Could Hollywood Hack your PC?
Thursday, July 25, 2002 by werewolf | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Sponsored by Reps. Howard Berman, D-Calif., and Howard Coble, R-N.C., the measure would permit copyright holders to perform nearly unchecked electronic hacking if they have a "reasonable basis" to believe that piracy is taking place. Berman and Coble plan to introduce the 10-page bill this week.
The legislation would immunize groups such as the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America from all state and federal laws if they disable, block or otherwise impair a "publicly accessible peer-to-peer network."
Anyone whose computer was damaged in the process must receive the permission of the U.S. attorney general before filing a lawsuit, and a suit could be filed only if the actual monetary loss was more than $250.
There's more you should read... please see link.
The legislation would immunize groups such as the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America from all state and federal laws if they disable, block or otherwise impair a "publicly accessible peer-to-peer network."
Anyone whose computer was damaged in the process must receive the permission of the U.S. attorney general before filing a lawsuit, and a suit could be filed only if the actual monetary loss was more than $250.
There's more you should read... please see link.
 |
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
C-Rat
Reply #2 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:07 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:07 PM
Unbelievable....
While I don't use this type of service myself, I am very troubled by the thought of these out of control organizations having the power and ability and legal right to do this type of thing.
This is not right and there HAS to be another way to solve this problem.
If this law passes, they are no better than the common hacker or virus writer IMO.
The most troubling aspect of the whole thing is the idea that they will be exempt from any damage over $250 and that nobody can touch them.
Based on the $250 threshold, they could attack someone's computer, destroy their hard drive and the targeted person could do nothing about it since new drives are less that that amount.
BTW define "resonable basis".... I read nothing about any sort of safeguards being put into place to ensure they don't overstep their bounds or any type of oversight.
These guys are WAY OUT OF CONTROL.
John
While I don't use this type of service myself, I am very troubled by the thought of these out of control organizations having the power and ability and legal right to do this type of thing.
This is not right and there HAS to be another way to solve this problem.
If this law passes, they are no better than the common hacker or virus writer IMO.
The most troubling aspect of the whole thing is the idea that they will be exempt from any damage over $250 and that nobody can touch them.
Based on the $250 threshold, they could attack someone's computer, destroy their hard drive and the targeted person could do nothing about it since new drives are less that that amount.
BTW define "resonable basis".... I read nothing about any sort of safeguards being put into place to ensure they don't overstep their bounds or any type of oversight.
These guys are WAY OUT OF CONTROL.
John
C-Rat
Reply #3 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:09 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:09 PM
Oops, I meant to say ".....exempt from any damage under $250....."
C-Rat
Reply #4 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:16 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:16 PM
This just ocurred to me.
What happens when they target someone who is doing this while they are at work?
Say,
They they work for a large company or the federal government.
They are behind a firewall.
What happens when they hack a government firewall or Fortune 500 company to target a system the P2P user doesn't own?
What happens if they destroy sensitive company or government information?
Say the P2P person works for Microsoft or the Pentagon.....
This could get really interesting really fast.
What happens when they target someone who is doing this while they are at work?
Say,
They they work for a large company or the federal government.
They are behind a firewall.
What happens when they hack a government firewall or Fortune 500 company to target a system the P2P user doesn't own?
What happens if they destroy sensitive company or government information?
Say the P2P person works for Microsoft or the Pentagon.....
This could get really interesting really fast.
capn
Reply #5 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:44 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:44 PM
Politicians.... geez...... is anyone else reminded of big brother here?
The bad outweighs the good on this one.
The bad outweighs the good on this one.
1Renegade
Reply #6 Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:49 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:49 PM
Come On..........Wake Up!!!!
It is the sign of the times, remember we live in a Capitalist society here. Our system is based on keeping the rich rich, and the "not-rich" subserviant. If the "entertainment" industry is hurting, so is their tax base to our government. Money talks people, it always has, the rest of us, the working class, have to abide by those rules to keep the dollars flowing in the "right" direction. Join a PAC, better yet start one!
It is the sign of the times, remember we live in a Capitalist society here. Our system is based on keeping the rich rich, and the "not-rich" subserviant. If the "entertainment" industry is hurting, so is their tax base to our government. Money talks people, it always has, the rest of us, the working class, have to abide by those rules to keep the dollars flowing in the "right" direction. Join a PAC, better yet start one!
capn
Reply #7 Thursday, July 25, 2002 4:21 PM
Reply #7 Thursday, July 25, 2002 4:21 PM
Granted, but keep in mind that this is also an invasion of privacy. Also, those with money don't keep it forever, especially when they do something illegal (ENRON!) so while corporate America is very formidable, its not invincible and they can't get away with whatever they want. And it only a matter of time that someone exploits their newly legal hacking ability for corporate gain.
7dave7
Reply #8 Thursday, July 25, 2002 5:42 PM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 25, 2002 5:42 PM
Wouldn't this be an illegal act? If I remember clearly, there's an amendment in the Consitution of the United States that plainly explains that the government cannot search or break into the privacy of a citizen WITHOUT a warrant.
JDavidHarper
Reply #9 Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:33 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:33 PM
7dave7: The government isn't breaking into the computers, the corporations are. It's stupid, and if the corps decide to hurt P2P systesm through hacking and virii, expect the hacking world and those who want these services to counterattack swiftly and severely.
C-Rat
Reply #10 Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:27 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:27 PM
If they hack to delete mp3's what's to stop them from installing spyware or some other ad serving program or web tracker while their on the system.
Heck, while their at it they could mine the person's cookies to find out where they've been so they can get spam....
Heck, while their at it they could mine the person's cookies to find out where they've been so they can get spam....
Entilza
Reply #11 Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:59 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, July 25, 2002 7:59 PM
I am sorry to report that the play you recorded of your daughter on your camcorder called "snow white" has now been toasted.. Tough luck that you do not have another copy.
( And on that page it's fine with them? )
I am not worried about this law.. I do not download this type of media, Maybe they will be immune from U.S law but what about european ?
Hey you have just trashed my drive and lost my daughters play forever ... I am taking you to european court.
Would this not be taken as an infringement of privacy to begin with in the first place ?
As for cookies i am not worried about them i delete them every day.
Not only this there are a number of places on the web where you can buy music for download.. There is no way this can be handled they would have to be crazy as is would be impossible to police.
Oh yeah i found this it's a part of...(there may be more in there)
The Constitution of the United States of America
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
.....
Have a nice day you all
( And on that page it's fine with them? )
I am not worried about this law.. I do not download this type of media, Maybe they will be immune from U.S law but what about european ?
Hey you have just trashed my drive and lost my daughters play forever ... I am taking you to european court.
Would this not be taken as an infringement of privacy to begin with in the first place ?
As for cookies i am not worried about them i delete them every day.
Not only this there are a number of places on the web where you can buy music for download.. There is no way this can be handled they would have to be crazy as is would be impossible to police.
Oh yeah i found this it's a part of...(there may be more in there)
The Constitution of the United States of America
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
.....
Have a nice day you all
UBoB
Reply #12 Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:09 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:09 PM
You know, people thought Orwell went overboard when he wrote 1984. Now, I don't even think he could have imagined such total invasion privacy as this. Such total disregard for civil rights. "Big Brother" was a child's bedtime story compared to this. >
DigitalCHET
Reply #13 Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:36 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:36 PM
"Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It sounds nice and makes you feel a little secure at first glance but if you look closer the corporations can get around this amendment because they are providing a "probable cause" or in this case "reasonable basis". That means if they can dig up a shred of data that could be used to prove that your computer is a P2P trading nexus then they are given the right to do as they see fit. They can, in effect, trash your hard-drives and render your system useless and you get nothing out of them unless the damage is over US$250.
Then if you want to sue for loss of important data or whatever you have to seek permission from the US Governor General?!?!
If major corporations are backed by governments, the populace can only grin and bear it. The corps have the money to back whatever silly ideas pop into their heads and the governments are getting their share of the action too. Quid pro quo.
Despite all that, there will still be ways to get around all the red tape. Someone always comes up with something.
Good luck to us all.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It sounds nice and makes you feel a little secure at first glance but if you look closer the corporations can get around this amendment because they are providing a "probable cause" or in this case "reasonable basis". That means if they can dig up a shred of data that could be used to prove that your computer is a P2P trading nexus then they are given the right to do as they see fit. They can, in effect, trash your hard-drives and render your system useless and you get nothing out of them unless the damage is over US$250.
Then if you want to sue for loss of important data or whatever you have to seek permission from the US Governor General?!?!
If major corporations are backed by governments, the populace can only grin and bear it. The corps have the money to back whatever silly ideas pop into their heads and the governments are getting their share of the action too. Quid pro quo.
Despite all that, there will still be ways to get around all the red tape. Someone always comes up with something.
Good luck to us all.
UBoB
Reply #14 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:03 PM
Reply #14 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:03 PM
Are we (as a people) not entitled to due process? These people are being judge jury and executioner. If they find that "shred of data", fine, then next they should have to prove in a court of law that a law was being broken, and, if they succeed in proving it they should then have sentenced pronounced in accordance with law.
In essence what they are asking for is the right to circumvent civil rights and pry into peoples computers to find evidence so that they can immediately pronounce sentence, and then just as quickly, punish the alleged wrong-doer.
I see alot of such cases being challenged and won in court. The money they get back by decreasing the P2P problem will be going right back out to pay the lawsuits and legal fees.
Who are the brilliant minds that came up with this one?
In essence what they are asking for is the right to circumvent civil rights and pry into peoples computers to find evidence so that they can immediately pronounce sentence, and then just as quickly, punish the alleged wrong-doer.
I see alot of such cases being challenged and won in court. The money they get back by decreasing the P2P problem will be going right back out to pay the lawsuits and legal fees.
Who are the brilliant minds that came up with this one?
T-Man
Reply #15 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:19 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:19 PM
I've said it before to my friends, if the record companies would start selling individual songs for a small fee of something like $2 each I think that would find a rather nice new market. Digitally sign the files of some sort to prevent casual pirating. Die hard hackers/pirates are still going to get the files regardless of what you do. So make it real simple and a good price and they will probably have a flood of new revenue. I personally don't buy too much music any more. I think we have only bought about 3 CD's in the last 2 years. Simply because I do not feel like paying $16 for only 2 songs that I like. But I would be more than willing to pay a couple dollars for the songs I do like, download them and burn them to my own CD's. I think its a win win situation.
Hiddenatnight
Reply #16 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:47 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:47 PM
The lot of you should get your panties un-wadded. Even if this bill passes through both houses and manages to get the Presidential signature, it'll never survive judicial review.
And 1Renegade, the only thing your frenzied post was missing was coffee stains to better demonstrate your passion and Marxism.
And 1Renegade, the only thing your frenzied post was missing was coffee stains to better demonstrate your passion and Marxism.
Griffinme
Reply #17 Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:23 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:23 PM
That this kind of twisted thinking even sees the light of day, let alone is put up as a bill to be voted on, distresses me.
Company A attacks and shreds Company B's computers and network. "We thought they were using an illegal copy of X."
What evidence do you have? "It was on those computers we destroyed." How convienant.
And before you think this is just smoke look who is backing this bastard. "Reps. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the full Judiciary committee, Lamar Smith, R-Texas, the chairman of a crime subcommittee, and Robert Wexler, D-Fla." some pretty big heavy hitters. BTW, since when are Demecrats so worried about giant corperations getting hurt? I thought Republicans were the only ones supposed to have friends in the board rooms. Hypocrits. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. This is the media that is getting hurt. Can't have those nice left leaning people hurt.
Company A attacks and shreds Company B's computers and network. "We thought they were using an illegal copy of X."
What evidence do you have? "It was on those computers we destroyed." How convienant.
And before you think this is just smoke look who is backing this bastard. "Reps. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the full Judiciary committee, Lamar Smith, R-Texas, the chairman of a crime subcommittee, and Robert Wexler, D-Fla." some pretty big heavy hitters. BTW, since when are Demecrats so worried about giant corperations getting hurt? I thought Republicans were the only ones supposed to have friends in the board rooms. Hypocrits. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. This is the media that is getting hurt. Can't have those nice left leaning people hurt.
AJCrowley
Reply #18 Friday, July 26, 2002 12:44 AM
Reply #18 Friday, July 26, 2002 12:44 AM
The best way to attack this kind of proposal is to take the time to write to your member of congress and express your concerns. Since I'm not in the U.S., there's little point in me doing it, but to those of you that are - your member of congress is there to serve and represent you, if you don't make your views known, then you can't expect anything to be done about it. Failing that, there's always the option of dissent. Equal retribution for each machine taken down by MPAA/RIAA hired hackers 
AJC
AJC
dagwinn
Reply #19 Friday, July 26, 2002 9:53 AM
Reply #19 Friday, July 26, 2002 9:53 AM
Keep in mind that the Constitution and its amendments only limit the actions of the Government and its agencies. They do no apply to private organizations/corporations. If Congress passes a law that entitles RIAA members to pursue their property when it has been illegally obtained, it won't be unconstitutional unless it involves government agencies.
(For example, the agents of bail bondsmen, a.k.a. bounty hunters, are not limited by the same constitutional prohibitions as police. They can search and seize without a warrant.)
"Legally", the RIAA members are only "pursuing" their property which has been illegally obtained. Their legal copyright may be held to supercede an individual's right to privacy if that individual has already broken the law by illegally obtaining copyrighted materials.
But simply because something is "legal" does not make it either right or just. Write your senator and representative. Send them snail mail and explain your position. (Real letters count, e-mail doesn't.)
If the RIAA really wants to know why sales are down, they should look at the quality of their products. I've bought probably 2 CDs in the last year. Why? Because there's so much CRAP being sold and it isn't worth 15 bucks to find that out. I've gone to listening to Henry Mancini and Harry Belafonte (etc.) albums from the 60s. And I wasn't even alive when they were recorded.
(For example, the agents of bail bondsmen, a.k.a. bounty hunters, are not limited by the same constitutional prohibitions as police. They can search and seize without a warrant.)
"Legally", the RIAA members are only "pursuing" their property which has been illegally obtained. Their legal copyright may be held to supercede an individual's right to privacy if that individual has already broken the law by illegally obtaining copyrighted materials.
But simply because something is "legal" does not make it either right or just. Write your senator and representative. Send them snail mail and explain your position. (Real letters count, e-mail doesn't.)
If the RIAA really wants to know why sales are down, they should look at the quality of their products. I've bought probably 2 CDs in the last year. Why? Because there's so much CRAP being sold and it isn't worth 15 bucks to find that out. I've gone to listening to Henry Mancini and Harry Belafonte (etc.) albums from the 60s. And I wasn't even alive when they were recorded.
dmbishop
Reply #20 Friday, July 26, 2002 10:45 AM
Reply #20 Friday, July 26, 2002 10:45 AM
Eventually, if this passes, another organization or person will sue to obtain the same rights as the RIAA. Imagine if those people who are claiming a patent on the JPEG format get those rights and are allowed to go through peoples' computers and delete any JPEG files that they find.
Better yet, let's say that I PERSONALLY manage to sue and get that power and I PERSONALLY have a copyrighted shareware program called "David Bishop's Great Utility.exe" that I think people are pirating (after all, everyone pays for all the shareware on their PC, right). I PERSONALLY send in my letter saying that I am going to release a worm onto a P2P network that will search everyone's PC for the program and if it can't find a valid reg code it will delete the program from the user's PC. But, I am a poor or sloppy programmer. My worm has a bug in it that instead of deleting just "David Bishop's Great Utility.exe" it deletes all files that start with D (d*.*). Sucks for you. Now, let's take it one step further. Hundreds of thousands of people get every file that starts with D deleted from their system by my worm. Thousands go through the process and sue me for damages over $250 (it would probably end up as a class action). When it's all said and done, I can't possibly pay the millions in damages so I declare PERSONAL bankrupcy. Again, sucks for you.
The possibilities are endless.
Dave
Better yet, let's say that I PERSONALLY manage to sue and get that power and I PERSONALLY have a copyrighted shareware program called "David Bishop's Great Utility.exe" that I think people are pirating (after all, everyone pays for all the shareware on their PC, right). I PERSONALLY send in my letter saying that I am going to release a worm onto a P2P network that will search everyone's PC for the program and if it can't find a valid reg code it will delete the program from the user's PC. But, I am a poor or sloppy programmer. My worm has a bug in it that instead of deleting just "David Bishop's Great Utility.exe" it deletes all files that start with D (d*.*). Sucks for you. Now, let's take it one step further. Hundreds of thousands of people get every file that starts with D deleted from their system by my worm. Thousands go through the process and sue me for damages over $250 (it would probably end up as a class action). When it's all said and done, I can't possibly pay the millions in damages so I declare PERSONAL bankrupcy. Again, sucks for you.
The possibilities are endless.
Dave
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Reply #1 Thursday, July 25, 2002 12:26 PM
It is my opinion (wrong or right, i don't care) that these companies that are being hurt by new technology should stop looking for a way to shut down P2P and start looking for a way to make some legitimate money off of it. It would be interesting to see if any of the creative wincustomize users could come up with some ideas to turn a profit from a filesharing company, here's my idea (just a start, somebody improve on it): A particular movie studio could charge XX dollars a month for download access to all the movies they produce (could work the same with record labels). I know this is similar to what Napster tried to do, but by charging the movie companies could promise virus free downloads, no ads, or even exclusive access to behind the scenes footage or something. The problem with this is what's to prevent someone who downloads the movie from this network to re-distribute it? So essentially my idea will not work at all, so howsabout we do a little brainstorming and try and come up with something that would actually work?
~Capn
Be constructive, not destructive