I know HG, it would just be weird if none of you were here as Mods, what I mean is, I LOVE YOU GUYS

I've been a member of a lot of forums, and ran a few over the years, and moderated some big sites, and you guys do this with integrity, and that is a rare thing..

I've seen people who are just power hungry, ban-happy, full-of-themselves Mods.. but not you guys, you give Mods a good name

Zubaz nails it on the forehead

Im not a skinner but I think I have a good eye for what looks good and I like dressing up my desktop, home, and workplace. Since discovering Stardock and this site about two years ago, Im now hooked, and like an addict, visit every day to see whats happening, read the forums, post occasionally and see what skins have come out.

Ive purchased all the software, some master skins and a subscription to WC, so even though I dont have skins to share, I dont consider myself a 'user'. I suppose you could say that I live on the outskirts of this community. Who knows, maybe someday, coding wont scare me off and I'll be able to physically create the designs in my head and share them in return.

I do plan on renewing later this week, because its a small price to pay for what I get in return. But I have to say that this post by 'Frogboy' is a bit disconcerting. I think a bit of honey would draw in more subscribers. So, heres my plea ....spiff the site up a bit, keep the forums and great skin galleries, maybe have a quicker preview option (please keep the rainlender gallery). But please don't become too commercial and lose the personal quality this site offers.

[edited to 'fix' -admin]

Agreed, someone hire this guy

The timing of this thread may not have been the best (a day or so into the subscription drive), but I see it as heralding in changes that were going to happen anyway.  Past subscription drives have failed to attract the funds required to run a site visited by thousands of drive-by skin hunters every day, so it makes sense to have the third-party galleries turned off by default to non-subscribers in order to help reduce non-paying site traffic, thus freeing up bandwidth and placing greater focus on Stardock products.

Will this affect WC subscribers?  No, not according to what Brad is saying... subscribers would still be able to activate and access 3rd-party galleries of interest to them.

Will this mean the forums go?  No, the forums serve as indicators to consumer sentiment/confidence, etc, and allow for customer feedback and suggestions to better enable Stardock provide quality goods and services.  Furthermore, Brad/Stardock realise that long-term customers and hardcore skinners need to feel a sense of community and belonging, so Stardock is highly unlikely to drive paying customers elsewhere by closing the forums.

However, having said that, the forums have been quite dead of late and, apart from the 50 or lees users Zubaz alludes to, people have been staying away in droves.  Apart from the game threads and the handful who perpetuate them, forum activity is at an all-time low from when I first joined WC, so if there are concerns/fears the forums will close, give Stardock a reason to keep them open and participate more frequently.

By merging the site to Stardock and making it a pure commercial/business venture you are taking away a big incentive (for me, but maybe for others too) for subscribing to WC. That is "supporting the skinners" now becomes suddenly "supporting a commercial business".

Not sure how to react to that...

Sorta sounds like that to me to, but I don't have a business mind. Will the forums stay intact? Will we still have PM's and community dialogs, and such. Or is WC going Commercial?

 I must say that the skinning community will remain, because,Stardock Designs alone, no matter how good they are, can't create the skins in the quality, and quantity we all are used to. And the people getting thier skins, if you will, is what makes Stardock what it is. If people can't skin Windowblinds, then why have it.  No, the skinning community will be ok. I know that much. The forums and stuff will probably be more like ImpulseDriven.com or that kind of thing, is my guess. I like the old way better, hell I still cling tightly to WC Browser. It has the right feel. But Progress progresses.

I can't see anything from page 3 anymore, it's taken an hour to try and post, had to view page source to see the posts

Similar here TC. I think it's fixed tho. 

I'm not really sure how much it is going to help achieve a monetary goal (that is ridiculous IMO), by making posts called "The end of WinCustomize". But hey, it's your site.

I believe Frogboy is right though. Maybe it's time to pass on the torch to other sites, and other skinners who aren't so interested in profit. There are a large number of freeware, and open source programs out there that can do most of this anyways. I'm sure they would appreciate the support that Stardock & WinCustomize has received.

I find it curious that a $50,000 "upgrade" is suddenly so mandatory - but it is your site.

Maybe it would be best if everyone spends their time working on building a community elsewhere. Somewhere we aren't getting blamed for the profiteering delusions of a person who continually blames the community that has been supporting his companies & sites.

$50,000!? - GMAFB

As far as the "no ads" pitch that pushes people to get subscriptions, I remember last year. I remember an attempt to push ads on the subscribers after they subscribed. There are also ads that are pushed in the form of "Master Skins". Never mind the adware that is Impulse, and the ads that are sent out by Stardock & their "3rd party affiliations". Nothing is off limits when it comes to increasing profits.

Since Stardock wants to usher in the new year with a 30 day notice of extinction to this site, I say it's time to pick another and move on. Stardock clearly doesn't value this site, Object Desktop, its visitors/members/subscribers anyways.

Let's all pick our favorite "non-user-blaming" sites & choose one to congregate at from now on. We are all squatters here apparently.

This kind of greed & insularity is offensive.

I just found out about the subscription drive today. I may have considered subscribing before I read this crap. Having read this though, I would rather donate it to AIG.

I find this quite troubling as I just re subscribed before reading this post and now, I am not at all sure what I have subscribed to!  If I had read this post first I would not have subscribed again although I am already well subscribed into the future. I feel like I have just been had.  Feel like I just bought a car from GM right before they announce they are closing out the model that I thought I was buying.

Nobody has announced any changes.

Brads post is talking about what might happen in the future if the subscription drive is unsuccessful.

There are still 53 days to go and personally I don't think it is fair to judge the success of it after a single day especially when that day is the first day back to work for some people.

Even in the worst case scenario I do not see the forums going anywhere simply because the very same forums are used at WC, SD support site, joeuser etc.

If you read frogboys other posts within this thread he puts much of the questions to rest. Hes not saying the community is not valuable to SD. Nor is saying that the members are greedy and dont do their best to contribute to WC, or blaiming the supporters for the lack of funding, its a size issue really.

WC when created it was a free site to all.* skinning was a niche back then* But as the popularity grew and costs rose, the need for subscriptions etc. was implemented to off set these expences. As the user base grew still, other sources of revenues were necessary to try and cover the rappidly growing costs of the site. While the Suporter base has grown over the years, the numbers of visitors to the site has grown so large compared to the subscriber base that the subscribers can not and have not been able to keep the site self sufficient.

With over 3 mil registered members and much less than that in actual subscribers, the revenues by subscribers do not cover the site costs.

I think the Sub drive could be sucessful, but we really need new subscribers to build the subscriber base, as well as any current subscribers who wish to resub early, to off set the growth.

If it is not, and SD has to foot much of the bill, I do not see WC being closed up. Just that if it is deemed, we may see some changes in the venue of its layout and content, being aimed more toward a SD site than a neutral site hosting all skinning apps skins etc.

I wouldnt go running off, as it remains to be seen how this will all turn out.

Guess we'll never know now though. Regardless of any reasons why things "could" change...this discussion was premature and more than likely scared off any new or re-subscribers. This type of post should have been left for the last 2 or 3 days of the drive...not the first 1 or 2 days into it. I think the best thing anyone could do is delete this whole post until after the drive...if for no other reason than to at least give it a chance. But hey....what do I know!

In reading some of the posts here, it appears some are reading more into Brad's thoughts/ideas than what was being spoken of regarding the future of WC.  Yes, the thread title sounds ominous and perhaps could have been worded better, but the end of WC is not envisaged, I'm sure... just the closure of 3rd-party galleries to drive-by skin hunters, as these take up valuable bandwidth and have become no longer viable in the Stardock scheme of things.

The Wincustomize we've come to know and love will pretty much remain the same for those who are subscribers, with a few cosmetic and functional changes to enhance usability, etc.  I mean, look at it logically, can you really see Stardock closing the doors on what has become a storefront and the major showcase for its skinning apps and what can be done with them?  To shut down WC would be like shooting themselves in the foot, and Stardock isn't going to do that because Brad knows there needs to be some form of community centred around the products which are his bread and butter....

Wincustomize IS that community... and I don't see it going anywhere any time soon.  My one hope is that it is not incorporated into Impulse, which is great as a storefront and download manager.... just not as a browser.  I much prefer to browse WC via the tabbed browser of choice (Firefox), thus allowing me to browse other sites at the same time with just the one app.

Oh what a great post to read after my busy project!

Would u please tell what changes are planned in detail?

I am inexperienced enough to say whether it will be bad or good... but if WC, more importantly the people here will not be there I will miss them... Its good to have a skinning community but it might be true that skinning is losing the race with business...

But I am more worried for those who have spent more years here.....I have been at WC for just 10 months...

MY UNANSWERED QUESTION IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

Oh what a great post to read after my busy project!

Would u please tell what changes are planned in detail?

I am inexperienced enough to say whether it will be bad or good... but if WC, more importantly the people here will not be there I will miss them... Its good to have a skinning community but it might be true that skinning is losing the race with business...

But I am more worried for those who have spent more years here.....I have been at WC for just 10 months...

MY UNANSWERED QUESTION IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

Ironical that this thread broke.

It's not every day [lately] that a new thread [posted today] gets to page 3 before I've even seen it....not unless it's yet another quasi-political rant.....

It's actually refreshing to see a Community-based General Discussion thread actually sparking interest and respondents.

For some of us here it's Year Eight of Wincustomize.com.  A lot has changed...and a lot is likely yet to change.

The 'bottom line' will always be a balance between 'hobbyist fun' and 'commercial sustainability' - one that shouldn't be bolstered by people such as site Admins/Mods themselves Subscribing beyond the next millennia - [I think I'm good till 2010 or 11 already] - but should ideally be self-propagating.

Stardock's sites have 3.4 million members.  That's a lot.  If you ignore Deviantart [the majority of whom are NOT skinning-involved but are 'just' into art] there IS no comparable site to this one.

None.

Re the non-Stardock-related galleries/skins....if you have one here it will be accessible/visible to more people than all the other skinning sites combined.  There's fame/popularity/value for you that cannot be replaced elsewhere.

Of course, if anyone wants to fire up a brand new skinning site.....hire rent-a-crowd for a community and attain a New Golden Age of skinning....then go for it.....but it'll fail.  Skinning has changed.  No matter how much we lament the passing of 'the good old days' [of the 90's] ....they passed.

Perhaps this thread is a wake-up call to the WC Community....to think about exactly what they really 'want' ....

Well said Jafo, but it's simple, I want the Community to grow, not be hidden away.. and people are trying their hardest to keep it together, and to support WC, as a lot of posts show, they/we are just worried or 'concerned' that it may ceast to exist.. I don't care if skins for Xion, or other non-Stardock related products, aren't a visible link on the main site [Hell I don't even know wth Xion is lol].. Community AND Stardock.. hand in hand.. not too corporate-like, that it loses the personal touch it has now.