I hate to say it Lantec...but the economy is going to get a lot worse before it even begins to get any better. And we are NOT in a recession...we ARE in a depression...let's call it what it is. And the ones to blame for this is "everyone." No one is blameless! Bush may be an asshole...but at least he got off his ass and did something...even if it was misguided...and everyone let him. People have become fat and lazy and only concerned about getting rich quick..."It's my money and I want it now!" Throwing money at failed banks is just crazy. Voting for novelty presidents is even crazier! When I hear the reasons why someone votes a president into office it makes my skin crawl...it has nothing to do with the issues and has everything to do with how they dress...who they screwed...how cute is the wife...what dress she's wearing...stupid reasons for voting someone into office...it's just insanity! Going to war with no clear agenda in hand is crazy. Giving billions of dollars to countries to help rebuild them that they just loose is crazy. Continuing a pointless drug war that has surely failed is crazy. Not reining in insurance companies that just rip people off is crazy. The list goes on and on and really the only ones to blame are the people for allowing it to continue. Allowing illegal immigrant to flow over our borders unchecked is crazy. And on and on it goes.

Here's some forgotten words by some great leaders and men that cared that still ring true today. These words should be pinned to everyone's walls so they don't forget.

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
~ Charles A. Beard ~

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within. The essential cause of Rome's decline lay in her people, her morals, her class struggle, her failing trade, her bureaucratic despotism, her stifling taxes, her consuming wars..."
~ Will Durant - (American historian - 1944) ~

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will. Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they have resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress."
~ Frederick Douglas ~

"If there be a principle that ought not to be questioned within the United States, it is that every man has a right to abolish an old government and establish a new one.
~ James Madison ~

"There will never be a free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly."
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

No one stands up to fight for these things anymore...they just grumble and go back to their safe little lives. We need a serious revolution in this country if we are going to take it back and get on the right track. We need to get politics out of our lives and bring these politicians back to working for us and not against us. This almost rockstar status they seem to hold is nauseating and it needs to stop. Voting themselves a raise need to stop. How would you like your employees doing that! We need to create an environment in Washington where "they" fear loosing their jobs every day...not us. I know I'm wasting my time saying all thee things because no one cares. But I am absolutely disgusted with the people in this county anymore. I'm sick and tired of hearing how some president fixed this or that when they haven't done shit. The people of this country are the ones that make things happen...not one single man. New laws being written because "one person" has a gripe needs to stop. Old laws that are being ignored need to be enforced! Politicians (civil servants) need to be held accountable to the highest standards and punished under the strictest laws for failing to serve the people. Government incomes need to be held to the same standard of living as the rest of us. When was the last time you got a raise? During the period from 1975 to about 1999 congress got an increase of pay that went from $44,600.00 to $157,105.00!! Has anyone else's income increased that much during that time!? And we work a hell of a lot harder than they do!!! What the hell is wrong with people!?

 The National Debt Clock. Watch your kids futures go down the toilet in real time! http://www.usdebtclock.org/ If you listen close you can hear the giant sucking sound!

"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
~ Thomas Reed - (Speaker of the House of Representatives - 1886) ~

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
~ President John F. Kennedy ~

"Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty; it is a blessing that must be earned before it can be enjoyed."
~ Charles Colton ~

"I heartily accept the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; ... Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe -- 'That government is best which governs not at all'; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government they will have."
~ Henry David Thoreau ~

As far as the job market there is absolutely no reason for unemployment! We have a situation right now regarding our future fuel and transportation needs and we have numerous things at our disposal that can and will solve those problems and many more and put people back to work for a very long time. But because of the ignorance of politicians and the apathy of the people it will not get done and just continue to get worse. What's happening right now to our economy has been sanctioned by the people...yet they still do nothing to stop it. We also have a failing infrastructure happening across the country....put people to work fixing it! It's not like we don't have any jobs out there...they just don't want to spend the money to do it. We need to stop this idea that government is going to fix our problems! They caused the problem!!!!! And we helped!!!! Hello!!!! Is anybody home!????

OH! I didn't cause this! I had nothing to do with this! I didn't do a thing! Right...the people didn't do a damn thing to stop this. So....how's that working out for everyone? Hey...I hear cat food is going on sale soon....better stock up!

"Before their thunder roars, there is a period of anticipation, in which more occurs than the literal minded tyrant can ever understand. A few overt acts of sedition shatter the heavy peace. But the greater force, unrecognized, rolls forward in near silence, as millions of individuals quietly withdraw their consent from the state. The pundits call it apathy. They could not be more wrong."
~ Claire Wolfe (101 Things To Do 'Til The Revolution) ~

"Those who seek to be truly free, must abolish any form of government which takes property from one in order to give to another, regardless of reason or rationale. Such a redistribution of wealth is little more than government sanctioned theft. Each man must be free to choose with whom he will share his time, his energy, his friendship, and the fruits of his labor as he sees fit. Government coercion and intervention in these areas is nothing less than tyranny."

"The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of the oppression, if they are strong enough, whether by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable."
~ Ulysses S. Grant - "Personal Memoirs" (1885) ~

Viva Le revolution! Hey...the Simpsons are on! The revolution can wait!

Oh...and in the last 19 months I lost my job of 22 years...(working disabled for 3)...due to the economy and that people can't even afford a newspaper anymore.

I think the answer will not be found in either the left or right, Democrate or Republican or Liberal of Conservative form of thinking.  At sometime this country is going to have to get back to the premise of 'what's right and good for the country' instead of all the little special interests groups.  Unfortunatley that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Exactly!

An interesting read...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy-2010-08-10

I agree WebGizmos and Philly.  Pas, we're friends but you need to open up your eyes/mind more.

Bush isn't without blame, but Barney Frank and his allies are the ones who created the sub-prime mortgage mess which led to the downfall.  Blaming tax cuts, which pulled us out of the last Clinton recession were needed and effectively helped the economy more than anything.  You can talk about invisible surpluses all you want, the fact is the current occupant of the White House has outspent 8 years of Bush in one single day.

My end of the "change" has been to spend less, because everything costs more.  Am I part of the problem?  Sure.  My money isn't going into the market because I can't afford to put it there.  It's a tired circle.  Raise the price of milk, I cut back on intake of milk, making the price of milk raise because some bastard feels like he isn't making enough of a profit.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I think I'll just buy more guns for when the zombies take over. 

I'm not about to defend the policies of the past. I don't care how we got here. I want to see us moving forward with ACTUAL recovery. It seems to much of what gets passed today is intended to benefit some political contributor or the unions or further the progressive/socialist agenda.

I also disagree with the 8 years thing....It's been going on since the mid 70's. Deficit spending shouldn't happen ever. The only time I agree with it is in the event of war and even then they should have a plan to recoup.

even I get deflected.....

Again I'm looking for (good or bad) stories of "Change you can believe in" there's already plenty of right vs left threads going.

You mean they haven't already?

dog, frank couldn't do near as much damage as what 8 years of an idiot as pres and a crook as vp could do. i'm sorry you watch faux news. even ailes says faux isn't a news organization but is an entertainment org. you may want to add in the costs of two wars into bush's budget and see how they compare to obama's. keep in mind, bush never included the costs of fighting two wars in his budgets whereas obama does. was it bush or cheney who said deficits aren't bad? i think it was cheney. your bush tax cuts added to the deficit and did very little for the economy, if anything at all. it seems the tea party nuts want a return to the reagan years. things weren't good under reagan. have they forgotten reagan raised taxes 6 out of 8 years? i get moody everytime i drive on the ronald reagan expressway in indy.

lantec, things haven't changed for me one iota. i've been disabled for years. i wish the docs would allow me to work but as they won't. i'm always asked if i want to keep my leg or not. i choose to keep it.

wom, i opened my eyes and mind far too wide during the bush admin and hated everything i saw. i didn't like bush when he was gov of texas and liked him less as pres. and you're right. we are friends

Lantec, sorry to hear that you had to close your business.

we moved from CA to NC in 2006 for various reasons but one of them was so that I could retire, quit travelling and be a stay at home dad. I am now drawing SS and my son receives a stipend also as he is under eighteen (his college fund). my wife still works for her CA company and thank goodness has health insurance. I'm having a hip replacement at the end of the month.

so today, were doing good. don't know about tomorrow....

so he had to write a check to make up the difference for eight years of loss, and................

How's that "change" working for ya?

Seriously, about like the "changes" in 1988, 1992, 2000, and presumably about like the next "change" of whenever/whatever.  The only changes of any significance I've ever seen in my life are when I've changed something.

I know that sounds hokey but it's the truth.  Screw the politicians.  Just try to pick the ones that might do the least damage, and try to keep them from sucking out more taxes.

Who controlled Congress and added their pork to the bills which increased the deficit?  Without their consent and approval the deficit left by Bush wouldn't be anywhere near what it was.  Now they have complete control and look at your deficit now.

In case you don't get it, Congress approves the bills.  The President just signs them into law.  During the Bush Presidency it was the Democrat Congress that had control of the purse strings.  If they were so concerned about the deficit they could have just said no.

mine was a little tongue in cheek. however, I do think the republicans screwed the pooch and got caught with their paws in the cookie jar.

pork? they all do it, where have you been. remember the bridge to nowhere.

regardless of which side of the aisle you're on, there aren't many good politicians.

Ya when Bush/Cheney went in the Republicans controlled everything.  People got so cranked off they voted them out.

Same thing could happen to Dems this time.  Short memories.

Mostly self-serving bags of advertising as far as I'm concerned.

Nope! That won't work because President Obama is going to cut military spending over the next five years because we cannot keep spending what we don't have.  That man walked into the biggest mess I've ever seen in my life - and I've seen some tough ones.  He did not create the housing collapse nor did he get us into Iraq and Afghanistan.  You can thank Bush for that.  President Obama did not vote to dump all of the regulations designed to protect average people.  You can thank Bush and friends for that too. 

We are now getting out of Iraq and we need to get out of Afhanistan.  We cannot win in Afghanistan.  If anyone can find a copy, I highly recommend a book written by Dan T. Moore called, "The Game."  It is about Afghanistan and written by a man who knew the country.  Dan Moore served in the OSS during WWII.  It's quite an eye opener.  Dan Moore said that only locals could win a war in Afghanistan.  There are literally hundreds of miles of tunnels through the mountains from Afghanistan into Pakistan.  Outsiders could never find their way through the many hidden doorways, passages and traps but they are a veritable open highway for Osama bin Laden and friends.  At one time, I worked part-time for Dan T. Moore.  He was a fascinating, highly intelligent individual. I read in an article that the CIA uses his book as a primer but not sure if that is actually true.  If it's not, it should be! 

This time I survived unscathed.  But back in 1989 and 1990 I worked in the DoD market.  When President Clinton closed all those bases, the DoD market went plop!  In northern Massachusetts and New Hampshire, many people lost their jobs.  There were whole streets of boarded up houses and engineers drove around with their resumes mounted on their vehicles. 

One day, I went to the supermarket with my two children.  There was a man at the entrance with a sign that read, "Wife and three children.  Will work for food."  He wasn't a bum.  I recognized him.  He was a former engineer with Sanders Lockheed.  That day I knew the time had come to get out of New England.  I called my family, packed up our stuff and moved to Florida.  It took almost nine years for me to rebuild my life  - for the third time. 

I've learned one thing that has sustained me through the rough times.  When the sky looks its deepest black, it is just before the dawn.  We will get through this - beaten, battered and wrung out maybe but, by God, we WILL get through it.  It's time to quit fighting, rebuild our economy and get Americans back to work.  I want to buy goods Made in the USA.  There was a time when Made in the USA meant you were buying the very BEST.  We need to put Americans back to work and we need to start manufacturing goods in THIS country again. 

It's time to bring back MADE WITH PRIDE IN THE USA!       

Bush and his cronies threw a party for 8 years and you're blaming the guy who got stuck with the check.