What Has Happened To DesktopX?
Lack of Activity
Friday, May 9, 2008 by PuterDudeJim | Discussion: DesktopX
I am just wondering what has happened to the interest in DesktopX themes lately? No one seems to be putting out any new themes. I love making the themes but was noticing that interest seems to be fading.I really hope that does not happen. I will miss DX themes terribly. I am trying real hard to think more "outside the box" when making new themes.
Someone recently told me in an email , from support, I think, that Stardock isn't happy with the direction DesktopX is taking. No, I reiterate, it was a fellow skinner. Anyway, I thought writing this may get some answers, or at least bring attention to the recent shortage of themes being made. I think this is my first article, if it can be called that...lol. Maybe it should have been for the forum?
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RedRaven
Reply #22 Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:08 PM
Reply #22 Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:08 PM
Thank you Wizard. 
SViz - Hehe, I think you said what I was trying to say and didn't actually say. I'll just contact you to "ghost write" my posts in the future,okay?
That's a part of what I meant when I was saying that few themes seem to work and/or meet my needs. A lot of themes have tons of neat buttons and gizmos, and they're neat to look at for a minute, but actually using them is a nightmare. I don't want to have to click 37 things just to open a program. I think a lot of people don't get the form vs. function balance quite right. I personally really don't want aliens or Star Trek or Harry Potter or some kind of car on my desktop. Just not my thing. I mostly like to keep it neutral. However, it seems like many of the more neutral/functional themes are... hmm... kinda dull and similar. (Though at least most of them do work). So, personally when I'm browsing for themes, I tend to go... "Well this one would be great if it wasn't ugly/boring/orange/etc.," or "Well this one is pretty, but it's annoying to use." (There are exceptions of course - I've seen a few that really impressed me, but just weren't my style).
And for a new user, that's certainly a deterrent. Honestly, 99% of the time I've had DX, I haven't been actually using it. (And I'm not even a newbie). I'll try working with a theme for a few days and get annoyed by those issues. So then I just go try to design something I could use the way I want. I get busy or into something else and... well that's the end of my DX phase for a while.
And, logically, if people aren't using the program, they aren't going to take the time to theme for it. I want to browse for themes and regularly see a couple that are so amazing that it inspires me to see what I can do. *shrug*
RR
SViz - Hehe, I think you said what I was trying to say and didn't actually say. I'll just contact you to "ghost write" my posts in the future,okay?
That's a part of what I meant when I was saying that few themes seem to work and/or meet my needs. A lot of themes have tons of neat buttons and gizmos, and they're neat to look at for a minute, but actually using them is a nightmare. I don't want to have to click 37 things just to open a program. I think a lot of people don't get the form vs. function balance quite right. I personally really don't want aliens or Star Trek or Harry Potter or some kind of car on my desktop. Just not my thing. I mostly like to keep it neutral. However, it seems like many of the more neutral/functional themes are... hmm... kinda dull and similar. (Though at least most of them do work). So, personally when I'm browsing for themes, I tend to go... "Well this one would be great if it wasn't ugly/boring/orange/etc.," or "Well this one is pretty, but it's annoying to use." (There are exceptions of course - I've seen a few that really impressed me, but just weren't my style).
And for a new user, that's certainly a deterrent. Honestly, 99% of the time I've had DX, I haven't been actually using it. (And I'm not even a newbie). I'll try working with a theme for a few days and get annoyed by those issues. So then I just go try to design something I could use the way I want. I get busy or into something else and... well that's the end of my DX phase for a while.
And, logically, if people aren't using the program, they aren't going to take the time to theme for it. I want to browse for themes and regularly see a couple that are so amazing that it inspires me to see what I can do. *shrug*
RR
sViz
Reply #23 Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:53 PM
So true. There have got to be better examples of DX stuff to inspire people to not only use the product but also want to try their hand at making things too. That's what I see happening with WB. You see something really outstanding and go, "I wanna do that too!" Not so, in DX land.
Reply #23 Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:53 PM
And, logically, if people aren't using the program, they aren't going to take the time to theme for it. I want to browse for themes and regularly see a couple that are so amazing that it inspires me to see what I can do.
So true. There have got to be better examples of DX stuff to inspire people to not only use the product but also want to try their hand at making things too. That's what I see happening with WB. You see something really outstanding and go, "I wanna do that too!" Not so, in DX land.
ZubaZ
Reply #25 Saturday, May 10, 2008 7:21 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, May 10, 2008 7:21 PM
This conversation reminds me of one from the ObjectBar past: http://zubaz.wincustomize.com/articles.aspx?aid=139206#1095696
There's power users and simple users and so much in between.
A useful DX theme fits like hand-made kid gloves. Most don't but are too hard for the casual user to configure.
A perfect theme to me would launch with a menu system. After selecting what I want it would go out an download those other components or scripts. And to pick a RomanDA scab . . . it would be skinnable.
The nearest thing to a near-perfect theme: https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=3223&libid=31
Simple, functional.
There's power users and simple users and so much in between.
A useful DX theme fits like hand-made kid gloves. Most don't but are too hard for the casual user to configure.
A perfect theme to me would launch with a menu system. After selecting what I want it would go out an download those other components or scripts. And to pick a RomanDA scab . . . it would be skinnable.
The nearest thing to a near-perfect theme: https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=3223&libid=31
Simple, functional.
Wizard1956
Reply #26 Saturday, May 10, 2008 7:25 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, May 10, 2008 7:25 PM
Another idea(two in one day, now my head hurts!)What about themes built to use dreams instead of a static wall. Think about it,a live desktop.Has that been done before? I'm talentless so I can only imagine. 
Maybe instead of"code" you should call it "alphanumeric art"
inspire people to not only use the product but also want to try their hand at making things too. That's what I see happening with WB.
Maybe instead of"code" you should call it "alphanumeric art"
RedRaven
Reply #27 Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:41 AM
Hehe, that does sound rather more appealing. I have a few old themes I saved for inspiration that really are works of art - you could hang 'em in a gallery and no one would know different. Unfortunately they are rather fiddly to actually use. 
Sorry, off-topic, but since were discussing resolution independence - anyone able to point me to a good tutorial on the subject? I've only been able to track down one and it wasn't very helpful.
Thanks - RR
Reply #27 Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:41 AM
Maybe instead of"code" you should call it "alphanumeric art"
Hehe, that does sound rather more appealing.
I have a few old themes I saved for inspiration that really are works of art - you could hang 'em in a gallery and no one would know different. Unfortunately they are rather fiddly to actually use. 
Sorry, off-topic, but since were discussing resolution independence - anyone able to point me to a good tutorial on the subject? I've only been able to track down one and it wasn't very helpful.
Thanks - RR
ZubaZ
Reply #28 Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:32 PM
Reply #28 Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:32 PM
Sorry, off-topic, but since were discussing resolution independence - anyone able to point me to a good tutorial on the subject? I've only been able to track down one and it wasn't very helpful.
Was it Quentin's (AirleenDesign)? I know he did one.
PuterDudeJim
Reply #29 Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:44 PM
Silly me. Don't know that a forum post IS an article.
Reply #29 Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:44 PM
I think this is my first article, if it can be called that...lol. Maybe it should have been for the forum?
Silly me. Don't know that a forum post IS an article.
RomanDA
Reply #31 Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:37 PM
Reply #31 Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:37 PM
I think a lot of the issues with DX have been covered over and over on the forums.
DX "things" fall into 3 categories (as i see them).
1. weather/clocks/Cals - SKINS - taking an existing widget, changing the location of the items in it, and calling it a new "widget". To me thats SKINNING, not Widget "creation". There are some AMAZING ones out there, but i think DX is so much more.
2. Themes - these are desktop replacements. there are a lot of these out there that are really cool, and i think the main problem with these have been pointed out here, RESOLUTION. The thing is, that could be fixed, but it takes programming, and i think a lot of the people making the themes are not programmers (I could be wrong). Again, this is a plus and a minus of DX. ANYONE can make things with it, but to make it sing it takes more that just images.
3. Gadgets/Widgets - These are truly UNIQUE and USEFUL Self contained PROGRAMS with a Visual Interface. These take a LOT of programming skill, and also a keen eye for graphics to make them visually appealing. The big problem here is that not every skinner is a programmer and vice versa. I myself enjoy the programming end, and HATE the graphics end of things. This is why recently I have tried to work with REAL graphics people (VStyler for one).
The main reason I see the "fall off" in DX is that there are only so many weather / clock / cal "widgets" the gallery can handle, after that other widgets get lost. After putting weeks or months into a widget or gadget; you post it, think its amazing, and in 2 days its on page 3 buried by more and more of the exact same "skinned" widget. So whats the point. You work your A$$ off, make something totally unique, something no one had done before, and no one cares, all they want is another weather widget that matches their "current" skin. Hey, thats what the public wants, and so people provide it, im not faulting anyone that does this, everything has its place.
So i have given up making things for the masses.
I make things that:
1. i like and think are cool
2. i would use for myself
3. something i can SELL - YES look i want to make some $$, shoot me, dont like it, dont buy it!
If you want to revitalize DX you need to do the following:
1. SPLIT THE DANG GALLERY!!! - i have pushed this for 3 years, and its still the same. MOVE the "skins" out to their own gallery!
2. Make DX SKINNABLE - make it so that anyone that is making a skin with Skin Studio could EASILY add a "standard" weather/clock/cal to it without having to make anything in DX.
3. Fix some bugs - I have seen a lot of bug posts over the past year or so. Some of these are deal-breakers for things. I have a really cool Sidebar Dock that I would love to release but it would be a gadget so that anyone can use it, but the taskbar/tray does not work when exported. There are lots of other items, look at the posts.
I have tried for over 2 years to make DX programming "Profitable" and it just isn't on the basis of selling single gadgets to users. The only real way to make $ is to get a company to pay for a custom gadget for advertising. I have done this in the past, and it really has helped the company, as well as was very profitable for me. The hard part is getting the company to understand what DX can do for them, and then convincing them, they NEED it!! LOL
I want to say this, DX is THE single most amazing programing tool I have ever used. There is truly NO LIMIT to what it can do. The problem is figuring out what to do with it.
I do think there is a MAJOR market for DX but I also think that SD Designs is hitting that market VERY well.
DX "things" fall into 3 categories (as i see them).
1. weather/clocks/Cals - SKINS - taking an existing widget, changing the location of the items in it, and calling it a new "widget". To me thats SKINNING, not Widget "creation". There are some AMAZING ones out there, but i think DX is so much more.
2. Themes - these are desktop replacements. there are a lot of these out there that are really cool, and i think the main problem with these have been pointed out here, RESOLUTION. The thing is, that could be fixed, but it takes programming, and i think a lot of the people making the themes are not programmers (I could be wrong). Again, this is a plus and a minus of DX. ANYONE can make things with it, but to make it sing it takes more that just images.
3. Gadgets/Widgets - These are truly UNIQUE and USEFUL Self contained PROGRAMS with a Visual Interface. These take a LOT of programming skill, and also a keen eye for graphics to make them visually appealing. The big problem here is that not every skinner is a programmer and vice versa. I myself enjoy the programming end, and HATE the graphics end of things. This is why recently I have tried to work with REAL graphics people (VStyler for one).
The main reason I see the "fall off" in DX is that there are only so many weather / clock / cal "widgets" the gallery can handle, after that other widgets get lost. After putting weeks or months into a widget or gadget; you post it, think its amazing, and in 2 days its on page 3 buried by more and more of the exact same "skinned" widget. So whats the point. You work your A$$ off, make something totally unique, something no one had done before, and no one cares, all they want is another weather widget that matches their "current" skin. Hey, thats what the public wants, and so people provide it, im not faulting anyone that does this, everything has its place.
So i have given up making things for the masses.
I make things that:
1. i like and think are cool
2. i would use for myself
3. something i can SELL - YES look i want to make some $$, shoot me, dont like it, dont buy it!
If you want to revitalize DX you need to do the following:
1. SPLIT THE DANG GALLERY!!! - i have pushed this for 3 years, and its still the same. MOVE the "skins" out to their own gallery!
2. Make DX SKINNABLE - make it so that anyone that is making a skin with Skin Studio could EASILY add a "standard" weather/clock/cal to it without having to make anything in DX.
3. Fix some bugs - I have seen a lot of bug posts over the past year or so. Some of these are deal-breakers for things. I have a really cool Sidebar Dock that I would love to release but it would be a gadget so that anyone can use it, but the taskbar/tray does not work when exported. There are lots of other items, look at the posts.
I have tried for over 2 years to make DX programming "Profitable" and it just isn't on the basis of selling single gadgets to users. The only real way to make $ is to get a company to pay for a custom gadget for advertising. I have done this in the past, and it really has helped the company, as well as was very profitable for me. The hard part is getting the company to understand what DX can do for them, and then convincing them, they NEED it!! LOL
I want to say this, DX is THE single most amazing programing tool I have ever used. There is truly NO LIMIT to what it can do. The problem is figuring out what to do with it.
I do think there is a MAJOR market for DX but I also think that SD Designs is hitting that market VERY well.
Wizard1956
Reply #32 Sunday, May 11, 2008 8:38 PM
I've spent the last 2 days "slogging" through the DX galleries,I agree 100%. I look for objects/widgets that will work with several WB's. More color change options would help. The weather, meter and calendar widgets included with most themes are often 3 different sizes. This unbalances the desktop and looks lopsided,imo,unlike windows sidebar.I have to go into builder mode(lost me there) to do something as simple as deleting and saving shortcuts? Few are "drag and drop" If I had to use SKS to change colors,fonts or WP, I'd be screwed with WindowBlinds,too. I"m trying to use DX,but it seems like a steep learning curve!
Reply #32 Sunday, May 11, 2008 8:38 PM
The main reason I see the "fall off" in DX is that there are only so many weather / clock / cal "widgets" the gallery can handle, after that other widgets get lost
I've spent the last 2 days "slogging" through the DX galleries,I agree 100%. I look for objects/widgets that will work with several WB's. More color change options would help.
The weather, meter and calendar widgets included with most themes are often 3 different sizes. This unbalances the desktop and looks lopsided,imo,unlike windows sidebar.I have to go into builder mode(lost me there) to do something as simple as deleting and saving shortcuts? Few are "drag and drop" If I had to use SKS to change colors,fonts or WP, I'd be screwed with WindowBlinds,too. I"m trying to use DX,but it seems like a steep learning curve!
PuterDudeJim
Reply #33 Sunday, May 11, 2008 8:56 PM
I feel the same about trying to make a WB skin. Scary!!
Reply #33 Sunday, May 11, 2008 8:56 PM
I"m trying to use DX,but it seems like a steep learning curve!
I feel the same about trying to make a WB skin. Scary!!
RedRaven
Reply #34 Monday, May 12, 2008 4:56 PM
Reply #34 Monday, May 12, 2008 4:56 PM
Yes, thanks guys - that was the tutorial I found. I'm old-fashioned and would prefer actual written instructions, but I guess I'll have to go ahead and look at that one.
Thanks
RR
Thanks
RR
ZubaZ
Reply #35 Monday, May 12, 2008 5:00 PM
Reply #35 Monday, May 12, 2008 5:00 PM
RedRaven
Reply #36 Monday, May 12, 2008 5:20 PM
Reply #36 Monday, May 12, 2008 5:20 PM
Darn thing won't let me edit my previous post to add this. Blah... anyhow...
I agree that there's an overabundance of clocks, weather thingys, etc. that aren't anything but different colored versions of the same thing. I think the problem there is that's the most many of us can do. Those are easy to make for someone who can't script or who's not very experienced, since they are all set up. I have a couple more unique ideas, but don't have the skill at the moment to implement them... so yeah... you'll prolly see a RedRaven clock or something.
But, I agree the categories could be divided a bit better. I've been trying to find some old objects I remembered seeing and have had to go thru a page at a time back to 2003 to get them. Unless you know the exact name of something it's often pretty difficult to get by category.
I would love to see more highlighting of truly unique stuff - like "Truly unusual thing of the week." Hehe. Again, however, those things are hard for a lot of us to manage. I was going nuts all day yesterday trying to figure out how to make my weather object. I know I have to make all new graphics (which shouldn't be a problem), but even that was giving me trouble. I took apart an object I liked, to study it, and ran into stuff like.. "What the heck kind of weather is that supposed to be", and "Why are there two of these that look identical?", etc. So, really making stuff from scratch can be tough even if you are motivated to do so and are willing to spend the time.
How do y'all feel about mmm... not sure how to put it. Someone posts a theme called Zebras... then they post the "Clock for Zebras theme" in clocks. And "Zebra weather" in weather. Etc. Do you think it would make more sense to restrict theme-specific items to being part of the theme package itself - i.e. if you want the clock, you'll just have to DL the whole theme and grab the clock? I imagine that would certainly cut down on a lot of the clutter. However it might be a problem for people who are posting their theme and additions a bit at a time.
If any programmer types want to help me out with my wacky ideas, lemme know. I've got a couple interesting ones, but I have to teach myself code before I can do anything with them. And BTW, RomanDA, your tutorials are wonderful - Really, really helpful.
Thanks Zubaz. That will help a bit with seeing where options are and so forth. It's surprising with everyone going on about resolution independence that there aren't 50 tutorials on the subject! Big problem for me is that my current project has a bunch of Celtic knotwork and I don't think it's going to want to tile very well.
RR
P.S. (I'm a writer.. I babble.. sorry). For you tutorial-writing types... There seems to be a bit of a gap in the area of mid-level tutorials. There are a lot of basics - how to load stuff, how to make a text object. And then some scripting ones. But not much in the way of ... how to make a weather dealy from scratch, how to make slider drawers behave nicely, etc. I tracked down Brad's(?) video demo of making an MP3 player yesterday and was like.. "Ooooh, this is perfect!" Don't care if it's video or written with pics, but more stuff showing the mid-level stuff would be great. I think that's probably where a lot of us are stuck. I know how to make graphics and such, but knowing how to get them into DX in the right places and make them behave the way I want is where I tend to bog down.
I agree that there's an overabundance of clocks, weather thingys, etc. that aren't anything but different colored versions of the same thing. I think the problem there is that's the most many of us can do. Those are easy to make for someone who can't script or who's not very experienced, since they are all set up. I have a couple more unique ideas, but don't have the skill at the moment to implement them... so yeah... you'll prolly see a RedRaven clock or something.
But, I agree the categories could be divided a bit better. I've been trying to find some old objects I remembered seeing and have had to go thru a page at a time back to 2003 to get them. Unless you know the exact name of something it's often pretty difficult to get by category.
I would love to see more highlighting of truly unique stuff - like "Truly unusual thing of the week." Hehe. Again, however, those things are hard for a lot of us to manage. I was going nuts all day yesterday trying to figure out how to make my weather object. I know I have to make all new graphics (which shouldn't be a problem), but even that was giving me trouble. I took apart an object I liked, to study it, and ran into stuff like.. "What the heck kind of weather is that supposed to be", and "Why are there two of these that look identical?", etc. So, really making stuff from scratch can be tough even if you are motivated to do so and are willing to spend the time.
How do y'all feel about mmm... not sure how to put it. Someone posts a theme called Zebras... then they post the "Clock for Zebras theme" in clocks. And "Zebra weather" in weather. Etc. Do you think it would make more sense to restrict theme-specific items to being part of the theme package itself - i.e. if you want the clock, you'll just have to DL the whole theme and grab the clock? I imagine that would certainly cut down on a lot of the clutter. However it might be a problem for people who are posting their theme and additions a bit at a time.
If any programmer types want to help me out with my wacky ideas, lemme know. I've got a couple interesting ones, but I have to teach myself code before I can do anything with them. And BTW, RomanDA, your tutorials are wonderful - Really, really helpful.
Thanks Zubaz. That will help a bit with seeing where options are and so forth. It's surprising with everyone going on about resolution independence that there aren't 50 tutorials on the subject! Big problem for me is that my current project has a bunch of Celtic knotwork and I don't think it's going to want to tile very well.
RR
P.S. (I'm a writer.. I babble.. sorry). For you tutorial-writing types... There seems to be a bit of a gap in the area of mid-level tutorials. There are a lot of basics - how to load stuff, how to make a text object. And then some scripting ones. But not much in the way of ... how to make a weather dealy from scratch, how to make slider drawers behave nicely, etc. I tracked down Brad's(?) video demo of making an MP3 player yesterday and was like.. "Ooooh, this is perfect!" Don't care if it's video or written with pics, but more stuff showing the mid-level stuff would be great. I think that's probably where a lot of us are stuck. I know how to make graphics and such, but knowing how to get them into DX in the right places and make them behave the way I want is where I tend to bog down.
RedRaven
Reply #38 Monday, May 12, 2008 6:17 PM
Reply #38 Monday, May 12, 2008 6:17 PM
Yes, thank you - As I said before you group of tutorials has been very helpful. I've got the PDFs all saved and been going through them.
Just was saying in general there seems to be a lack in certain areas. *shrug* I'm figuring stuff out, though.
Thanks
RR
Just was saying in general there seems to be a lack in certain areas. *shrug* I'm figuring stuff out, though.
Thanks
RR
sViz
Reply #39 Monday, May 12, 2008 10:23 PM
Well said. There's those who persevere to learn more (like you), and then there are those who look at DX and get excited to start making stuff and then just get frustrated by the process. It takes alot of diligence and skill to make anything but weather/clock/calendar widgets and I really feel that if the learning/creating process were easier and swifter people wouldn't get so easily discouraged. It something I've been contemplating alot lately and I've started jotting down ideas on what to do to make that process easier.
Yes! I would like to see a monthly article featuring some of the most unique DX submissions.
I agree, but the trouble is everyone's needs are so vastly different it's hard to get a feel for what specific subjects would make a useful tutorial. You could do a ton of tuts on this or that but depending on what the user is trying to make it may or may not help at all. That's why I guess many tuts have remained in the categories of 'getting started' and 'scripting introductions'.
Reply #39 Monday, May 12, 2008 10:23 PM
I think the problem there is that's the most many of us can do. Those are easy to make for someone who can't script or who's not very experienced, since they are all set up. I have a couple more unique ideas, but don't have the skill at the moment to implement them...
Well said. There's those who persevere to learn more (like you), and then there are those who look at DX and get excited to start making stuff and then just get frustrated by the process. It takes alot of diligence and skill to make anything but weather/clock/calendar widgets and I really feel that if the learning/creating process were easier and swifter people wouldn't get so easily discouraged. It something I've been contemplating alot lately and I've started jotting down ideas on what to do to make that process easier.
I would love to see more highlighting of truly unique stuff - like "Truly unusual
thing of the week."
thing of the week."
Yes! I would like to see a monthly article featuring some of the most unique DX submissions.
There seems to be a bit of a gap in the area of mid-level tutorials.
I agree, but the trouble is everyone's needs are so vastly different it's hard to get a feel for what specific subjects would make a useful tutorial. You could do a ton of tuts on this or that but depending on what the user is trying to make it may or may not help at all. That's why I guess many tuts have remained in the categories of 'getting started' and 'scripting introductions'.
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Reply #21 Saturday, May 10, 2008 4:58 PM
That describes my experience as a new user very well.