Windows preloaded - don't even think of getting rid of it.
Wednesday, May 1, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Interesting article at The Register claims that Microsoft does not allow people to remove Windows from their machines.
WolfwoodX
Reply #2 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 9:27 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 9:27 PM
I will load what ever I want to on my PC. Microsoft dose not own my PC, it is mine. And what are they going to do about it? Nothing at all!
And about giving computers away, We give what we can. No, we need all documentation and software backup included in the donation. That's like a homeless shelter saying: "No, I'm sorry we cant accept this bed unless you have the warrantee for the matress. Oh, and I hope that this is the original matress/bedframe set... otherwise we can't let our homeless people sleep on it.... they'll have to stay sleeping on the concrete... and I hope you have the matching endtable too, because..."
Oh dear... I hope the company that makes the picture frame I bought doesn't get mad because I removed the fake picture and replaced it with my own photo.
Microsoft never ceases to disgust me.
And about giving computers away, We give what we can. No, we need all documentation and software backup included in the donation. That's like a homeless shelter saying: "No, I'm sorry we cant accept this bed unless you have the warrantee for the matress. Oh, and I hope that this is the original matress/bedframe set... otherwise we can't let our homeless people sleep on it.... they'll have to stay sleeping on the concrete... and I hope you have the matching endtable too, because..."
Oh dear... I hope the company that makes the picture frame I bought doesn't get mad because I removed the fake picture and replaced it with my own photo.
Microsoft never ceases to disgust me.
Entilza
Reply #3 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:10 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:10 PM
Great when my heardware breaks down or becomes faulty i will send microsoft the bill (no pun) then.
Since it is all covered under the one licence.
This makes microsoft responsable for the whole machine their os is installed on!
They have to replace a faulty products don't they ?
As if!.. it would be good though but i doubt it.
Since it is all covered under the one licence.
This makes microsoft responsable for the whole machine their os is installed on!
They have to replace a faulty products don't they ?
As if!.. it would be good though but i doubt it.
migellito
Reply #4 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:31 PM
Reply #4 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:31 PM
hmm.. if you visit the original ms site though, the last q&a question says it's fine to upgrade the os after you've bought it because you then 'own the machine and the software.' although this is obvious, it refutes the idea of not being able to change the os. if you own it, you can certainly format-c it.
michael havard
Reply #5 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:03 AM
Reply #5 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:03 AM
personally it sounds as if the reporter is taking disparate statements and merging them together to form an argument against MS. From reading the MS site it seems to make pretty clear sense and not be to far out of line.
When you purchased an OEM computer it came with an OS (package deal) that OS is non-transferable unless being transferred as packaged with the hardware. This keeps people from selling the hardware/installed software one place and selling the original media another place (I've seen this at computer shows).
One should be aware that when receiving OEM hardware that it most likely came with an OS, media, and license. Keeping track of a small box of disks and a booklet that usually has the license on it shouldn't be too difficult a feat. If the donor does not have the information it IS possible that the OS is fraudulently installed. It would be better legally for the group receiving the donation to steer clear of any issues where this might occur. Point in fact - the problem we are having now with BSA/audits.
I don't see anywhere that it states that the OS must be installed and/or cannot be uninstalled. I think it simply states that if it was originally packaged with an OS and software that the software and licensing should always remain with the equipment. If it does not then you might need to jump through hoops to show that you legally own what you have.
Again it's like taking a car donation, if you don't have the title you're going to be in trouble when you get pulled over driving the car. Especially if it turns out the car is stolen. How many people have we all seen on cops getting pulled over and saying "Nah Man this guy over down the street told me I could have it. I dunno I never met him before I think his name was Steve."
I get donations of equipment all the time. Alot of equipment I get comes with all the manuals, disks, and licensing and the few that don't
When you purchased an OEM computer it came with an OS (package deal) that OS is non-transferable unless being transferred as packaged with the hardware. This keeps people from selling the hardware/installed software one place and selling the original media another place (I've seen this at computer shows).
One should be aware that when receiving OEM hardware that it most likely came with an OS, media, and license. Keeping track of a small box of disks and a booklet that usually has the license on it shouldn't be too difficult a feat. If the donor does not have the information it IS possible that the OS is fraudulently installed. It would be better legally for the group receiving the donation to steer clear of any issues where this might occur. Point in fact - the problem we are having now with BSA/audits.
I don't see anywhere that it states that the OS must be installed and/or cannot be uninstalled. I think it simply states that if it was originally packaged with an OS and software that the software and licensing should always remain with the equipment. If it does not then you might need to jump through hoops to show that you legally own what you have.
Again it's like taking a car donation, if you don't have the title you're going to be in trouble when you get pulled over driving the car. Especially if it turns out the car is stolen. How many people have we all seen on cops getting pulled over and saying "Nah Man this guy over down the street told me I could have it. I dunno I never met him before I think his name was Steve."
I get donations of equipment all the time. Alot of equipment I get comes with all the manuals, disks, and licensing and the few that don't
Galfant
Reply #6 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:36 AM
Reply #6 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:36 AM
Lawyers, accountants, priests and politicians, the world would be a better place but for them.
When the corporate computer manufacturers go back to supplying full, registered versions of all installed software on a removable media, then I'll start worrying about transferring it when I sell or donate any equipment.
When the corporate computer manufacturers go back to supplying full, registered versions of all installed software on a removable media, then I'll start worrying about transferring it when I sell or donate any equipment.
Aleatoric
Reply #7 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:53 AM
Reply #7 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:53 AM
Quoted from Microsoft's own page:
"A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC. "
While the prima facie intent may be to specify that if a donated pc originally had an oem version of windows, and if windows is still installed on the pc, then it must have the license, this statement is worded in such a fashion as to be (apparently) intentionally confusing.
There is no legal requirement that says I may not buy a PC with an oem version of windows, and then throw that version of windows away, and install some other legally licensed operating system (Linux, OS2, BeOS, etc.). And there is no legal requirement that I may not donate said pc (with legal non-windows OS) to anyone who wishes to receive it. I do NOT need to provide the original oem version of windows in that case, regardless of what MS would wish.
This donation 'issue' is just like their other issue about 'Naked PC's'. Their whole argument about Naked PC's is that the user who gets one has no other option but to pirate an operating system. They make no distinction about other legitimate OS's that may be installed, legally.
This obtuseness is deliberate on the part of Microsoft, and it is done with the express intent of frightening the average user in an effort to prevent them from even considering another solution.
I'm pretty much OS agnostic, as I actively use 5 different systems, including windows, but I know many people who are VERY pro Microsoft who nonetheless think this whole issue about donations and naked pc's is a very bad move on Microsoft's part.
The automotive analogy above misses the mark, also. It is not as if you have a car without a title, it is more like you have a properly titled car that has an engine different from the one originally installed. No sensible person would argue that changing the engine in a car is automatically illegal, just because it isn't the one that came with it.
"A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC. "
While the prima facie intent may be to specify that if a donated pc originally had an oem version of windows, and if windows is still installed on the pc, then it must have the license, this statement is worded in such a fashion as to be (apparently) intentionally confusing.
There is no legal requirement that says I may not buy a PC with an oem version of windows, and then throw that version of windows away, and install some other legally licensed operating system (Linux, OS2, BeOS, etc.). And there is no legal requirement that I may not donate said pc (with legal non-windows OS) to anyone who wishes to receive it. I do NOT need to provide the original oem version of windows in that case, regardless of what MS would wish.
This donation 'issue' is just like their other issue about 'Naked PC's'. Their whole argument about Naked PC's is that the user who gets one has no other option but to pirate an operating system. They make no distinction about other legitimate OS's that may be installed, legally.
This obtuseness is deliberate on the part of Microsoft, and it is done with the express intent of frightening the average user in an effort to prevent them from even considering another solution.
I'm pretty much OS agnostic, as I actively use 5 different systems, including windows, but I know many people who are VERY pro Microsoft who nonetheless think this whole issue about donations and naked pc's is a very bad move on Microsoft's part.
The automotive analogy above misses the mark, also. It is not as if you have a car without a title, it is more like you have a properly titled car that has an engine different from the one originally installed. No sensible person would argue that changing the engine in a car is automatically illegal, just because it isn't the one that came with it.
craeonics
Reply #8 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:44 AM
Reply #8 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:44 AM
<obligatory gates-bashing>
The world according to Bill:
Windows <--> Savages & Barbarians
</obligatory gates-bashing>
The world according to Bill:
Windows <--> Savages & Barbarians
</obligatory gates-bashing>
Fuzzy Logic0087
Reply #9 Thursday, May 2, 2002 12:21 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, May 2, 2002 12:21 PM
If Microsoft don't believe in 'naked' PCs, then why do they sell Windows in a version for 'PCs without Windows'?
michael havard
Reply #10 Thursday, May 2, 2002 2:33 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, May 2, 2002 2:33 PM
Actually in alot of states if you change the engine in a car you do have to keep the documentation on it to show that you changed the engine out since there are identifying marks on both the vehicle body and the engine that identify the vehicle/mileage/state of repair. By keeping track of both sets of numbers and documentation it helps to track some stolen equipment or prove that you are not breaking the law by operating the equipment as you are.
Even though we state that this is an "Innocent until proven guilty" country it is very often the other way around.
Even though we state that this is an "Innocent until proven guilty" country it is very often the other way around.
Aleatoric
Reply #11 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:12 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:12 PM
You're correct about the engine issue. In the past, when it was my hobby to modify cars, the only real issue you had was to make sure that the new engine met the emissions standards for the year and make of car, and the state you lived in. And while it's a good idea to keep those numbers together, you won't automatically be suspected if you don't, it just places more of the burden of proof on you.
But back to the MS issue. What I'm saying is that while MS, when pushed, will admit that all these conditions mean is that you should obey the software license, the fact is that the way they word the issue (or the way their lawyers do), is specifically intended to cause confusion and doubt about accepting a legal donation of a computer without a Microsoft operating system.
The issue about Naked PC's came up a year or so ago, when MS decided to offer incentives to OEM's who informed MS about customers who bought PC's without operating systems. MS's stated reason for this was that they were concerned about customers who were confused about volume licensing issues, but all in all, it made them look pretty silly, and they had to back away from it a bit. They still raise this issue in their FAQ about volume licenses though.
I don't have a fundamental problem with MS, or with their software, which I mostly like (I wouldn't be visiting a site called WinCustomize if I were that much against Windows). The problem I have with them, and others, like the RIAA, etc., is the standard presumption on their part that their customers are thieves and scoundrels unless proven otherwise, and apparently, no level of proof seems to be enough.
Sooner or later, the customers will realize what low regard they are held in by these companies, and that behaviour will backfire on the companies. It is a poor business plan that will fail at some point.
But back to the MS issue. What I'm saying is that while MS, when pushed, will admit that all these conditions mean is that you should obey the software license, the fact is that the way they word the issue (or the way their lawyers do), is specifically intended to cause confusion and doubt about accepting a legal donation of a computer without a Microsoft operating system.
The issue about Naked PC's came up a year or so ago, when MS decided to offer incentives to OEM's who informed MS about customers who bought PC's without operating systems. MS's stated reason for this was that they were concerned about customers who were confused about volume licensing issues, but all in all, it made them look pretty silly, and they had to back away from it a bit. They still raise this issue in their FAQ about volume licenses though.
I don't have a fundamental problem with MS, or with their software, which I mostly like (I wouldn't be visiting a site called WinCustomize if I were that much against Windows). The problem I have with them, and others, like the RIAA, etc., is the standard presumption on their part that their customers are thieves and scoundrels unless proven otherwise, and apparently, no level of proof seems to be enough.
Sooner or later, the customers will realize what low regard they are held in by these companies, and that behaviour will backfire on the companies. It is a poor business plan that will fail at some point.
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Reply #1 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 7:49 PM