that?.
This started as a joke and ended as a protest, my personal protest, that's all.
Jafo, because there are many unanswered question:P
hey, guess what, Nicole called me begging to come back....doknow, I think I´m gonna play the hard to get here;)
If Top ten was important to me, do you find that I would have deleted the wall? the piece was at 1º and I was 1º in top skin authors pool.Now if those thing were important to me why the hell did I made that?.
This started as a joke and ended as a protest, my personal protest, that's all.
Jafo, because there are many unanswered question:P
hey, guess what, Nicole called me begging to come back....doknow, I think I´m gonna play the hard to get here;)
AJCrowley
Reply #32 Monday, June 25, 2001 12:27 AM
Reply #32 Monday, June 25, 2001 12:27 AM
I think I mentioned this in another thread, and it still seems like a good idea on the whole. I assume that a large percentage of the people here have the full OD suite, so why not allow artists to release things in packs, or collaborate with other artists to release packs, that way, we could have a single XP ObjectBar pack with all 30 colours in, or a total XP pack with wallpaper, OB, WB, DX, whatever. This would certainly cut down on the crap, and just as a note to Jafo and Nuvem, your theory was not proven completely, though the XP-utnik received a huge response, my "Dear God, Please make the XP themes stop" wallpaper only got around 20 downloads. I have taken note for next time that some ultra L337 lens flares are in order. Hooray for photoshop filters.
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Reply #21 Friday, June 22, 2001 7:43 AM
OB section went down to 22 from 30 in the last 2hrs. And all the removed were XP themes...
good