I GIVE UP
Monday, August 9, 2004 by I.R. Brainiac | Discussion: Skinning
I have just wasted hours and hours with Skinstudio......graphics that wont change,graphics that change for no reason,undo dosnt work,no backups,toolbar icons that wont apply,skins that get broke and cant be fixed,multiple copies of the skin showing up,import features that wont import,.tga's not working right,edit a file and save it it dosnt change.... >
> >
to hell with this,I'm gonna watch TV
[Message Edited]
> >to hell with this,I'm gonna watch TV
[Message Edited]
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SelfExiled
Reply #2 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:33 AM
That night be your biggest problem. Always back up the skin yourself. When you get something right, export it. Backup your images too. I always save them as psp and then create a png file for SS. This way if the PNG somehow gets messed up, I always have safety. I normally create one big file and develop my images there. I might have three or four copies of the same image in a file that I am working on. My toolbar file actually ends up with 100 layers. I save and backup every step when I create images. If I create a new idea, I save the whole file as StartMenuwrk2a or something like that. I actually have 15 or 16 start menu files before I am finished. Some of the time the whole idea is scratched. But other times I can use my developed file to fix things along the way. I never rely on Skin Studio to fix my image problems. Just a suggestion. Hope this helps.
Reply #2 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:33 AM
| no backups |
That night be your biggest problem. Always back up the skin yourself. When you get something right, export it. Backup your images too. I always save them as psp and then create a png file for SS. This way if the PNG somehow gets messed up, I always have safety. I normally create one big file and develop my images there. I might have three or four copies of the same image in a file that I am working on. My toolbar file actually ends up with 100 layers. I save and backup every step when I create images. If I create a new idea, I save the whole file as StartMenuwrk2a or something like that. I actually have 15 or 16 start menu files before I am finished. Some of the time the whole idea is scratched. But other times I can use my developed file to fix things along the way. I never rely on Skin Studio to fix my image problems. Just a suggestion. Hope this helps.
SelfExiled
Reply #3 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:35 AM
Reply #3 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:35 AM
I understand your feelings with the short comings of Skin Studio though. How do they say it? "I've been there, done that?" 
NightTrainthedark
Reply #4 Monday, August 9, 2004 6:03 AM
Reply #4 Monday, August 9, 2004 6:03 AM
Hang in there IR. Twice I took a skin back to the very beginning because I could not get SKS to cooperate. Sometimes when you create a skin the file is corrupted from the beginning and things just go completey frikin nuts from there. If a skin starts to do wierd things, rename it and start from there. It has saved me hours and hours of time. The other day I saved a skin for someone to take a look at and thew entire thing was corrupted. I did the exact same procedure in renaming it again and it was perfectly fine. Go figure. Its real fun when buttons (title bar) change configuration all on their own. Yes ALL ON THEIR OWN!
Jafo
Reply #5 Monday, August 9, 2004 9:45 AM
Reply #5 Monday, August 9, 2004 9:45 AM
6 days to convince one single line of code to draw a shortcut image in LS......there are 491 lines of code.....tell me about patience and frustration.....
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #7 Monday, August 9, 2004 10:05 AM
Reply #7 Monday, August 9, 2004 10:05 AM
Snowman...when the going gets tough?Patience is my middle name(ok,its really Jeffery).Remember,you asked for detail...hehe...(I restarted programs or rebooted for all of these issues)
1.Taskbar image alignment issues.All images were created same height,yet some would line up fine while others would display 1 pixel lower(a WB,Windows issue probably)In SS,same images would sometimes display in the preview correctly,but be wrong once applied.Some would display incorrectly in the preview but once applied would be right.Time to complete Taskbar trippled.
2.Imported toolbar icons had their filenames altered to the point you couldnt tell which file SS was using.Editing them to increase their level of transparency would have no effect.A newly edited and saved file would not show any change.Had to import it as a new image each time.Still no change until applying a different skin then reapplying the one I was working on.Image would randomly switch to the wrong set of icons even tho the code was pointing to the correct set.Hours lost and they STILL are not right.
3.Importing a combo box graphic resulted in NO graphic being used at all,just the unskinned version.Saved the skin with a new name and continued on.(multiple copies of the first skin showed up in WB tho)Over an hour lost but going again.
4.Max button now minimising even tho the code is correct.(unload WB and reload,works for a while,do it again,works for a while...etc...)
5.tga's not transparent but not with the black edges.(Just not not translucent,never had this prob before)Background cant be seen thru the graphic.Hours wasted,still not resolved.
6.Took advantage or the Toolbar like items feature to get different buttons from the normal toolbar buttons.But when I went onto add the normal buttons they deleted the toolbar like buttons.(only image I had for that was the single PS image for the original button which has to be altered 4 more times to create the image states...its a complicated setup involving translucency and content margins)Text settings specific to that button were overwritten.Hours gone...will have to start from scratch,but still dont know if it will work.
Where are the backups SS claims to create and why dosnt the undo feature work.....that would have saved me a ton of grief.
Adam does respond to newsgroup post but the delay while working on something is frustrating and turns a month long process into an even longer one(plus sometimes there isnt a solution other than uninstall the programs and try a different version and start all over...too much time is being spent chasing solutions that could be spent joyfully skinning.I do this to relax from a hard days work.....go figure.
[Message Edited]
1.Taskbar image alignment issues.All images were created same height,yet some would line up fine while others would display 1 pixel lower(a WB,Windows issue probably)In SS,same images would sometimes display in the preview correctly,but be wrong once applied.Some would display incorrectly in the preview but once applied would be right.Time to complete Taskbar trippled.
2.Imported toolbar icons had their filenames altered to the point you couldnt tell which file SS was using.Editing them to increase their level of transparency would have no effect.A newly edited and saved file would not show any change.Had to import it as a new image each time.Still no change until applying a different skin then reapplying the one I was working on.Image would randomly switch to the wrong set of icons even tho the code was pointing to the correct set.Hours lost and they STILL are not right.
3.Importing a combo box graphic resulted in NO graphic being used at all,just the unskinned version.Saved the skin with a new name and continued on.(multiple copies of the first skin showed up in WB tho)Over an hour lost but going again.
4.Max button now minimising even tho the code is correct.(unload WB and reload,works for a while,do it again,works for a while...etc...)
5.tga's not transparent but not with the black edges.(Just not not translucent,never had this prob before)Background cant be seen thru the graphic.Hours wasted,still not resolved.
6.Took advantage or the Toolbar like items feature to get different buttons from the normal toolbar buttons.But when I went onto add the normal buttons they deleted the toolbar like buttons.(only image I had for that was the single PS image for the original button which has to be altered 4 more times to create the image states...its a complicated setup involving translucency and content margins)Text settings specific to that button were overwritten.Hours gone...will have to start from scratch,but still dont know if it will work.
Where are the backups SS claims to create and why dosnt the undo feature work.....that would have saved me a ton of grief.
Adam does respond to newsgroup post but the delay while working on something is frustrating and turns a month long process into an even longer one(plus sometimes there isnt a solution other than uninstall the programs and try a different version and start all over...too much time is being spent chasing solutions that could be spent joyfully skinning.I do this to relax from a hard days work.....go figure.
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #8 Monday, August 9, 2004 2:35 PM
Actually, it seems that they are one and the same thing. I know that you've seen my newsgroup posts too.
Do you really think this problem is solveable? You and I both know, its a roll of the dice. Seven wins.
I just figure that it'll show up tommorrow. I'm serious. I didn't feel like rebooting my whole computer to see the change today.
I.R. Brainiac. You have issues my friend. Too many issues. Be very careful, now. Throwing the computer into a wall,IS NOT A SOLUTION!!
Reply #8 Monday, August 9, 2004 2:35 PM
| too much time is being spent chasing solutions that could be spent joyfully skinning |
Actually, it seems that they are one and the same thing. I know that you've seen my newsgroup posts too.
| In SS,same images would sometimes display in the preview correctly,but be wrong once applied.Some would display incorrectly in the preview but once applied would be right.Time to complete Taskbar trippled. |
Do you really think this problem is solveable? You and I both know, its a roll of the dice. Seven wins.
| Editing them to increase their level of transparency would have no effect.A newly edited and saved file would not show any change |
I just figure that it'll show up tommorrow. I'm serious. I didn't feel like rebooting my whole computer to see the change today.
I.R. Brainiac. You have issues my friend. Too many issues. Be very careful, now. Throwing the computer into a wall,IS NOT A SOLUTION!!
SelfExiled
Reply #9 Monday, August 9, 2004 2:39 PM
Jafo, I'm still waiting to see the Skin Studio manual that you referred me too. Remember, "RTFM"? I'd like to show it to I.R. Brainiac now. Maybe it could help him too. 
[Message Edited]
Reply #9 Monday, August 9, 2004 2:39 PM
| 6 days to convince one single line of code to draw a shortcut image in LS......there are 491 lines of code.....tell me about patience and frustration..... |
Jafo, I'm still waiting to see the Skin Studio manual that you referred me too. Remember, "RTFM"? I'd like to show it to I.R. Brainiac now. Maybe it could help him too.
[Message Edited]
PixelPirate
Reply #10 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:33 PM
I really could use that tip now. But how do you exactly do that? Just click save as in SS and name it different or edit the files in the skin folder manually? Clicking save as in SS didn't help me out
I've just begun a new skin and it's already teasing. The pulldownmenu shows correctly in the preview, but applied it's corrupt, just the default classic look shows. Also the MenuBarItems doesn't work all of a sudden, it uses the unskinned colors instead, but I'm suspecting it's because it can't use a tga for that. Damn these limitations.
Reply #10 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:33 PM
| If a skin starts to do wierd things, rename it and start from there. |
I really could use that tip now. But how do you exactly do that? Just click save as in SS and name it different or edit the files in the skin folder manually? Clicking save as in SS didn't help me out
I've just begun a new skin and it's already teasing. The pulldownmenu shows correctly in the preview, but applied it's corrupt, just the default classic look shows. Also the MenuBarItems doesn't work all of a sudden, it uses the unskinned colors instead, but I'm suspecting it's because it can't use a tga for that. Damn these limitations.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #11 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:40 PM
Reply #11 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:40 PM
Pixel Pirate,
I ran into the prob with the drop down menus on my last skin. It was easy fix once I asked in the newsgroups, Go to system metrics in the left tree, right tree disable flat menus. While working on my skin the setting changed all on its own. I ceratinly didn't change it. Give it a try.
When saving a skin do a save as and rename the skin. Then after you delete the old version you can then rename it again to get the original name if so desired. Make sure the skin is working ok before deleting the old. If there is a substyle you will have to import the substyle seperately since SKS won't save the main skin and the substyle all in one file. It can be tricky but not that tricky. Hope it all works.
I ran into the prob with the drop down menus on my last skin. It was easy fix once I asked in the newsgroups, Go to system metrics in the left tree, right tree disable flat menus. While working on my skin the setting changed all on its own. I ceratinly didn't change it. Give it a try.
When saving a skin do a save as and rename the skin. Then after you delete the old version you can then rename it again to get the original name if so desired. Make sure the skin is working ok before deleting the old. If there is a substyle you will have to import the substyle seperately since SKS won't save the main skin and the substyle all in one file. It can be tricky but not that tricky. Hope it all works.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #12 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:43 PM
Reply #12 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:43 PM
BTW, Tgas dont work for the menu bar items. Thats why I had those corners on my last skin you picked up on. I was trying for the rounded effect and obviously failed with that attempt.
PixelPirate
Reply #13 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:51 PM
Reply #13 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:51 PM
It worked NT, always there to the rescue You know, you should get yourself a superhero alias, oh wait you already have 
However a new issue has occured the image includes magic pink in order to have a different design of the shape, but it doesn't work. It looks ok in the preview, but applied the pink parts are there
You know, you should get yourself a superhero alias, oh wait you already have 
However a new issue has occured the image includes magic pink in order to have a different design of the shape, but it doesn't work. It looks ok in the preview, but applied the pink parts are there
NightTrainthedark
Reply #14 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:58 PM
Reply #14 Monday, August 9, 2004 3:58 PM
Yeah, the menus and items don't support transparency yet. You have to work with rectangles and try to fake it if you want rounded edges. Thanks for the boost but superhero status is a ways down the road. For now I will settle for Journeyman.
PixelPirate
Reply #15 Monday, August 9, 2004 4:12 PM
Reply #15 Monday, August 9, 2004 4:12 PM
Damn again. Another setback for creativity, so I'm stuck with squares. Actually I didn't want rounded edges but alternative squares that went downwards in a 45 degree angle in the corners. Well thanks for enlightening me again NT
crissy14
Reply #16 Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:20 AM
Reply #16 Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:20 AM
I feel for you I.R. I've spent close to a week now trying to get the menu bar and drop down menus to skin. They just WON'T no matter what I do! I can't get the top window frame to tile properly, and the start panel log off/shut down buttons won't work. I dont think I've ever had this much trouble before! But, we've got to hang in there! If I get too frustrated, I give it a rest, and go back to it later with a fresh attitude.
PixelPirate
Reply #18 Monday, August 16, 2004 12:38 PM
Reply #18 Monday, August 16, 2004 12:38 PM
Airlock uses tga's for the Pull Down Item and Bar Items. And does it without problems. I can't get it to work though. I think I'm with I.R. on this, gonna give it a rest.
Jafo
Reply #19 Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:23 AM
Reply #19 Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:23 AM
| Jafo, I'm still waiting to see the Skin Studio manual that you referred me too. Remember, "RTFM"? I'd like to show it to I.R. Brainiac now. Maybe it could help him too. |
If it's un-bloody-documented do what any person with a brain does....trial and error.
So what if it took 6 days....I MADE it work by solving the problem myself.
It's called 'skinning'....it's not called 'painting by numbers'.
Alternate Setting
Reply #20 Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:40 AM
Reply #20 Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:40 AM
Ya see IR, this is why I keep on trying to lay pixels down - it gets you away from stress and into a like-minded community.
Mind you the cost is sometimes higher than I think I'm willing to pay
(Definitely gonna have to change this nick)
| #14 by Skinner NightTrain2002 - 8/9/2004 3:58:25 PM I will settle for Journeyman. |
Mind you the cost is sometimes higher than I think I'm willing to pay
(Definitely gonna have to change this nick)
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Reply #1 Monday, August 9, 2004 2:08 AM
Thats the spirit, quitting when then going gets tough.
(might help if you detailed your problems a bit)