Personally I think it's a joke...always did from day one. People really need to wake the hell up in this country and get theor collective heads out of their asses. I seriously don't understand the stupidity of people that keep wanting or thinking government is going to actually help them in any way, shape or form. You are more likely to get rectal cancer from all the smoke they blow up it than to actually get decent health care...from the government! Anyone must be sick to believe that!

It's about time...NO....it's long overdue that this country get seriously turned back around where the "elected government servants" start serving US instead of us becoming slaves and having our rights stripped away. It's the people of this country that made it and make it what it is...not these bozos in government that have become so use to people not caring that they just outright steal everything anymore...and get away with murder in our names!

Here's an idea! How about we say screw the insurance companies all together! We need to start an insurance company..."The Peoples Insurance Co."... run "by the people and for the people." Instead of paying the current insurance companies craploads of money only to get turned down when you need it...we need to start a public money pool that anyone can contribute to...and if you don't contribute you can stick with the crooks.

All records would be kept public and run by people elected by the people to run it...and they would be accountable for ever nickle and dime used. NO POLITICIANS can participate...they can stick with their own insurance...which from then on they have to pay for themselves like everyone else.And doctors would also be held accountable what they do as well.

Of course it wouold take some time to build up enough funds...but would you rather keep giving it to the crooks? I really think it can be done!

Oh! And how about that 700 billion and then some put aside for "future wars!" Ain't that a hoot! We're paying for future wars now! How stupid are people! 700 billion with a B!

But of course it will never happen...to much apathy in this country.

Damn! I think I just burst a vein in my neck!

Here's someone that is at least trying to make them accountable! http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage

You could go to either of the above sites and create a blog and then you might be able to self moderate this thread enough to keep it from being locked. Creating a blog allows you to delete offending replies from threads that you've authored and it also allows you to blacklist individuals that only wish to cause grief.

However when someone posts a topic such as this it's often the case that grief is the entire point of the thread and if so it's pretty much inevitable to either get locked or moved to Joe User usually sooner rather than later.

Anyway I'll throw my 2 cents in before it does get locked, but if you are serious about trying to keep this thread below the flame threshold that would cause it to be locked I highly suggest you create a blog at either of the sites I referenced toot sweet.

As far as the rest of your points I probably agree more than I disagree but I don't feel compelled to throw gasoline on the fire that you've already started.

Without the blog functionality I give the over/under on this thread to be 1 page of 25 posts before it's locked. Even with the blog functionality it probably doesn't have much hope of surviving, but good luck.

I sort of wondered how long it would take for someone to troll these waters. quite a bit of heated debate still rages inflamed by conservative rhetoric and insurance money influence. Would really like to see medical facilities and insurance companies be held accountable for their activities and fee structures.

anyhow, there can be no real health care reform without providing a public option to counteract insurance company and medical institution greed.

socialize medicine, good idea, one should not lose their home or spend their life savings when our inevitable major illnesses come about. face it, we will all end up dead somehow/sometime, should it also bankrupt us, leaving our loved ones without resources.

I'm sure it will be run just like all other government programs.....a huge beauracracy with very little actual work coming out of it. Considering how effectively run medicare and medicaid currently operate we can expect at least 60% of the funds to go to criminals.

Personally I believe in the America the founding fathers conceived. I do not consider socialism to be the American way or in our best interest. It's obvious the current leadership has embraced the same governing stlye that brought about the end of the Roman Empire. As I understand it right now something like 40% of the people pay the taxes that run the government. How is it right that 40% pay to care for themselves and the other 60%?

The gimme generation has taken over. It's no longer about personal responsibilty or what I can do for my Country and my family but what the Country can do for me. Gimme...gimme....it's mine....I've got a RIGHT to it....

There were some things that should have been done.....ability to purchase insurance across State Lines, not allowing the insurance companies to cancel policies of people after they become sick, elimination of pre-existing conditions and a pool insurance plan for those not able to join a group policy.......then fix all the waste and fraud in medicare and medicaid (although that last would likely cause civil unrest)

As far as the Tea Party.....even the far left liberals should believe in freedom of speech....but I guess that's only for those who agree with them. Politics attract nuts on both sides. Most of the recent "attacks" have turned out to be unfounded lies.....the black caucus had their own camera following them and they can't provide any video to back up their claims....however, there are quite a few OTHER public videos and stills which show nothing that backs up their statements.

SINGLE PAYER!!!        (and that's coming from a person with really good insurance. i've been anti-insurance company since my son had guillan-barre back in 1995)

1 opinion or words to be said is " The People Will Rise Up and Take Back This Country! Let Freedom Rebound!!!"

That's about it... Don't do much to say anything more. It's all the same!

It's a beginning. It ain't perfect and probably never will be but now there is something...'something' to build on and tweak, etc.

Keep those opinions coming!

just curious, not trolling. which speific government programs were you thinking of when you wrote this?

I don't have two cents that I can spare but I did receive an interesting e-mail from a friend that I'll share.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/connelly.asp

A retired Constitutional lawyer has read the entire proposed healthcare bill. Read his conclusions and pass this on as you wish. This is stunning!

 The Truth About the Health Care Bills - Michael Connelly, Ret. Constitutional Attorney 

Well, I have done it!  I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law.  I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying.  The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system.  All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals.  Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface.  In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices.  Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated  If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government.  The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with!  I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital.  All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures.  You can also forget about the right to privacy.  That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide...

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you.  It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law  It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea.  This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights...  Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation.  If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton , Texas

The government was never intended to be our nannies.  However, that is where we are headed.  They tell us what to eat, what to drink, what to learn, how to learn, where we can live, how we can live there...etc. etc. etc.  The sad thing is that we have allowed them to do all of this.  Our government is failing.  It is failing us and it will only get worse.  The Health Care Reform is a joke and it was used as a ploy to get this ass that we call our president in office.  They are taking away our freedoms, little by little and will soon control everything.  And we let them.

ok...just a couple ...but I could do this all day and not break a sweat.

Medicare - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22184921

Internal Revenue Service - http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/01/07/struggling-taxpayers-hurt-by-irs-collection-practices/

HUD - http://reason.org/news/show/federal-aid-didnt-fix-downtown

My personal opinion is that it may work, but it will take time as does everything with the federal government.  As a disabled verteran I receive full government medical care and have no complaints, government run health care can and does work in my case and for a lot of others as well.  As for people like Glenn Beck, I tried watching his show for 30 minutes the other day and finally had to just shut it off because he was giving me a severe headache.  I have never heard someone talk as much as he does and in the end have said so little!

Since it is quite evident that the private sector cannot control health care costs, someone needs to step in and take over and at least President Obama is trying.  People are dying needlessly every day because of the greed of current insurance companies and health care officials in this country, and don't even get me started on useless labor unions!

I truly feel that unless someone has a better plan to provide public healthcare for all, don't even bother saying anything at all about those who are trying because then you become part of the problem, and not the solution.

darn forum took too long to post! sorry

the bill will eventually run private insurance companies out of business according dpcloud's friend. well, folks, i can only hope that happens. if and when it does, i'll be rejoicing in the streets. i sincerely hope it does but it won't. it was not designed to do such a thing. i have said it for many years and i'll say it again: SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!!!!

darn...forgot to add this one......Dept of Energy...didn't exist before 1977. Jimmy Carter institutes it with the mandate to reduce our dependency on oil/gas. 1976 budget 0$ 2010 budget 26.4 BILLION dollars......anyone here think we've reduced our dependency on oil? anyone?

they can't even meet their own standards... http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2009/06/08/energy-department-fails-its-own-energy-audit/

possibly not an entirely unbiased letter.

I live in Canada so I've had Health Care since I was born. When I was younger (1976) I suddenly developed acute appendicitis. I wasn't working at the time so I had no Health Insurance. I went to the hospital, they registered me in the Health system and I was on the table in an hour. My appendix burst during the operation. In the U.S. I would have died. I'm glad we have Health Care here.

Having said that I realize this is the most expensive task the U.S. has undertaken in my lifetime. I don't believe they can afford foreign wars AND Universal Health Care. They need to make a choice.

thanks, and just one comment. I'm sure that most gov programs seem (fill in the blank) until you need to use them, then they might seem pretty important.

and lest we forget that the baby boomers are coming of age with all of the ageing illnesses to go along with that. when you reach 65 and you are lucky enough to still have health insurance you will be expected to use medicare first before your private insurance kicks in.

LMAO...I was wondering if anyone would catch that. I’m not saying that what he wrote was true or false just that it was interesting and yes I’m sure it was an opinion but possibly an informed opinion?