Do We Need The Rating System?
An open discussion
Wednesday, February 10, 2010 by PoSmedley | Discussion: Community
How does the rating system work? It is partly based on the level of the user doing the rating. For example, someone at level eight would vote and it would count eight times, while someone at level one would have a vote that counts one time. That's a rough explanation. Based on that, a level eight vote could counter 3 or 4 not so sensible votes. Your trusty Admins and Mods carry the most weight. And they do keep watch on these things and on the not-so-sensible voters.
Is there a perfect rating system? I have seen a lot of suggestions. I have even made some. We all have seen them or made some. The ideas I have seen often involve more work on the Admin and Mods part. None are perfect. This is because we are human and we have our own tastes and opinions.
Often we disagree with one another. Sometimes we disagree drastically. As long as everyone is allowed an opinion, as they should be, and an opportunity to voice it through comments or rating, there is going to be conflict. Even when two people absolutely love the same thing, it may be for entirely different reasons.
Then you have people who rate something from the gut. They may be rating from their own sense of who they think the artist is and what they think the artist deserves and not on the actual art. They may rate high just to show support whether as a fan or a friend. They may also rate the work low based on other personal feelings and again, not on the actual work. We may tend to like an artist so much we rate everything they do high, overlooking flaws, because we put the artist first. On the opposite end, we may have such a negative view of an artist that we rate everything low., looking for every imperfection we can find.
There is no way to detect in advance the motivation behind a persons vote. If you question a persons positive vote, you can put them on the defensive. No one wants to be accused of doing something for anything other than the right reasons. If you question their negative vote (a personally motivated vote to be more precise) they can just lie. If someone truly wants to bring it down, they will find a way.
Making anyone jump through hoops to rate one's work, by having to comment first or download first mat deter the positive ratings as much as the negative ones. In my experience, negativity can be a much stronger motivation for some people, whether it is the thrill of what they consider a victory or they are so self-absorbed they feel it won't be rated properly until they have had their say or done their damage.
While we wait to see what the new rating system will be (if there even will be one) I think time is well spent trying to ask ourselves if we truly need one. Often it is said "It's the downloads that count." and I believe this is true. When you have 348,000 downloads or more (or less) does the rating system really matter?
The only two thing I have personally ever seen that boosts downloads of my work is Number One:when it is featured on the home page or in one of Island Dogs threads. My screenshots are proof of this. Any screenshot that has made Screenshot of the Day has had multiple downloads, sometimes going into the double digits. All the others are either low to no downloads at all. And not all of the ones featured had high ratings to begin with, screenshots or any other skins but they were featured. Even the folks picking the features have their own opinions.
Number Two would be anything I have made being featured in someone else's screenshot. (Thanks to all who provide links to my work in their screenshots)
The rating system, in my opinion is mute. It's the promotion of one's work that really makes the difference and should be the topic of discussion. As a community we can do more for each other by promoting one another's work than any rating system can. As a community, that is what we should be doing. The rating system does not hurt your work or the community half as much as the complaining about it and all the negative attention focused on the actual system. My 'suggestion' for a ratings system (like we need another one) is either a simple 'thumbs up and thumbs down' or 'favorites'.Or just leave it all to the number of downloads. Wincustomize is a community and should always be treated as such. As a community we should be about one another as a whole. The Lone Wolfs or folks with an agenda should just get out of the way and limiting the rating system (I'm not saying my idea is perfect) to a 'thumbs up or thumbs down' will help in limiting their (negative) impact on the community.
As the site gets ready to change I think it is important that we are ready to change with it, no matter what rating system is applied to it. As a community we should be bigger and stronger than a few 'stars'. We should be one in why we are here. The love of skinning . Whether you're just an observer, a user, an appreciator, or a skinner. It should be about creating - and sharing, supporting, and promoting everything that is fun, enjoyable, and satisfying about skinning. In my opinion, we don't need the rating system. What's yours?
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Reply #43 Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:42 PM
I agree with you K10w3, very well said
Reply #44 Monday, February 15, 2010 7:58 AM
I've had a little time to think about this and I'm sort of torn between expanding the rating system, increasing the number of starts to equal the rating values, and doing something radically different.
the radically different aspect would be to drop the rating system and the number of downloads altogether. downloads could be available to the skinner (I use this as a gauge) on their skin page but not shown on the skin preview pages. this would level the playing field for all skins. One could still sort by skinner's name.
Reply #45 Monday, February 15, 2010 8:18 AM
My solution to the whole thing was to avoid it. I download what I like, and assign my own rating in WB7, and go from there. The system has pluses and minuses like any system. The Mods catch bad abuses... what else can one do?
Reply #46 Monday, February 15, 2010 9:44 AM
Some people vote based on how well the skin applies, other on if they like the design, someone else on the composition of each individual element and some even rate based on if they know the person who made the skin. There are also other factors, like how many votes has been cast, and how votes are weighed (if at all). DEtermining quality or sorting by votes will never be useful, regardless of how the voting system is implemented (unless the only thing you want to achieve is removing the absolute worst of the bunch that noone in their right mind would like).
I download what I like, and erase everything I don't see as 4 or 5 star worthy. Why would I use a good skin with all the absolutely wonderful skins I have to pick from? The personal rating system in windowblinds and other software is useless, it should be replaced with a custom tag and filtering system. Wincustomize needs tagging and filtering too instead of that messed up old "sections and subsection"-baloney.
Reply #47 Monday, February 15, 2010 9:55 AM
Mick...ya gotta lay off that Surstromming. 
It ain't gonna change...so relax, my friend. 
Reply #49 Monday, February 15, 2010 11:11 AM
but the more things change the more they stay the same.
No matter what direction the rating system goes, there will always be people who will have issues with it or the way other folks use it. There has been some great input here and some interesting ideas. I think the most important thing is that no matter where this goes we can all get behind it.
Reply #50 Monday, February 15, 2010 3:22 PM
Yes, and there are plenty of others who wish to represent another body part by abusing the ratings.
Still,I think the ratings do serve as a guide but they shouldn't be used by themselves to judge a skin.
Reply #51 Monday, February 15, 2010 3:40 PM
I never noticed this before but it appears that you can rate a skin more than once. I rated a skin today than saw by the posts that I had rated it before (guess it was resubmitted). I was under the impression that you couldn't do this but this could lead to some abuse.
Reply #52 Monday, February 15, 2010 4:57 PM
It rerecords your last rating, so there will only be one rating per person.
Reply #53 Monday, February 15, 2010 5:11 PM
Since most of the discussion with ratings really comes down to whether you want to see them or not I have a two suggestion.
Why not have an option in setup within WinCustomize that allows a person viewing the library to select not to see ratings.
Or another opiton would/could be that the only person that sees the ratings of a skin is the skinner.
You will still see the comments and downloads totals.
Reply #54 Monday, February 15, 2010 5:19 PM
I have never used the rating system, but I think we need it. It can become a great tool. If I were a skinner (I wish I was) I would love to see it provide some user feed back. For example I would want to see my skins rated on a few different catagories such as color, overall appearance, or perhaps on how technical it was. I think there should be 4 or 5 such critera that way as a skinner I might look at it and say" Wow it recieved wonderful ratings except in the area of color, I might remake it in a lighter or darker tone." I know such a system would allow me to be a better skinner and give me a better understanding of why my rating is what it is. Just my 2 cents.
Reply #55 Monday, February 15, 2010 5:34 PM
WOM is correct, you can go in and change your rating on a skin by rerating, but it only counts a a single rating, overwriting the previous rating given.. It will not add them up together. So no chance for abuse.
Reply #56 Monday, February 15, 2010 6:03 PM
meh, i'm offline for almost two years and when i come back this is what i get? the same issues with the raiting system, same ones that i complained two years ago....:
Reply #57 Monday, February 15, 2010 6:14 PM
https://forums.wincustomize.com/315488
Yup. 
Reply #58 Monday, February 15, 2010 6:34 PM
I think everyone is missing the point of the ratings.
There are only three factors that lead to a skin's acceptance/status/success on the site.
1. First the skin must be one the skinner wishes to upload to the site.
2. The site's Moderators must then check and approve the skin for public use.
3. The Community then has the opportunity to critique/provide feedback about the skin. [in the form of downloads, comments and ratings].
'3.' is the Community Input .... the social interaction .... the thing that differentiates Wincustomize.com from a Torrenter's download database.
If you diminish '3.' you diminish Wincustomize.com.
Searching a community database NEEDS a community-based search criterium....in this case it is by 'ratings'.....those which are applied BY THE COMMUNITY.
Take away that option and what....you set in place a search string that looks for key words in the comments....'Kewl skin, dude"?
When it comes to ratings, their application [or abuse] people need to 'grow a pair' and accept criticism [through ratings] just as they should likewise with "this skin sucks" comments. Skins are uploaded into the public domain and will attract opinions both good and bad. It is the same with all creative 'art'.
Now, ALL that being said, there has been NO FORMAL determination as to the future of ratings [in this form or any other].
As a site Administrator I'd love to see them gone...just to end the public 'angst', but as a site Administrator I see their real value too.
Rock and a hard place....
Reply #59 Monday, February 15, 2010 7:31 PM
Get rid of it, it serves no purpose, brings along too much baggage and invites everyone to whiiiiine far too much.
Reply #60 Monday, February 15, 2010 8:09 PM
I kinda like that idea, though I imagine it would be a pain in the butt to implement. You also have to consider that if it became to complicated, less people might be apt to even bother with it. But I do like it.
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Reply #41 Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:56 PM
...till the next day, when you're all bloated from the salt content.