This all sounds like I need to renew my sub at Deviante Art...

Makes me feel like I've been ripped or something?

Hum - this is not very good reading for any part as I see it here at the community...

What the hell is going on?

As long as the Forums are maintained and New Skinners are encouraged it should be OK.  Stardock and Wincustomize have become so interwined, it might as well be formalized.

Or the old ones! But we won't go there. 

If authors titled their uploads as "[WIP] - name of skin" they could be searched for and handled that way.

One question no one has asked, that I know will be of special interest to Zubaz:  What will happen to our Karma points?!!!! 

Another one Jim would be will there be a speel chker?

That's not going to help anything. The whole idea was to provide a centralized tutoring\feedback area where users could receive honest feedback on bugs, usabilty issues, get suggestions and most importantly have the folks doing the critiquing remain anonymous if they so chose to.

I didn't expect anything to change on the WIP front anyway  and everyone wonders why a lot of new skinners give up or produce low qual skins.

The process certainly isn't working right now.

Hopefully the karma idea will be rethought or nixed, its turned into a bad idea imo, folks running around giving out karma for really no valid reason at all, I guess it's some fun to some folks, I'm not totally against it but given the choice I could reset mine or have it not show at all.

I think it polarizes.

To me it's mostly just for fun, and just one more way to give Zu a hard time.

The webform/template idea vStyler suggests is the best idea to promote coherent, constructive critiques. I'm a member of a writing site that does this, and it could be easily implemented for WBs, since there is a standard for what things should be skinned (buttons, window, start menu, taskbar, etc.)

The reason a WIP area is be needed is to distinguish the lazy from the honest skinner...sometimes a skinner who posts in the gallery is not looking for or open to any crits, whereas we know someone posting in a WIP area will listen to what others have to say; this encourages Journeymen and Masters to put in their time as they know their advice isn't falling on deaf ears.

Further still, and recalling my experience on the writing site, I think you should get credits or karma points for submitting a critique as another incentive to help (of course,the points would actually have to be WORTH something )

I believe this is the key to why people give out KP left and right for no appearent reason. KP seems to have no value. If they did, I for one, would think more on who I gave it to and for what. It just isn't taken seriously, I am uncertain as to whether it was ever meant to be.

Sorry.  Calling bullhsit (or at least a valid opposing view).

If an artist labelled thier work as [WIP] that wopuld be opening it up for critique.  If not, do or don't; it's a(n assumed) full release.  And anonymous critique just invites abuse.

Again, the screenshot gallery used to be used as a WIP gallery for UI.  It could be again.  And the WB gallery could be used for live builds.  No one is stoipping anyone from uploading WIPs and inviting feedback.

Creative people find solutions and don't always have to wait for others. 

Sorry I wasn't being creative...

I'll put it another way, I'm giving an idea from an artist's point of view, one that has made his way up via feedback from many sources, over the years..incuding some very harsh comments, which from experience I can honestly say helped me greatly.

I'm putting forth a good idea, that will help if done correctly, but it seems its better to just 'workaround' the problem instead of solving it.

Thats not being creative, thats being apathetic.

I suppose I can understand the opposition to the idea coming from a non-artist, perhaps I haven't explained it as well as I could have.

I'd like to know how many up and coming artists would think its a good idea or whether the status quo is more productive.

Instead of offering a work around that ..wont.. work..imo.. perhaps explain why what is being suggested couldn't be at least considered seriously.

I highly doubt an area for consdtructive and healthy criticism would be abused, doesn't make sense..Users act abusive in teh galleries after downloading a half finished skin... anyway.. overly harsh critique can be very effective... or just monitored, ignored. Even someone choosing to be anon. can be warned as the site would know who was posting. , As much as anonymity may invite abuse, it also invites honesty.

It would however be a place the experienced skinners could visit to provide real help and structured to encourage learning...and teaching.

It's a good idea staring you right in the face that goes to the heart of one of the main problems facing Stardock moving forward.. new talent.

Where there is a will there's a way.

I'm not against a WIP section like you describe it.  But who knows if that would be implemted or not.

My suggestion could be done TODAY!  And as a template of what might be done later (better).

I'm not an artist . .but I work with many peopel using tools that don't always do what they need and I do endeavor to achieve goals with what's available.  As always, my best work [however poor it may be].

Well, fair enough, the idea is out there

That's gonna be the bit I'll always have issue with....no matter what form of WIP differentiation/section there is.

The phrase 'overly harsh' is self-explanatory....if it's 'overly' anything it's not going to be either acceptable or beneficial to anyone.

Precise/accurate/blunt/terse may be OK....but not 'overly'-whatever.

You can't always rely on the notion that one's own expertise allows liberal comment or criticism of another.  Maybe that combined with real familiarity/friendship just might.

If treetog said to me "that looks like shit, Paul"...I'd accept it as probably correct, not just critical..... but that's because I personally respect his opinion, good or bad.

I don't know how a similar comment by me would be taken by others.  Some may accept my experience with skinning [and its moderation] may mean I'm harsh/critical but the opinion is respected....but I bet there will be many who'll just think 'WTF does he know?'.

Bottom line is....it's not about taking the heat and/or keeping out of the kitchen.... it's about criticism that improves both the giver AND the recipient....

If you feel that there would be too much unconstructive commenting, why not have that area available to skinners to upload their WIP, but only someone with rank (say, Master Apprentice and above) can advise, give tips, etc. That would reduce the number of nonconstructive comments and allow skinners to get the feedback they need.

Well, no need to emphasize 'overly'.. that's not the point, I just threw it in there as worst case. Any criticism can be ignored if someone feels it should be. If any one person is being 'overly' anything, then moderate.. it.

Shouldn't ... not ..consider\implement an idea because of a singular negative.

It's about the core idea.

Perhaps limit the critique to those at higher levels? You would assume those people would be more likely to offer better assistance anyway as well as a more suitable attitude.