Boot Screens and other conundrums
Saturday, August 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Looking at this week's poll on sections people want, it is pretty obvious that people want Boot screens.
This puts WinCustomize into an odd position. Users often hear about "ripping" which is where someone takes another person's images and uses them in their own work without permission.
The problem with boot screens is that a "boot screen" is actually the Windows XP kernal, modified with new bitmaps, put into a ZIP file. Ignoring the support issues, there's the question: Is it okay for people to distribute the actual kernel of Windows XP in a zip file?
But this problem isn't just with boot screens. Logon screens often come with a replacement logonui.exe. It's the literal logonui.exe on your system that someone has modified and reuploaded. That's why WinCustomize's logon section uses LogonStudio because it has its own format .logonxp which allows people to make logons that don't have to include the actual logonui.exe.
And many "visual styles" that use .msstyles format include a file called shellstyles.dll which, again, is the literal .dll from a person's Windows directory.
In all these examples, these files are copyrighted by Microsoft. And I don't mean copyright in the same sense that an OS skin might be. I mean they are literally the code for the program. If Apple, for intance, gets mad about Aqua style skins on occasion, you can imagine how they would react if people were passing around the actual system files from MacOS X. Microsoft must be aware of this stuff but so far doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
As a skinning site, we want to have the kinds of sections people want to have. And in fact, every other major skinning site already has sections for these kinds of things. So we are torn on this situation. Our inclination is to put up a boot section since so many people want them and every other skin site already has them. But we're uneasy in doing this because of the potential copyright issues.
So that's where we are. Please no responses with "I don't know why anyone would want to replace their boot screen" or "We should put section X up instead." I think we can all agree that there is a large demand for boot screen. The question is what is the best course of action.
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Reply #42 Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:04 AM
My point was that it seems a lopsided trade-off just for a few short seconds of the boot process.
Reply #44 Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:39 AM
Giving us candy like that then thinking about taking it away lol
I'd go with ask Microsoft and see what they say.
Reply #45 Sunday, August 10, 2003 12:06 PM
Reply #46 Sunday, August 10, 2003 1:50 PM
I have spoken to Microsoft specifically about TGTSoft. Microsoft NEVER gave TGT Soft permission to release Style XP. Simply because they didn't sue them doesn't mean they approve of it.
But that really does require additional explanation:
In May 2001, Microsoft released a new beta of Whistler (Windows XP) that made it so that you couldn't use third party .msstyles. Within a few days, we had figured out how to get around that so that anyone could make their own .msstyles. We began making plans to update SkinStudio to support .msstyles and enhance WindowBlinds to use .msstyles as a new format.
But then Microsoft specifically asked us NOT to do that. For support and branding reasons, Microsoft didn't want third parties using .msstyles. So we didn't.
Think about that. Months before there was a uxtheme patch or a Style XP, we had this. The only reason why Style XP exists is because we adhered to Microsoft's wishes. And we've been paying for it ever since.
Fast forward 2 years and WinCustomize operates at a competitive disadvantage because it doesn't offer boot screens, logonui's, and .msstyles. And not only has Microsoft done nothing about it (and they know about this stuff) but their lack of action has given people the mistaken believe that Microsoft is "okay" with it.
Boot screens are a definite gray area. I tend to think of them as low level software piracy. Same for logonui's and .msstyles that include shellstyles.dll are iffy. Yet Microsoft knows about them and hasn't done anything about them.
Which of course brings us to this constructive discussion we have here.
Reply #47 Sunday, August 10, 2003 2:35 PM
But then again,we should be able to,after all we PAID for the new OS (or paid extra $$ for a new PC with it installed),and they disclaim any damage to your PC as a result of modification to the OS (don't they?).
Therefore it should be allowed,but we should also know the risks taken as a result of attempting to fix the OS to our tastes.
But as I've found out,it isn't just our tweaking that can ruin a PC-some of those updates Microsoft has can mess the computer up too-my dad's PC hasn't had any of my tweaks,but he's downloaded loads of updates on his nearly 2 GHZ PC,and now the system hangs so often it's ridiculous,not to mention the video card's driver seemingly has conflicts with some of those updates,resulting in it occasionaly failing and displaying in 16 color(that's 16,not 16 million!).So he has to reboot an awful lot.
I've only downloaded WMP 9 and SP1 on my 300 Mhz (I know that's VERY slow) but it's 160 Megs of RAM help make up,not to mention it's video card is better than the one in my newer computer that recently died(older one can display 32 color but newer one can't?? odd..) ,so my computer runs smoother and faster than my newer one did,and rarely hangs.
So I don't think it's always our fault if the OS crashes or goes awry,but I don't think it (usually?) helps.
And I am NOT suggest you risk your computer getting hacked,but instead crashes and hangs too much probably isn't that worth it.
Though I suggest a good firewall and update a lot will likely help anyway.
And sometimes the hotfixes make it worse!!!
Just my fill on this,I'll be surprised if you read it all.
p.s. Thanx to sig for posting that link,much appreciated
Reply #48 Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:24 PM
Reply #49 Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:31 PM
Reply #50 Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:29 PM
Reply #51 Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:47 PM
But at any rate, there's evidently no need to host screens that include the hacked .exe if images alone will do and such proggies (or the user manually) can apply them.
(BTW, FB, a rainlendar library would be nice too. My vote.
)
Reply #52 Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:57 PM
I'll reiterate that this need not hinge on IP. I'm not sure how you can distribute .exe files, hacked kernel files, without taking a large risk for users as well. Short of that, or Stardock creating a secure system for swapping them, it would just be a low-quality image section that few people would use. One also, as a 'flat'-image section, that would have to be moderated for mature content if not... well... other stuff.
...and what is the big deal about trillian??
Reply #53 Sunday, August 10, 2003 7:13 PM
It's some app for chatting with people on multiple kinds of messengers (MSN,Yahoo,AIM,etc.) using one program (I think,I may be getting this confused with something with a similar title,but I think that's it?)And apparantly it's skinnable.
I don't care for that,since I don't need it.
Reply #54 Sunday, August 10, 2003 7:54 PM
Reply #55 Sunday, August 10, 2003 7:57 PM
Reply #56 Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:53 PM
Reply #57 Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:18 PM
Just because they haven't done it before doesn't mean they won't start now.
Reply #58 Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:22 PM
Reply #59 Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:56 PM
Well I think the basic issue is that distributing DLLs and EXE's that don't belong to you is just plain wrong.
How can we object to rips wile people are distributing EXEs and DLLs made by other people?
The problem is two fold:
1) WinCustomize loses visitors to other skinning sites, particularly ones that don't support Stardock's apps and Stardock is the one who funds WinCustomize.
2) Microsoft has never done anything to stop boot screens (or msstyles) which has given people the impression that Microsoft is "okay" with it.
We want to do the right thing. But what is the right thing? The desires, needs of skinners and uesrs vs. the rights of Microsoft who may or may not care about this issue.
Reply #60 Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:45 PM
Therefore they can make good use of our tweaking to find loopholes in their system,so they can form ways to make to make it more stable too.
Microsoft,are you listening? Simple customization of the whole OS would be nice! Especially if the simple process is BUILT-IN!
Anyway,that could be why nothing has been said-They want to keep us pondering until their next OS.
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Reply #41 Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:36 AM
by craeonics Sunday, August 10, 2003
hehe dutchy...