Lessons on Keeping Downloaders Honest
Tuesday, March 19, 2002 by T-Man | Discussion: WinCustomize News
How honest are people when they think nobody's looking?Rob Pegoraro, from the Washington Post, talks about software pirarcy in the shareware industry.
To view his story click on the following link.
paxx
Reply #2 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:33 AM
Reply #2 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:33 AM
Hum... Interesting article.
I should note that when I first discovered Windowblinds, I started making skins just for fun, to see if I could be any good at it. I only skinned the features of the free version since I didn't need the extended versions personnaly. I didn't care about the product that much to buy it, but I liked to skin for it.
So I got a pirated version of the full Windowblinds program solely to be able to make complete skins for other people.
I finally decided to purchase it when I found that I was starting to enjoy Windowblinds enough to justify the expense.
So, my own logic for using a pirated version of WB was that I didn't need it, I only wanted the full version in order to make complete skins for others. But after a while I got hooked and decided to legitimately purchase it. So, I guess, in some distorted way, you could say that warez eventually led me to purchase it.
I should note that when I first discovered Windowblinds, I started making skins just for fun, to see if I could be any good at it. I only skinned the features of the free version since I didn't need the extended versions personnaly. I didn't care about the product that much to buy it, but I liked to skin for it.
So I got a pirated version of the full Windowblinds program solely to be able to make complete skins for other people.I finally decided to purchase it when I found that I was starting to enjoy Windowblinds enough to justify the expense.
So, my own logic for using a pirated version of WB was that I didn't need it, I only wanted the full version in order to make complete skins for others. But after a while I got hooked and decided to legitimately purchase it. So, I guess, in some distorted way, you could say that warez eventually led me to purchase it.
keymastr1008
Reply #3 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:56 AM
Reply #3 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:56 AM
paxx - yes, distorted. you were stealing for whatever reason.... doesn't really matter why. i'm not trying to say you're a bad person - because i've done the same thing. just don't try to sugar-coat what you did or rationalize it.
i really think it's a matter of convienence as was stated in the article. in the past, when i have ventured out looking for cracks, or pirated versions... i have to weight just how much time it's going to take to find what i'm looking for as opposed to just paying for it and being done with it. for WB, i didn't have to think at all, since i am so in love with the apps made by stardock. but for other apps that i might only causually use, i might spend a little time looking for a free handout... and i'm not defending my actions... plain and simple, i'm stealing software when i do this.
i was really surprised by the statistics... that's extremely low registration numbers.
i really think it's a matter of convienence as was stated in the article. in the past, when i have ventured out looking for cracks, or pirated versions... i have to weight just how much time it's going to take to find what i'm looking for as opposed to just paying for it and being done with it. for WB, i didn't have to think at all, since i am so in love with the apps made by stardock. but for other apps that i might only causually use, i might spend a little time looking for a free handout... and i'm not defending my actions... plain and simple, i'm stealing software when i do this.
i was really surprised by the statistics... that's extremely low registration numbers.
T-Man
Reply #4 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:13 PM
Reply #4 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:13 PM
Out of curiousity, what is the best nag system that you have encountered that makes you buy a product.
For me, I was using a search and replace tool that would only allow you to edit 5 files during one session. You would then have to close and reopen the program in order to continue replacing your files. At first I was able to live with that but after I started using it more and more it was finally enough that I ventured out and purchased the program.
Not every shareware program can use that exact method but it was effective and could probably be modified. Take WindowBlinds for example, it could come with 5 default skins and you could only install maybe 5 additional skins. After that you would have to delete existing skins before you could add new ones.
Anyway, what scheme tends to make you purchase shareware?
For me, I was using a search and replace tool that would only allow you to edit 5 files during one session. You would then have to close and reopen the program in order to continue replacing your files. At first I was able to live with that but after I started using it more and more it was finally enough that I ventured out and purchased the program.
Not every shareware program can use that exact method but it was effective and could probably be modified. Take WindowBlinds for example, it could come with 5 default skins and you could only install maybe 5 additional skins. After that you would have to delete existing skins before you could add new ones.
Anyway, what scheme tends to make you purchase shareware?
paxx
Reply #5 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:25 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:25 PM
Hum, personnaly, it's use. If I use it, I buy it. As I said before, it's when I started realizing that I loved WB so much that I decided to buy it, and it's the same for every shareware I bought.
At first I didn't care about WB much, I just loved skinning it. I would only load it up when creating a skin. Then it grew on me.
At first I didn't care about WB much, I just loved skinning it. I would only load it up when creating a skin. Then it grew on me.
keymastr1008
Reply #6 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:21 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:21 PM
t-man - i register software depending on how useful it is - compared to how much it cost... and my ability to live with the nags. if it's only a simple few seconds nag delay screen, then it's likely i won't register - even if it is useful.
some things i just feel like buying though. i even bought the realone player by Real Networks. i liked it, and it wasn't very expensive. i don't even think they had nag screens on the shareware version. if it's software i really like, i'll buy it.
some things i just feel like buying though. i even bought the realone player by Real Networks. i liked it, and it wasn't very expensive. i don't even think they had nag screens on the shareware version. if it's software i really like, i'll buy it.
grayhaze
Reply #7 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:01 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:01 PM
In my opinion, nag screens actually put me off paying out for the full version, as they tend to get in the way of trying out the software properly and so I just use it once and then delete it. I'd say the only things that really convince me to pay for something is if it's so good that I find myself using it on a daily basis, and if it has a trial expiry period that's long enough that I forget it's a trial while using it more and more until the day it shuts down and I realise just how much I need it.
In my opinion, irritants don't work but quality does.
In my opinion, irritants don't work but quality does.
grayhaze
Reply #8 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:11 PM
Reply #8 Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:11 PM
On the subject of using pirated software to trial a product before shelling out for it, I'd have to admit to doing the same. Only in my case, it wasn't shareware but rather software that cost in excess of $500 to purchase. I think in a way that's how a lot of graphic designers start out. They use pirated software until they get their first big contract from a client, and then use the money from that job to buy legitimate copies. I'm not advocating the use of pirated software indefinately without ever buying the full product, but if it weren't for pirated software a lot of design professionals would never have the tools to learn the trade in the first place. It's no coincidence that the majority of illegal software you can find online these days are design or web related products.
As for games, I take the other view. If you really feel you can't afford to pay out $20 for a game, then do you really need that game? I think that side of the warez scene really does drain the money out of the industry. I've seen games companies and whole computer manufacturers go out of business because of over-use of pirated games. Anyone remember the Amiga?
Perhaps I got a bit off topic there, but it's all the same line of thought...
As for games, I take the other view. If you really feel you can't afford to pay out $20 for a game, then do you really need that game? I think that side of the warez scene really does drain the money out of the industry. I've seen games companies and whole computer manufacturers go out of business because of over-use of pirated games. Anyone remember the Amiga?
Perhaps I got a bit off topic there, but it's all the same line of thought...
craeonics
Reply #9 Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:19 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:19 AM
Technically stealing, yes, but it sure doesn't "feel" like it. In my book when something is stolen, the thief now has it and the owner doesn't. Not the case with software, which is more like a copy of a book. You haven't stolen the book, but you are infringing on copyright and such.
paxx
Reply #10 Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:41 AM
Reply #10 Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:41 AM
20$ for a game?? Is that what it costs in the US?? Wow, if that was the price, I'd buy way more games, but the fact is that good games are around 70 to 80$ here. And that's totally ridiculous, no matter how good the game is. I get my games for christmas or I co-buy them with friends.For a group of 4, that comes to 20$ an that's perfectly reasonnable.
pjpowell
Reply #11 Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:07 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:07 AM
Personally I avoid cut down versions of software and usually avoid nag screens. Convenience of paying for a piece of software is the main reason I buy a specific piece of software. I live in the UK and have no Credit Card. My Dad has one which he lets me use very occasionally. (Usually once a year to pay Stardock 
) If I had a credit card I probably would buy a lot more. I can use my debit card for most software that is UK based but anything that is credit card/cheque only I tend to not purchase. I dislike the hassle of money orders or cheques. If a piece of software is available in the UK and does the same thing as one that is US based but costs twice as much I would probably buy the UK based one.
) If I had a credit card I probably would buy a lot more. I can use my debit card for most software that is UK based but anything that is credit card/cheque only I tend to not purchase. I dislike the hassle of money orders or cheques. If a piece of software is available in the UK and does the same thing as one that is US based but costs twice as much I would probably buy the UK based one.
Red Wizard
Reply #12 Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:16 AM
Reply #12 Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:16 AM
I avoid "begware" like the plague. Nag screens turn me off faster than anything.
Editorial Question: Honets? What's that?
Editorial Question: Honets? What's that?
feline
Reply #13 Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:27 AM
Reply #13 Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:27 AM
if software is worth using, affordable, and worth the money i will look to purchase it.
however, the point about "easy to purchase" is a very good one. the other one is trusting the company. it is easy for a website to say that regular updates are provided and covered by the purchase price, but this doesnt always make it so.
i think the best one i have seen recently was an on line order form that displayed a window in the middle of the screen that told me i was using a secure conneciton, and asked for my credit card number. however, there was no padlock in IE, and no sign of a certificate indicating this really was a secure connection.
it may just be me, but there was no way i was giving out an on line order under those sort of conditions. not a good way to engender trust
however, the point about "easy to purchase" is a very good one. the other one is trusting the company. it is easy for a website to say that regular updates are provided and covered by the purchase price, but this doesnt always make it so.
i think the best one i have seen recently was an on line order form that displayed a window in the middle of the screen that told me i was using a secure conneciton, and asked for my credit card number. however, there was no padlock in IE, and no sign of a certificate indicating this really was a secure connection.
it may just be me, but there was no way i was giving out an on line order under those sort of conditions. not a good way to engender trust
Firestorm
Reply #14 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:26 PM
Reply #14 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:26 PM
The one thing I don't recommend to shareware authors is to give customers the full but "locked" version of the product. Software is cracked very easily these days. Make the shareqware version truly incomplete. When the client buys it, SHIP the full version to them. "Rwegistration codes" that unlock all the features in a program are risky for developers.
As for what method works best to encourage registration... Time limits. If the person really needs to program, they have no choice but to pay.
As for what method works best to encourage registration... Time limits. If the person really needs to program, they have no choice but to pay.
Firestorm
Reply #15 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:27 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:27 PM
That's a lot of typos for such a short message 
"shareware"
"Registration codes"
"If the person reallu needs THE program..."
"shareware"
"Registration codes"
"If the person reallu needs THE program..."
Firestorm
Reply #16 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:28 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:28 PM
I did it again. Sorry, folks. Woke up ten minutes ago. Jafo will take me out in the parking lot and execute me now.
MGJohn
Reply #17 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:36 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:36 PM
Interesting views on this subject. There is one mindset that does irk me, though. Comments like this: "good games are around 70 to 80$ here. And that's totally ridiculous, no matter how good the game is." I don't understand this. Someone creates a game and prices it at $70. What gives anyone the right to "decide" that this game is much too expensive and to use that decision as justification for sharing or even using a cracked version? Do you know how much work went into the game? How much time it took to build it? Consider this: I would absolutely love a brand new convertible Corvette. But, $40K is way too much to pay for this car, so I'll just take one instead. That, in my opinion, is not right. Anyway, I'm certainly not bashing anyone. There were many interesting views in this thread. My personal views are that if I find something too expensive, I won't buy it and will find alternate solutions.
John
John
paxx
Reply #18 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:54 PM
Reply #18 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:54 PM
If I want a corvette and want to split the cost among 4 friends is my business.
The main difference is that a corvette lasts a long time and we'd be fihgting to know who gets to keep it. While in a game, once we play it once, it's no good and we can just give it to the next person in turn.
The main difference is that a corvette lasts a long time and we'd be fihgting to know who gets to keep it. While in a game, once we play it once, it's no good and we can just give it to the next person in turn.
paxx
Reply #19 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:57 PM
Reply #19 Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:57 PM
And just to pick up on why I think 80$ is too much for a game, it's because most games don't last very long. 2 weeks and they're done with. 80$ for that is too much.
Bluehawkk
Reply #20 Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:50 AM
WOW!!!! $80 for a game jeese!!!
that's like PSYCHO!!!!
Reply #20 Sunday, September 15, 2002 11:50 AM
WOW!!!! $80 for a game jeese!!!that's like PSYCHO!!!!
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Reply #1 Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:05 PM
I found one line in the article that brings a question to mind. it is:
"Finally, shareware fees go almost directly to the developer."
I wonder what the statistics show about reported income from the sale of shareware?