Non-Subscribers already see ads....so there is already "Ad" money coming to the site.
I assume the number of Subscribers is relatively small compared to Non-Subscribers therefore additional revenue is required.

1. How is advertising to that small target group going to "make-up" the short fall?
2. I agree with Fish.......

I agree with you as to what it is. I think that you would also agree that the spirit of the description and the general understanding of the community was that subscriptions provided ad free viewing. Yes, the fine print as always leaves the company room to change. No argument from me on that.



All this is hypothetical as we have no idea other than the Adobe example given. But why is it that all must see the ads including subscribers? Is this a demand of the advertisers? I have always found that if you give a person a large office, they will soon need furniture and equipment to fill it and then art work to decorate the walls. Need some plants too. The slippery slope.

I agree with the question of what is the point if the subscriber base is that small in the first place.

If I were a sponsor, I'd want my logo shown to everyone.  It's as simple as that.  Sponsors want to hit everyone and are willing to pay for it.  I say that if it improves the site then go for it.
The slope has always been there.  WC has always done their best to walk the same line we walk.

Subscriptions (and incredibly cheap renewals) and the current ad structure aren't working for whatever reason.  Something has to change and Zoomba's found a minimally intrusive fix.

I don't think it's a slope that we have to worry about.

The thread is getting away from us here a little bit as more and more folks speculate on what words mean, what guarantees could be made, what folks think will happen if we allow this now etc.

To clarify, here's the deal:

1. The site does not consistently make back the money it costs to operate
2. Our existing revenue model of simple web ads plus the current subscription model has not kept pace with the growth and requirements of the site
3. We want to provide more cool stuff to subscribers; suites, site features etc. but to do that, we need the money to invest back into the site.

When looking at the current state of things, we're left with a few options:

1. Cut back on site updates.  WinCustomize works pretty well now, but we want to do more regular updates and revisions to it to keep improving it. 
2. Dramatically change the subscription model and costs.  Right now, you pay $20 for the first year, and $10 each subsequent year.
3. Modify how we handle advertising on the site. 

Personally, I see #3 as the best compromise of the options.  Why?  Because it means we are able to do more on the site, without it costing our users anything extra, and since I have control over what is placed, I can make sure it's not annoying or intrusive.

With site sponsorships, there is a give-and-take between me and any potential advertiser.  On the one side, advertisers require that the sponsorship be visible to ALL users period.  On the other, I get to define the size, shape and placement of any sponsorship, and can reject anything I don't find acceptable.

Just dont get sponsored by anything too terribly annoying.. I already see 300 Viagra ads a day on TV...and no ambulance chasing laywers please.

  

Well with the replies getting ever so close to 100, I believe the only questions that remain are, do you have a list of sponsor candidates, and have you picked whom will be first? Not look for names here just an idea where you are in the process.

No, there has been no committment yet to do these sorts of placements.  I was presented with the possibility early last week and the point of all of this was to discuss it with the community before any decisions were made.

I have not told our ad rep that we *will* be doing these yet

The people responsible for selling ad space on WinCustomize have not been told to sell sponsorships to advertisers yet.

There is no list of potential sponsors lined up yet.

Aufisch raises a valid and THE MOST IMPORTANT point in my opinion.

Am I correct in assuming that the evergrowing traffic on WC is now mainly caused by (non-subscribing) people who download dreams? (and therefore is expected to rise even more with the onset of DeskScapes 2?).
I can't help but get the feeling that an ever shrinking amount of subscribers has to cross-finance an ever growing numbers of freeloaders.


Why do subscribers have to be the ones to always compromise here?

That is indeed the question and I also wonder how many are already subscribed well into the future in response to other promotions and challenges for support. I assumed there are quite a few who have already paid well into the future. Am I correct?

I'm paid up so far ahead I need to talk to Zoomba about transferring subs to myy kids.

Yup - I'm subscribed into the afterlife  But as I see it having sponsors is not really a hardship if it provides subscribers with extra content. I don't see a compromise there, what I see is a clear advantage to the subscriber. Anyway, none of that is the reason I subscribed...

I would like to see ads in the gallery for non-subscribers/non-purchasers though. This site costs so much to run the 'freeloader' needs to contribute in some way, even if it is only with the revenue from ads.

This is probably the first case of us asking subscribers to compromise on what we listed as subscriber benefits.

And like I said earlier, this is something that if we do it, will have very direct benefits ONLY for subscribers.

And to Fuzzy's comment... non-subscribers will still get the ad-heavy version of the site.

To be fair, You are correct.

I'm just tired..sick and tired...tired tired tired.. of big corp's passing their issues onto the little guy.

Stardock has branding on the Samurize site and has for as long as I've visited there. If that's consistent with what is being proposed, I'm NOT against it. I just want to avoid the appearance of "Anything ya'll want to do is OK" that I see in some of the early posts. I missed the "benefit" part when I read the original post.

Not having ads was not my MAIN reason for subscribing but it was definitely part of my reason. I don't frequent Skinbase much the last few years because of ads and the fact the same folks are here or on other sites not so aggressive in that area.

It is as far as I know.

I do, and it's not something that I feel has truly been acknowledged.

The description plainly states "removing banners and other ads from the website that may hinder your surfing experience."....

It never promises no ads, period. That would have been a mistake by WC, because it would have left no room to work within. It seems like the 'button-ad' proposal is the best way to go about raising revenue for the site, while still trying to keep subscribers happy.

Would a button ad really hinder your surfing experience that much? Just sitting there unobtrusively, say, above or below the WC Store ad? After the first few days, I'm not sure I (personally) would even notice.

If it were the local NAMBLA chapter...yeah, it would kinda put a damper on my surfing experience.   

I had to Google that to see what it was...thanks, I could have gone happily through life without knowing. It's going to take a lot of beer to kill that brain cell.   

I would like to point out that there is already an ad that is visible to subscribers. The Wincustomize store ads. I propose using half of that space as a sponsorship logo/ad if this is the path that is taken. No matter what, once this door is opened it will never be shut.

I always assumed that this was the support site for Stardock's sales. Without Wincustomize, the sales of Stardock’s products would not be as good as they are. That being the case, why does Wincustomize have to be a money making division of Stardock? The old adage is true, in business you have to spend money to make money.

I think SD apps would do fine without WC.  There's dA, skinning.net, etc.  Somoen would pick up the slack.  the Masters could always start their own sites.

I think that WC is a balance between the marketing arm od SD and a service to us.

Wincustomize.com 'could' simply be a straight Stardock portal for access to programs and skin content for SD product.... but it is quite substantially more than that being a somewhat independent Community Site for skinners and skinning in general.

Remember that Wincustomize was setup not 'just' to replace Stardock's original sites....eg. Windowblinds.com [I think - brain-fade here today] but also to fill much of the void left by the 'demise' of skinz.org, particularly as Deviantart.com 'deviated' more towards 'general' graphic art/s.

At its genesis the existing skinning sites were less than 'reliably present' - Deskmod.com had a DB failure ...skinz.org was pillaged by eFront and Customize.org was in rebirth with a place-holder 'watch this space' thingie.  One of the 'smaller' sites was run through mum's dial-up account, and others were still looking for an economy model.

Nothing 'we' do regarding having "advertising" [whatever the interpretation/definition] visible to Subscribers is ever likely to get O.T.T. as Site owners, Admins, Moderators and all would have to 'endure' them as well.  Remember we too are Subscribers [eg. I think I'm about 4 years ahead]...