Blog: Aero Skinning, Modelers, and unorthodox skinning...

Wednesday, September 15, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News

Has anyone noticed that the quality of WindowBlinds visual styles has improved lately? There's been some really great stuff coming from people like MikeB, Boxxi, and many others. With WindowBlinds 4.4 now out for registered/Object Desktop users, it's a perfect storm of good things for users (like me) who are really into this stuff.

One of the internal debates right now is whether to support Aero-style semi-transparencies in borders. We don't know how well it could be done without affecting performance. There's still lots of people who argue (incorrectly) that WindowBlinds is "slow" despite the fact it's faster than what's built into Windows XP.  I can guarantee that there's be some performance hit on all but the latest video cards for semi-transparent borders. It would be non-trivial to go and do this well. My personal feeling is I'd like to see shadows in WindowFX made more seamless. How many of you run with shadows on all the time? If not, why? I don't because I feel (maybe wrongly) that they slow down my computer. I think the first quest is to find a way to make shadows perfect as long as you have a high end video card that has proper drivers. That would be the proof of concept. I do agree that semi transparent window title bars and borders might be cool.  And I have no doubt lots of people would like the feature. The question is merely whether it's feasible or not.

Meanwhile, things are crazy at the office as usual. We're working on buying a building. Right now, we lease our building over in Livonia Michigan. But this Winter, we hope to migrate to a brand new building we're buying. We're very excited about it.  Once we're over there, we'll have more room to start hiring more peple.

Speaking of hiring, we're still in a bit of a world of pain in the art department. We really need a senior level 3D modeler, preferably one with some animation skills (i.e. someone with some serious experience). We have a fantasy strategy game in early development and we're really weak in the 3D modeling of organic things (trolls, orcs, elves, etc.).  So if you know anyone whose really good at modeling things (and I mean really good -- we have good modelers already but we don't have ones who are experienced enough to make convincing organic things fairly quickly) then have them email me ([email protected]).  And no, you can't work from remote (we get a lot of people saying they're happy to work with us, for lots of money, as long as they can work from home, we need someone on hand).

We're working with SkinPlant on a really cool new skin suite called Unorthodox. The idea is to create some truly unique looking skins that approach GUI design from new angles. We hope to have that done by October.  Meanwhile, Mormegil is nearly done with the Utopia icon suite. It's a sequel to his popular Orion icon suite. He's been working on Utopia for over a year now. It's a huge undertaking as there are so many icons in it and he has strived to create something both unique as well as something you'd want to use.  We're hoping that'll come out in October as well -- 2 years after Orion.

Next week, WinCustomize subscribers will be able to start having their own personal pages via the new WC2K5 technology. WC2K5 won't be done next week for subscribers, just the personal home pages. But I think a lot of it will blow people away. The amount of "stuff" there is, frankly, incredibly cool. By the end of September, the beta of WC2K5 will be ready for subscribers.  The full WC2K5 will be a pretty dramatic departure from the WinCustomize of today. It'll be a tabbed interface. Things will be context driven. So when you go to the WindowBlinds library, you'll see the most popular WindowBlinds skins and WindowBlinds authors along with the most recent discussions about WindowBlinds and WindowBlinds tutorials. That's what would appear on the right bar instead of the same stuff on every page.  From a speed point of view, things are really different. Right now, everything on WinCustomize is database drive.  But in WC2K5, there will be a lot of pages cached so that performance should be much higher. 

On Object Desktop, two new components are about to go into alpha/beta -- RightClick should show up next week and Web Explorer (think Internet Explorer with a tabbed interface and some other goodies built in). 

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Septimus
Reply #21 Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:26 AM
Definately intrigued by Web Explorer, that could help a lot in work as we have to use it for some dev and tabbing would be nice

As to WB supporting Alpha borders, if you can do it and have the man power it would be a great ability to show off. Even if the caveat is that you HAVE to have high end graphics, then it at least gives those who have something new to play with.
c242
Reply #22 Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:40 AM
I would give my right arm for a sneak preview of Utopia...
Judge
Reply #23 Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:29 AM
I use WFX shadows all the time. WFX could be improved to use per-pixel alpha blending (i.e. 32 bit BMPs) - rather than interpreting the greyscale value as an alpha value.

However (as I'm sure you know) that isn't the same as having alpha-blended borders - i.e. I would want the window controls to be on the glassy part of the window.
Gollums
Reply #24 Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:41 PM
Um, kind of a change of subject, but you guys aren't leaving Livonia are you?
DesignCaddy
Reply #25 Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:44 PM
would like to see WB use shadows..

i havn't come across any skins with them currently in, so i use winfx.. on odly styled skins (like airlock) winfx doesn't display them properly
smoke-tetsu
Reply #26 Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:50 PM
I agree with judge about using 32-bit bitmaps for the shadows rather than interpreting the greyscale value as an alpha value. I would also like to define how many pixels a shadow is offset seperately for each side in the shadow to be able to do custom shadows for wb skins better. I have a theme which I plan on working on which is waiting for that feature.

I myself have also been wanting alpha blended (32-bit) borders as well for a long time this would enable antialiased titlebars which OSX has but most other systems have been sorely lacking. Also there is a certain theme which has the inactive titlebar transparent which could also use this. So please put this in, those people who don't want to use it don't have to.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #27 Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:55 PM
Two more things which WB has needed imo which I'm not sure it has now is visibility settings for the close button and more freeform toolbox borders. I'd lie to be able to have the size of the buttons on those and the border independent of each other and to be able to add\remove buttons there just like with the titlebar.
d3adz0mbie
Reply #28 Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:00 PM
If I understand this correctly, the only performance hit would be when Windowblinds is actually using a skin with transparency. It's not as if this would be implemented into WB and suddenly ALL skins would take a slight hit.

In my mind, that just gives us more options. More options for new themes, more options to update old themes and more options for the future of Windowblinds. Whats wrong with having more options to create when it doesn't hurt the abilities we already have?
Frogboy
Reply #29 Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:25 PM
smoke - WindowBlinds title bar buttons (including the close button) have all kinds of visibility conditions. You can have the close button hide and show under all kinds of circumstances.
Surj
Reply #30 Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:21 PM
if stardock is going to integrate the shadow thing and essentially wfx (since thats the most common use) into wb, i hope they leave it easy to turn off. it does have a large impact on my system when autocad or photoshop start getting overloaded. with wfx i just right click and unload it, and then bring it back up when my computer is out of the red again. if i had to use the properties window to bring it up its that much more my comp has to think about and render.
TasT
Reply #31 Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:50 PM
Web Explorer?

Will this be something like the Avant and MyIE browers? Just a slick shell over the IE rendering engine.
MogWaEE
Reply #32 Thursday, September 16, 2004 2:59 PM
My $0.2: I am a great fan of the new Aero look, so I would really like to see the option of having transparencies in wb skins. As I mentioned, this would only be an option and would open wb skins to a new world. Also, if you look at the numbers of downloads for the Luna skins before WinXP was out, you know there is a very high demand to emulate MS's new iteration GUI.

I sincerely hope you implement it!

While I'm at it, thumbs up for a great suite of apps! I've been using your soft for years now, and I have to admit that it's been the BEST purchases I've ever made! Thanks.
Mav Phoenix
Reply #33 Thursday, September 16, 2004 3:13 PM
Thornz, I think the shadows are GPU accelerated not CPU so those programs you mentioned shouldn't really be affected much, unless you have a really low end card. I could be wrong though.
Mav Phoenix
Reply #34 Thursday, September 16, 2004 3:17 PM
I just need to clarify some things, please point out any errors you see as I'm not perfect.

Aero = final presentation interface, we haven't seen this yet.
Avalon = the engine behind it all, also being ported to Windows XP and Server 2003.

LH themes we've seen so far = Plex, Slate, Jade, and this new "Glass" thing that is what we're talking about here with the transparent borders.
GhoS
Reply #35 Thursday, September 16, 2004 4:22 PM
Web Explorer sounds interesting. As much as I like Firefox, it is still an IE world overall and some sites I have to launch IE (or in my case Maxthon) to load them.
I would much prefer to use a Stardock program for that. Match its tabbed browsing together with SP2's popup blocking in IE, plus skinning and you got a winner. I'm not sure if I'd switch back to IE, but would at least use Web Explorer instead of Maxthon (too bulky but better than regular IE).
Surj
Reply #36 Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:28 PM
mav, both photoshop and acad have video acceleration options. theyre not the only programs i run anyhow, just the most used to. i also dabble with maya and use my machines to play games.

besides, the video acceleration isnt exclusive to the video card, your still using the rest of your system components.
Mav Phoenix
Reply #37 Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:49 PM
Thornz, I use PS, Premiere Pro, 3ds max, Illustrator, and game and never noticed the shadows slow anything down (I'm a game dev) in the least. What are your specs like?
Hippie
Reply #38 Thursday, September 16, 2004 6:11 PM
I use FX, but think it needs a little work, but overall, I like everything Object Desktop has. The new stuff sounds cool, and I'm interested in the Nature Desktop, but I think I'll wait awhile, till the bugs aree kinda eased out.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #39 Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:07 PM
Are the "only show close button if there is a close button" options in the previous version of WB? Or do I need the new version to have them.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #40 Thursday, September 16, 2004 7:12 PM
I coudln't find no such "show if window has a close button" or "show if a window doesn't have a close button" in skinstudio. Which versions of the software do you need to take advantage of that if it exists.

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