Editiorial: Are skinners abandoning originality in exchange for popularity?
Thursday, March 25, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
I was doing an article today on the history of WindowBlinds skinning. And I firmly believe that the vocal "minimalistic skinsa re king" crowd have really done real harm to skinning. I say that because skin authors seem to have become so afraid of making anything that isn't "minimalistic" because not only will they not be appreciated for being creative and original, they're likely to get flamed by the "Minimastic" brigade.
Let me show you some skins from 1999 so you can see what I mean in terms of originality.
This is old but when was the last time you saw a skin that tried to look like something other than "Look, it's another generic GUI"? Or at least done reasonably well?
This is from 2000! Sure there's OS skins in here too but look at that Allend Bond skin. Or Dangeruss's skin.
This is from Shoggot. His title bar blade actually rotated (animated) when it was the active window and the blade stretched as you increased the size of the window. I can't even remember the last time someone made a good animated title bar. And it's so easy. It's just frames of animation. Some little glowing effect or SOMETHING other than the usual gradients that everyone seems fixated on.
I believe that the reason for the lack of creativity these days is because of the obsession with downloads combined with fatigue from being flamed by the critics who will look at a skin that took 2 weeks to make and shrug it off "I won't use that crap" simply because it's not Windows Luna (but red) or some skin that looks like a slightly more minimalistic version of Luna.
Here's one from DAK from Russia released FOUR years ago.
When was the last time you saw a skin that used animation this clever? This Matrix skin by Mercury was made 4 years ago.
These two skins from Dangeruss, which are going on 5 years in age, show what skinning is all about. Creative and yet outstanding quality. These are the kinds of skins WindowBlinds was made for artistic freedom to create cool and interesting looking things. Little touches like semi-transparent scrollbars (how often do you see that these days?) and captions on the title bar buttons.
Many skin authors seem to be skinning more for popularity rather than for themselves. Back before skinning was so popular, popularity wasn't an issue - there just weren't enough peopel using this stuff. But now, skinning is not just popular, but with popularity comes..well criticism. The skins you see here took real work to make. But who wants to spend weeks on a skin only to have some anonymous user slam it because they think it's "gaudy".
I wish I had the talent to create good artwork like you see here because I would create "gaudy" skins (if these are "gaudy"). I would rather create a skin that is new and different than yet another "It's very much like Luna but the title bar is slightly smaller and it has a gradient..." (not that I'm not guilty of that myself since those kinds of skins take less time and will get more downloads.
The skins you see here are available on WinCustomize.com in the WindowBlinds section. Just look at Dangeruss, Mercury, D.A.K. and Allen Bond if you, as a skin author, want to see how these skins were made or if you, as a skin user, want to try them out (of course, since they were made before XP, not all of xP will be skinned with them).
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Reply #62 Friday, March 26, 2004 12:21 PM
Moshi- I don't agree with your assessment. I too hvae looked at the early skins.
I DO agree that Kaleidoscope's waning has been a hit on skinning in a big way because it was a huge source of innovation that's gone.
Dokt (andy) - There just aren't that many good msstyles out there. Yes, they tend to be minimalisic and there are some great ones by Kol and chaNinja and a few others. But what's your point?
The issue isn't what END USERS want. The question is what SKINNERS want. I am in full agreement that minimalistic skins are going to be more popular. We saw this long before msstyles hit the scene with the popularity of OS skins and OS-like skins.
But skinners also tended to try new things more in the past. But they don't do so as much now. Why? I contend, with considerable evidence from reading forums and comments, that skin authors get tired of getting critical, abusive comments when they do something that deviates from the Luna-esq design.
I like minimalistic skins too. But I also like to try out new and interesting things. Skinning is, ultimately, supposed to be fun too.
If, as you claim, skinning has matured, you would see MORE variety. Not less. This may come as a shock but some people, myself included, LIKE both minimalisic skins and "nausiating" skins like Driftwood (I'm running it right now). Look at the other responses in this thread. I'm not alone.
Reply #63 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:12 PM
our opinions are not that far away here. i agree with the locker room mentality on some forums. that often leads to the lowest common denominator. the (not much better) opposite is Wincustomize whene some people ask for an admin every time they get a honest rating or comment. so there are other skinners that produce horrible stuff since years that don´t bother to improve their graphics skills as they get enough "good job" comments from their friends anyways.
but the most important factor are individuals. the amount of people that can produce extraordinary stuff is limited. the only skin submitted to the GUI Olympics yet that would fit into that category is Hippy´s RalliArt. (Gabriel´s skin is amazing as well, but in a different manner)
it was luck that there were a few gifted people skinning at the same time. that can of course happen any time again. but more skinners only means more skins, not more good skins.
Reply #64 Friday, March 26, 2004 2:48 PM
Moshi - what we disagree on is not that there wasn't influence but that they were mostly ports. For instance, I was part of the "Galactica" controversy and Dangeruss's skin is not Galactica. You feel it is. But it's not. It shares similarity (and I don't want to get into it again, it was a huge pixel by pixel comparison). I believe that many ideas were borrowed from various sources but I don't agree that they were just wholsale copies.
I am very familiar with the Kaleidoscope library and was on the Kaleidoscope mailing list. You are right though, our opinions are not far away really. I believe that Enlightenment and Kaleidoscope increased the amount of innovation and that people regularly were inspired by the works of others.
BTW, would you be interested in writing an article on Linux skinning sometime? I'd feature it whereever I could because I do think that Linux gets a bit shafted in terms of credit for some of the innovation that goes on there.
Reply #66 Friday, March 26, 2004 4:59 PM
Reply #67 Friday, March 26, 2004 6:46 PM
Reply #68 Friday, March 26, 2004 7:08 PM
Reply #69 Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:44 AM
Reply #70 Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:57 PM
Reply #71 Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:45 AM
Reply #72 Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:29 PM
Reply #73 Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:35 PM
ShadowsKnight, Many of the great skins of the past predate "SkinStudio". "Builderblinds" for instance was a freeware program I downloaded years ago (Only to discover that I don't have the gift
). Many of the best, most creative skins were created by skin authors using graphics programs that have no association whatsoever with Stardock or Wincustomize. Generally you can find freeware to make skins and for many other applications. Also generally when you spend the money to BUY a program you are going to get an easier to use program with an easier to use interface with less bugs and better help file/support. This is true in every area of life. "TANSTAAFL" (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch). If you ues freeware you will not spend money BUT you will envest more time in learning to use the program/programs properly. I woulden't say you were cynical I would say you are unrealistic.Reply #75 Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:27 PM
Speaking of free, here's my free contest/idea list:
* April Contest: WindowblindsMovie based theme
* May Contest: (2 part) WindowblindsOS Minimalistic/OS General
* June Contest: BootskinsFantasy Based Bootskin
* July Contest: IconPackagerAnimated Icon packs
Etc. Although considering the number of programs Stardock offers, it might be an idea to run several contests for different things at the same time.
Also, to clarify, I'm not saying that Stardock should make skinstudio completely free, but I do think it should be included (the full pro version) with relevent purchased programs (ex: buy the full version of WB and SkinStudio should be included with it for no extra charge)
Overall what Stardock needs to do is get more involved with their community, beyond hosting some fourms/websites and expecting people to send them money.
Reply #76 Monday, March 29, 2004 1:40 AM
Two short points.
1. I respect your poverty due to the fact I am most likely as strapped as your are (I do own an OD subscription but I can count the number of programs I have actually purchased instead of going the freeware route on one hand). I have simply accepted the fact that my software may not do everything that I want it to do.
2. I don't think that Frogboys post had anything to do with selling programs. (At least not Skin Studio). Many of the low quality/creativity skins that are being discussed are being created using this program which makes it very easy to make a functional skin. Sadly being able to put a skin togeather does not mean it is creative or artistic.
2a. The last comment was not meant to discourage, and or irritate any skinners out there. Simply an honest acknowledgement that very few people are GREAT artists. This is the reason that we hold them in such high regard
Peace,
Dreww
Reply #77 Monday, March 29, 2004 11:20 PM
Ah....I'm one of those who does it for himself. Because I run LiteSTEP [no start bar] I never actually bothered with its skinning...no bloody reason to. My skins are for yours truly....anyone who wants them....that's fine too.
The buttons were put on the left [on some]....because they were therefore not on the right....not to look like anything else but to NOT look like the MS default.
My over-riding criteria was that a skin should not be high contrast...so while I was skinning pixel-per-pixel in PSP [and notepad]....without Builderblinds or SkinStudio....I wouldn't go blind....hence a preference for grey.
When WB skinning first started it was actually a challenge to see what could be done with the proggy....how far you could screw up the default....[documentation [or lack of] was just an added spice].
People should NOT be churning out 'perfect' copies of every other predictable skin but playing with unique concepts....particularly when this is mostly a hobby, not an industry. The only people perhaps 'forced' to toe a line are those commissioned professionals.....the rest 'should' be free spirits....
Reply #78 Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:13 PM
I now think this is just a case of nostalgia.
YES, there were SOME really great original skins back in the "good ol' days"...but there was an awful lot of insipid designs and herd mentality rehashing existing interfaces, and porting previous ideas. Go have a look and see for yourself. Ooodles of Mac clones, BEOS styles, and designs that hardly look that much different from the basic Windows design of the time, or are obviously just ports of previous Kaledescope type works.
I'd liken it to pop music. When we reach a certain age (harumph....cough), we tend to look back on the "proper music" of our youth with fond memories. We forget that week in, week out, the charts were filled with Bros, Kagagoogoo, Haircut 100 and Slade trying to make 1 more hit. What we remember are the "classics" which we danced, laughed, cried and fell in love to. It doesn't mean that every song in the 80's (in my case) was a classic - far from it...but when I hear Duran Duran now, I find myself thinking "Ahhh, see, proper music!" - even though I thought they were awful at the time!
...and yet, there is still good music being made today...the charts are mostly awful, but once a month or so an albumn comes out that's a "must have" still.
Interesting that music is driven in the charts by sales, and skins are seen to be driven to some extent by downloads - but there are always indi musicians making good stuff, and sometimes the stars making what used to be called "concept albumns" which they know won't make money but that they want to make...
So...I don't think there ever was a "golden age" of skinning. It just looks that way with the benefit of hidesight compressing months (even years) into a rose tinted snapshot. Look at the skins here made in the last 12 months, and you'll find oodles of really high quality, stylish, imaginative, skilled contributions - and now, they include animations, shell styles, sub skins, etc etc...
THESE are the golden days - skinning has never been better. More people making more skins with more ideas and more features. Rest assured that quality will always float to the top from the dross, and if it wasn't for the dross, we wouldn't realise just how good the REALLY good modern work is
So ends the case for the defence m'lud
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Reply #61 Friday, March 26, 2004 9:48 AM
i still think it´s more about individuals that put up extraordinary skins. my list here is probably shorter than anybody else´s.
but check for yourself. the percentage of "minimal" skins is not higher than it was in the beginning. it´s just that really cool stuff is lacking currently. but maybe if skinning does get more popular some real designers might get interested in it as well.
and yeah 3DCC rules