Stir The Pot

The State of The States

Thursday, March 25, 2010 by Chasbo | Discussion: Off-Topic

Well I know that I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I can't help myself.
 
What do you all think about The Health Care Bill?
 
Personally I think it doesn't go far enough. I wanted Universal Health Care. I think keeping the insurance companies in control is bad. The insurance companies should be placed under direct control of the government/people so that this thing is NOT profit motivated. Make no mistake that this system is still profit driven.
 
What about the death threats to the Dem Congressmen and Women? Put those wacko "Tea Party" people in jail I say. Those Glenn Beck/Fox/Sarah Palin zombies need to be dealt with harshly. I am saying the ones making death threats and throwing bricks through windows and such.
 
How about all those men making judgments about abortions? Hey I got a good idea: Let's let the women decide. I can't remember the last time I got pregnant. The bill removed the government funding for abortion anyway so why do those Glenn Beck/Fox/Sarah Palin people keep talking/bitching about it?
 
Here's another idea: Let's get the hell out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Those money pits sure don't help the so called debt now do they? Far as I can see Bin Laden is holed up in Pakistan so why the hell are we still in the wrong countries? Perhaps the cost of the health care bill could be covered by the money we are now spending killing people in the wrong places.
 
One final plea: Put Bush, Cheney and Rove in jail for the crimes they committed in the 8 years they were in office.
 
Have a nice day.
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Mumblefratz
Reply #61 Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:37 PM

Sorry buddy, but that allegation is a complete lie. There were dozens of cameras/video cameras present and NOT 1 slur or anything was recorded.
So then you're calling the Congressman a lair then.

Here is the story from the AP http://mobile.nbcactionnews.com/w/main/story/10005556/

And here's the video, you can see him reacting to being spat upon and you can see the individual in the balck tee shirt that did the spitting. Go to 1:25 into the clip.

As far as the claims of Ni**er the clip is not definitive. Clearly the larger chant is Kill the Bill however both Cleaver and Clyburn claim they heard the N-word. Note that he comes back with a cop at about 3:00 although no action is taken.

 

 

Will you be retracting your statement, or continue with the Tea Party is racist lies?
Absolutely not. No I will not be retracting my statement. This is not the first time that teabaggers have been proven to be racists. Too bad it won't be the last.

Mumblefratz
Reply #62 Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:42 PM

or continue with the Tea Party is racist lies?
Yeah right. And have you stopped beating your wife?

Philly0381
Reply #63 Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:43 PM

Philly0381
How long does the pot need to be stirred until it's soup?

So, is it soup yet?

Obiwan-Shenobi
Reply #64 Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:46 PM

So then you're calling the Congressman a lair then.

Yes sir I am, and the media are liars as well.
The video shows someone yelling loudly, and possibly some spit coming from their mouth, but nothing like the accusations you and the media are claiming.  As mentioned before, there are many other videos much clearer that indicate no racial slurs.  
Absolutely not. No I will not be retracting my statement. This is not the first time that teabaggers have been proven to be racists.
Too bad it won't be the last.
And yet you continue to show immaturity by calling someone a "teabagger".  As before, there is no indication of racism, and if there was it was most likely a union plant that has been actually proven to have been done before.  But hey, if you can put all "teabaggers" into a generalization like that, I guess it is just fine to call progressives traitors and communists for the actions of a few of theirs too.

 

MadDeez
Reply #65 Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:21 PM

when a congressman says he was spit upon or was called the "n" word, i believe him. when a congressman says his office windows were shot out or he has been threatened because he is jewish, i believe him.  <<<< eric cantor. remember him? he's a republican. the main difference is you have media nuts and politicians on the right calling on people to 'storm washington', go to a person's home to intimidate him, or break windows in democratic politicians' offices. have you seen or heard of anyone on the left asking anyone to do any of these things?

teabaggers? well, yeah. that IS what they called themselves before it was pointed out to them what the term means.

yes, "teabaggers" do call the president the "n" word. i attended a tea party rally in a neighboring town last fall just to see what they really complained about and the "n" word was used rather freely. so don't tell me there isn't a racist undertone to the tea party bullshit.

rasmussen poll? somebody actually gives the rasmussen poll any credence? come on! has drudge or rasmussen ever had a poll that was not tilted to the right? likewise, does anyone give a poll conducted by chris mathews or keith olberman any credence? you know polls conducted by those two are tilted to the left.

the media lie? you mean like faux news, limbaugh, malkin, colter, beck, hannity, breibart, and many others who claim to not be media but are.

the right will retaliate by voting the dems out in november, huh? wow. after medicaid was passed (it wasn't a popular vote at the time either), it wasn't an issue in the next election. after social security was passed, the presidential candidate who said he would repeal if elected lost in a landslide. nope. not a chance in hell will the dems lose control of congress.

if the repubs have a better idea, why didn't they enact something when they hadone-party rule during the first 6 years under bush? if the individual mandate is such a bad idea, why was grassly, hatch, and others on the right wanting the same thing in their opposing proposition to healthcare reform during the failed attempt at hcr by clinton back in the early 1990's? why does massachusetts have it now? wait! wasn't it romney who championed the state run healthcare system in massachusetts?

lost freedoms? what lost freedoms? oohhhh! you mean the freedoms lost under the patriot act, right? the patriot act passed under bush and continued by obama? yeah, i can agree with you on that one. the patriot act definitely should be repealed. any lost freedoms under the hcr bill? nope. none.

oh, by the way, is there ANY doubt now as to why palin resigned as governor? to save the alaskan taxpayer money, right? you actually believe that? her resigning cost the state taxpayers more money that it would've if she had stayed. republican members of the alaskan legislature have admitted that. do you honestly believe she didn't resign so she can get the money now while she can? after november's elections, she'll fade away and won't be able to cash in like she can now. would she have the book, fox commentator job, or getting the tv show on tlc if she was still in office. nope. she resigned to get the money, nothing more. anyone who thinks she'll be the republican presidential candidate in 2012 is living in a fantasy world.

Obiwan-Shenobi
Reply #66 Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:34 PM

when a congressman says he was spit upon or was called the "n" word, i believe him. when a congressman says his office windows were shot out or he has been threatened because he is jewish, i believe him.  <<<< eric cantor. remember him? he's a republican. the main difference is you have media nuts and politicians on the right calling on people to 'storm washington', go to a person's home to intimidate him, or break windows in democratic politicians' offices. have you seen or heard of anyone on the left asking anyone to do any of these things?

As I mentioned, the many videos prove he is lying, and since playing the race card is typically up the alley for democrats, you shouldn't believe them at all.  I haven't heard anyone on the right calling for the breaking of windows, can you cite a source?  And yes, please lookup how the Huffington Post was encouraging violence against the protesters.  

 

rasmussen poll? somebody actually gives the rasmussen poll any credence? come on! has drudge or rasmussen ever had a poll that was not tilted to the right? likewise, does anyone give a poll conducted by chris mathews or keith olberman any credence? you know polls conducted by those two are tilted to the left.

Yes of course.  The majority of polls all show the same thing.  Must be some type of VRWC.

 

lost freedoms? what lost freedoms? oohhhh! you mean the freedoms lost under the patriot act, right? the patriot act passed under bush and continued by obama? yeah, i can agree with you on that one. the patriot act definitely should be repealed. any lost freedoms under the hcr bill? nope. none.

I suppose you have no problem being forced by the hand of the IRS to purchase health insurance mandated by the federal government.  Let me guess, you are probably someone trying to benefit from it.

 

yes, "teabaggers" do call the president the "n" word. i attended a tea party rally in a neighboring town last fall just to see what they really complained about and the "n" word was used rather freely. so don't tell me there isn't a racist undertone to the tea party bullshit.

Yes, and I attended a progressive rally and they were all praising Karl Marx.  So they must all be marxists.

the_Monk
Reply #67 Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:45 PM

OldMsgt
RE to JODA

That is not true, Emergency rooms at any hospital would have by law been required to take you. You are spreading a Myth, It is emergency room care for those without insurance that is driving the cost of health care up along with litigation. I wonder if Canadian health care is so great why did the leader of Newfoundland come to the USA for his heart surgery

@ OldMsgt,

The guy from Newfoundland who went down to the US for surgery did so because he believed he could get better treatment there.  So?  That doesn't mean our system fails.  It just means our system needs MORE OPTIONS!

quoting myself from a previous thread...

The system in Canada works for the purpose of its intent, which is to say we "the Canadian Taxpayer" happily provide (at the very least) the basic healthcare for each and every one of our citizens (yes....even the abusers of said system).  Is it the very BEST treatment (ie. drugs, machines, technology, etc.) known to man?  No.  But it keeps the many healthy, while the few (ie. rare blood diseases, other rare conditions) are left out.

Of course there are many in Canada (including myself) that are all for a 2-tier system whereby we "the Canadian Taxpayer" would still happily provide the basic level of healthcare for all citizens AND allow for "paying-clinics" where we can simply pay for other (possibly even better) treatments and leave. 

The entire populace paying TAXES making sure the next generation gets educated is a GOOD thing.

The entire populace paying TAXES making sure everyone gets basic healthcare is a GOOD thing.

These are things which help a country survive when the sins of purely capitalist thinking catch up with it.  Look around you, sure your CAPATALISM made things attainable that wouldn't otherwise be there.  How are you planning to enjoy those things when the fabric of your nation (ie. the people) are sick and dying?  A smart nation, combines capitalism and socialism.  You need the competitiveness bred through capitalism to build a nation up, but you also need the backbone of socialism in order to survive the hard times.

the_Monk

the_Monk
Reply #68 Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:48 PM

Dr Guy
I for one always look forward to comments from non-Americans on American issues.  But I really wish they would at least educate themselves on the issue before commenting.  There are several in the Stardock family of websites that could run rings around Americans on American issues, but unfortunatly most cannot.  And indeed health care is one issue where the "furiners" that have commented do not appear to have a clue on how America works or the issues.

Please, before posting more errors and making incorrect statements learn.  Health care in the US is available to EVERYONE including illegal aliens.  And you do not have to join anything.  And if you cannot pay, you do not (how can you if you cannot?).

@ Dr Guy,

I could say the same thing about the US impression of our (Canadian) Health Care System.  Here's quoting myself from another thread again...

Being from Canada (a country where everyone and their dog enjoy free "healthcare") I'd like to (but probably shouldn't ) take this opportunity to set a few things straight.

There are no "death councils" in Canada.

Sure, someone somewhere decides what medicines/treatments etc. are to be offered/available, but those are then offered to one and all!  There is no "council" that decides this person get's this drug/treatment while joe over there gets an inferior drug/treatment.

Of course, this means that there are some treatments/drugs which are available in Europe or in the US that aren't available in Canada.  Sometimes the government will pay and sometimes it won't.  That doesn't mean there is some "death council" in Canada.  It just means that in Canada we believe if we can't afford a treatment for all, then it doesn't make it under the "free healthcare" umbrella.  Something inherently wrong with that?

Sure, wait-times.  Wait-times are atrocious.  Sometimes people end up dying before their scheduled appointment for treatment.  It happens in a system that tries to care for all at the same time.

 

I'd like to share two very differing experiences with our "free healthcare" system with you for analysis.

1. 

Many years ago the vehicle I was travelling in was hit head-on by a drunk (intent on killing himself).  Long-story short, I was ejected, bounced on the highway and sustained quite a few fractures.  As a result of those injuries I spent almost 5 months in the hospital, several more as an out-patient and am sure my "bills" (in a non-free healthcare system) would have made me bankrupt!

Did I receive the very BEST treatment known to man?  Probably not, I'm sure there are better technologies etc. available in Europe/USA for certain injuries I received, but at the end of the day I'm alive and not bankrupt!

 

2.

A few weeks ago while using a "mandolin" (yes I'm a man....and yes I do cook) I turned a portion of my thumb into a faux-potato slice (yes...I said I was a MAN!  ...what safety guard??).  At first my wife simply cleaned the wound, and bandaged me up nicely (we were having a dinner party so going anywhere at that moment was out of the question).

Hours later, (post clean-up) with my whole hand now throbbing and at 1am I decided to head down to the local hospital to get at least a tetanus shot (I hadn't had one in years).  It took almost an hour for the triage nurse to see me.  She un-wrapped my thumb saw it was still bleeding (this was now almost 10 hours after I initially cut it) cleaned it again, re-wrapped it and said "please have a seat".  So I sat down among the other 4 people in the emergency waiting area. 

One of the other four had a bad rash, another bad stomach pain (she left after waiting for 3 hours....) the third had what appeared to be a sprain as a result of drunken stumbling and the the fourth had a nasty cough.

So I waited......and waited........and....well my throbbing hand and I along with the security guard who didn't look like he could run down an old lady......watched almost the entirety of two movies.......while I waited.......and waited.....looked again at my yellow wrist-band and the large sign beside triage:

White wrist-band  =  can't remember (don't worry or something like that)

Green wrist-band  =  not urgent

Yellow wrist-band =  urgent

Red wrist-band = emergent

Purple wrist-band = resuscitative

 

Then at around 4am the triage nurse asked me to follow her into a room.  "The doctor will be right in to see you........".   Around 30min later a rather lovely nurse un-wrapped my thumb for the second time, saw it was still bleeding, cleaned it again and left....."the doctor will be right in to see you....."  An additonal 30min later the lovely nurse was back to stick me with a needle (the Tetanus shot I had come for) and once again said...."the doctor will be right in to see you..."

...somewhere around 5:30am a nurse just about to go take a nap (she spoke over her shoulder at someone outside the room) un-wrapped, and once again cleaned my still bleeding (and now slightly more aggravated.....thanks to the constant un and re-wrapping etc.) thumb, then she went to take a nap.  This time no one said "....the doctor will be right in.....".

Around 6:30am I left the room and started pacing the hallway.......was anyone even coming?  What was I still doing here?  I mean I'd received the shot I needed, was there anything left to do?  sigh........public healthcare....grumble grumble....

At 7:10am a doctor sidles into the room with a joke on his tongue.......nice.  Did you just get on shift buddy? cause I've been warming your waiting room chairs and now this flat-ass stretcher for the last six hours!   He got the hint.......monk was in no mood for jokes right about then.  So he got busy un-wrapping my thumb for the umpteenth time!  (and btw.......doctors SUCK at un-wrapping things......those nurses were much more sensetive......damn...I bit my tongue!)  So.....Mr. doctor-man looks at my thumb....says....."wow....nice potato-slice.....tee hee!..." then he says....we'll get it wrapped up again and you're free to go.  Then he leaves the room.....I'm sitting there holding bloody gauze against my thumb so the still bleeding wound won't mess up the otherwise clean room.

..another 20 minutes later....a third nurse......(chirpy little thing)..breezes in....sticks my thumb in some totally impractical condom-like device and gives me a hand-puppet!  Thanks.  I'm hoping my car hasn't been towed....

 

Of course I'm not exactly thrilled at the performance of our "system" in my second scenario.  So do I support a TWO-tier system whereby in scenario number one everything that happend, would happen the same way again, but in scenario number two I might have the option to go to a "paying clinic" and have had my shot and been out of there in minutes as opposed to hours.

Public free healthcare is GREAT but what would make our system BETTER, is to simultaneously have the option of going to other clinics (within Canada) where one could pay and therefore forego the wait-times of our free healthcare system.

I say, more options are always better.  Those claiming that public healthcare is wrong/bad, simply don't know what they are talking about!

 

-- monk out! 

MadDeez
Reply #69 Thursday, March 25, 2010 6:55 PM

obiwan, are you really a complete idiot? nobody on the right calling for breaking windows? what about that idiot militia dumbass from the south who admitted telling his 'followers' to break the windows of democratic officials' offices? have you not been watching the news the last few days. even faux news had that story. what about the beloved tea party idiot from minnesota, bachman, who actively called for tea party people to storm washington while appearing on hannity's show? she has done that on multiple occasions. and then you have beck saying that obama, pelosi, and reid are trying to get people to kill him.

playing the race card, huh? does that mean cantor is playing the jewish card? i highly doubt that, big fella.

the majority of polls show the same thing? those same polls show that if you ask the people who are against hcr about individual policies included int he bill, they are for it.

am i trying to benefit from it? you're truly an idiot, aren't you? i have good insurance. it's probably better than yours. purchase helath insurance mandated by the federal government? don't you purchase auto insurance madated by the government now? oh wait!! you mean the same mandated insurance purchase championed by romney, grassley, hatch, dole, nixon, and others on the right in years past? it seems to me if you had paid attention to any of the negotiations which led to the present bill, you would know that stipulation was an idea from the right, not the left.

you attended a progressive rally? liar. they were praising karl marx? again, liar.

MadDeez
Reply #70 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:00 PM

monk, emergency rooms here are just like that. i've waited for 2 hours to get something to relieve the pain from a kidney stone.

Obiwan-Shenobi
Reply #71 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:06 PM

the majority of polls show the same thing? those same polls show that if you ask the people who are against hcr about individual policies included int he bill, they are for it.

Of course you call pull numerous sections of a 2600+ page bill and poll people on it.  Everything isn't bad, but as I mentioned, the majority of Americans do not want this bill.  

 don't you purchase auto insurance madated by the government now? oh wait!! you mean the same mandated insurance purchase championed by romney, grassley, hatch, dole, nixon, and otehrs ont he right in years past? it seems to me if you had paid attention to any of the negotiations which led to the present bill, you would know that that stipulation was an idea from the right, not the left.

I believe your rabid anger is hindering your thought process.  No, you do purchase private insurance mandated by the government now. The health insurance mandate is unprecedented, and does not compare to any other government program.   

nobody on the right calling for breaking windows? what about that idiot militia dumbass from the south who admitted telling his 'followers' to break the windows of democratic officials' offices?

You sir are hilarious.  A guy with a blog on blogspot is hardly some influential leader of the "right". 

you attended a progressive rally? liar. they were praising karl marx? again, liar.

The same to you sir.  I wouldn't believe for one second a person as angry as yourself would attend anything that might hinder more government welfare.  

It really is hard to argue with someone who keeps preaching "faux news".  Silly progressive.

 

DrJBHL
Reply #72 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:16 PM

MadDeez
monk, emergency rooms here are just like that. i've waited for 2 hours to get something to relieve the pain from a kidney stone.

Maybe if there were a public option to drive the rapacious, arrogant insurance co.'s prices down and more people could get reasonable outpatient care, ER's wouldn't have to function like out-patient clinics and people wouldn't become walking train wrecks and you wouldn't have had to wait 2 hours in total agony from kidney stones MadDeez....and I'm truly sorry that did happen to you.

MadDeez
Reply #73 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:27 PM

me angry? nope. not yet. and yes, i did attend one last october with a friend of mine who is active in the tea party 'movement'. you want mark's phone number so you can call him to verify it?

me preach 'faux news'? nada. if it weren't for shep smith, they wouldn't have a nwes department at all.

that guy with a blog is actively calling for civil unrest. i never said he was a leader of the right. i did give him as an example of some right-wing nut case, tho. but then again, he's no more of a nut case than bachman, beck, limbaugh, or palin are.

me hilarious? well, i'm not a preofessional comedian but i have been told for years that i'm good at telling jokes and humorous stories.

silly progressive? me? no. i'm a dead serious progressive.

so, you admit you buy mandated auto insurance but yet you aren't bitching about it? why not? btw, i'm not angry at all and my thought process is much clearer than yours, obviously.

also, a majority of people are for the bill when polled about indiviual processes of it. you won't see that fact on faux, though.

would i have voted for it? no. it isn't 'single payer', is it? until this country has single payer universal healthcare for everyone, we'll lag behind other countries in how we treat out citizens.

MadDeez
Reply #74 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:28 PM

doc, you're absolutely right! on a personal note, thank you.

Xiandi
Reply #75 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:37 PM

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

Daiwa
Reply #76 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:46 PM

Brad...I'm here to tell you from first hand knowledge...Medicaid is the biggest scam I've ever seen. Over 3 years they have paid out some where around $70 or $80,000 on my behalf for this...and I use the term loosely...healthcare...it's more like "couldn't healthcare less." And I am no closer now than I was 3 years ago in finding out what my problem is...and it just keeps getting worse. And I am more pissed about all that money spent for nothing than I am about them not finding out what's wrong. Medicaid is just another scam.

Sadly, this is what it will be like for everyone sooner than anyone realizes (unless you get your ass elected to Congress or manage to remain at least somewhat wealthy).  The bureacratic inertia & obfuscation that develops in these 'systems' does as much as anything, if not more, to frustrate actual delivery of care that anyone would care to call 'good'.  Some people seem to think making everyone suffer equally is utopia.  There's no such thing as an adequate 'safety net' to them.  The very notion of a 'safety net' is anathema, because it implies that some people don't need one, which can't possibly be 'fair'.

I won't get into an argument here about it, but the assertion that people die 'directly attributable' to the lack of insurance is a myth - a 'correlation' proselytized as a cause-effect relationship by a group with an ideological agenda, bought into by those sharing that agenda.  And it's a bit disingenuous even if true - people will continue to die, even with Obamacare, and we'll be reading soon enough how many thousands of those deaths occurred because we don't tax ourselves enough, or spend enough, or spend it in the right way or at the right time, or that they wouldn't be dying if we had more 'oversight' by some or other understaffed bureau, or if we weren't wasting so much on the elderly's last years of life.  You can bet the farm on it.  These people believe you can't have too much government.

We've seen a microcosm of the future with the Medicaid equivalent here in Arizona - every year the paper runs a series of horror stories about the inadequacy of some aspect of Medicaid services, especially mental health care.  There follows, sure as night follows day, the obligatory government investigation & re-awarding of contracts & we start the cycle all over again.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

I've also practiced in both the VA and military systems where everyone 'has insurance' - unless you're a disabled combat vet needing state of the art prosthetics & rehab, you don't want anything to do with either.

So to those who so ardently wish for universal single-payor health care I suggest caution - you may get what you wish for and find it wanting, at which point your only alternative will be to get your ass rich.  Which, thanks to the 'help' of our isolated & insulated politicians, you won't be able to do so easily.

OldMsgt
Reply #77 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:48 PM

Sgt Arms of congress and capitol police have found no concerted effort nor did the police find anyone that did this. In fact if you watch the whole news story the congressman in question could not definitely identify this person. How about death threats to republican Congressman Kantor, his office fired at in  Virginia because he is Jewish and a Republican. Just how many have been arrested at teaThe parties across this country? How many have arrested when the G8 meet in USA those that protest at meetings on the left are more ;ikely to be prone to violence than the tea party people who come from all walks of life

Mumblefratz
Reply #78 Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:58 PM

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
After being fellated by Sally Hemings no doubt.

 

 

Obiwan-Shenobi
Reply #79 Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:02 PM

so, you admit you buy mandated auto insurance but yet you aren't bitching about it? why not? btw, i'm not angry at all and my thought process is much clearer than yours, obviously.

You are once again sadly misinformed, or just capable of handling facts.  Auto insurance is not "mandated" as this is.  Any American, and a great portion do - choose not to have automobiles nor drive.  Regardless, auto insurance laws are to protect other drivers, so it is a pointless comparison to make.

Under this healthcare trap, every American citizen will be required by law to purchase health insurance or be fined.  You can't just choose not to have it.  You have to!

See the difference?

 

that guy with a blog is actively calling for civil unrest. i never said he was a leader of the right. i did give him as an example of some right-wing nut case, tho. but then again, he's no more of a nut case than bachman, beck, limbaugh, or palin are.

I'm sure if I spend but 10 minutes on the internet I can find tons of progressives inciting violence against conservatives.  Your argument is moot and weak.

 

also, a majority of people are for the bill when polled about indiviual processes of it. you won't see that fact on faux, though.

As before, polling on parts of a 2600+ page bill is different than the entire boat-load that was passed through.  Think man!

 

me preach 'faux news'? nada. if it weren't for shep smith, they wouldn't have a nwes department at all.

Haaaha.  I'm sure you get all your "news" from the Obama-loving media too.  Silly.

 

 

Daiwa
Reply #80 Thursday, March 25, 2010 8:06 PM

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
After being fellated by Sally Hemings no doubt.

Ever the master of the irrational non-sequitor.

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