Show Skins With This Rating Or Higher Not Working
Need To Hide Hideous Hack Jobs
Wednesday, July 25, 2007 by WebGizmos | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I have my settings for viewing skins set at "All" and have since the start...but with the recent influx of some absolutely hideous skins...more like hack jobs...in the WindowBlinds library I'd like to change this setting so I don't have to see this stuff and can see the stuff people actually take some pride in creating. But the settings are not working at all.
Can someone please look into this.
Further...I seriously don't understand how these hack jobs even make it to the library at all. Stuff like this should be regulated to they're personal sites until they actually make an effort to skin. It's completely unfair to the people that take hours upon hours to put out quality work and not something just slapped together only to get buried under this stuff.
Can someone please look into this.
Further...I seriously don't understand how these hack jobs even make it to the library at all. Stuff like this should be regulated to they're personal sites until they actually make an effort to skin. It's completely unfair to the people that take hours upon hours to put out quality work and not something just slapped together only to get buried under this stuff.
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NightTrainthedark
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:56 AM
Reply #3 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:56 AM
Those hacks are your future skinners just breaking into the scene. The skins should be in the galleries so the Authors can get feedback so they can improve. As unsightly as they are, it is important for those authors to be noticed so that they can improve. I wish I had more time to offer them to help them grow. In most cases, people are all alone when starting skinning and they need assistance from the community. Noone sees personal pages so the skins will go unnoticed. 
Bebi Bulma
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:05 AM
Reply #4 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:05 AM
It's one thing to want to get and receive feedback...it's another to actually take heed of it and actually *listen* to it to grow and improve which doesn't seem to be happening.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:05 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:05 AM
The current policy on WB submission is that unless they are rips, don't work etc, the skin goes public. Once you start moderating skins on quality grounds you leave yourself wide open to further criticism.
{moderator hat off}
These are probably the worst couple of skins I've ever seen. Not only that, the author has failed to follow all the good advice given to him. Quality not quantity should be the mark to follow. Skins as poor as those need to be personal page only...
{moderator hat on}
Don't know about the filter not working. I have to have mine set at 'all' to moderate.
Bebi Bulma
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:08 AM
But it's ok to moderate wallpapers for quality control?
Fuzzy you crack me up.
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:08 AM
The current policy on WB submission is that unless they are rips, don't work etc, the skin goes public. Once you start moderating skins on quality grounds you leave yourself wide open to further criticism.
But it's ok to moderate wallpapers for quality control?
{moderator hat off}
These are probably the worst couple of skins I've ever seen. Not only that, the author has failed to follow all the good advice given to him. Quality not quantity should be the mark to follow. Skins as poor as those need to be personal page only...
{moderator hat on}
These are probably the worst couple of skins I've ever seen. Not only that, the author has failed to follow all the good advice given to him. Quality not quantity should be the mark to follow. Skins as poor as those need to be personal page only...
{moderator hat on}
Fuzzy you crack me up.
vStyler
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:10 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:10 AM
Zoomba submitted a ticket yesterday for the filter issue to be adressed.
This is all well and good NT.. if 'said' skinners actually listen to the feedback, on the flipside a lot of good stuff gets buried. Perhaps a noob area is in order OR.. as I have always suggested, a real WIP section where each skin gets its own thread and the author posts progress and asks for feedback. A place to nurture and harvest new skinners if you will.
It just doesn't look good on the community as a whole when the entire first page of stardocks backbone application is filled up with unfinished, unpolished 'learner' skins...and the inevitable flaming that accompanies them.
This is all well and good NT.. if 'said' skinners actually listen to the feedback, on the flipside a lot of good stuff gets buried. Perhaps a noob area is in order OR.. as I have always suggested, a real WIP section where each skin gets its own thread and the author posts progress and asks for feedback. A place to nurture and harvest new skinners if you will.
It just doesn't look good on the community as a whole when the entire first page of stardocks backbone application is filled up with unfinished, unpolished 'learner' skins...and the inevitable flaming that accompanies them.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #8 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:27 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:27 AM
But it's ok to moderate wallpapers for quality control?
Only a few WB skins are submitted each week whereas there are hundreds of wallpapers 
ArileenDesign
Reply #9 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:33 AM
Reply #9 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:33 AM
Well i agree and disagree...
It'll be good that the option to don't show skin under the ratings you set works. that's a point.
I agree with Night Train we need to help those beginners in skinning and their works should be see by everyone...
But in an other hand what i see today is "some" beginners who made WB skins in fews days upload them and don't care about the feedback/councils of good skinner (and sometimes Masters) that is simply odd.
How could they learn and improve if they don't care of councils and tips?
I'm not for a quality control as hard as the QC in wallpapers gallery.
as statued by WC/SD (i could be wrong) Wallpapers need to be good to show. But WC is a skinning site so all others skins can be in main gallery, so wallpapers under 2.5 stars don't show up in main gallery and stay in Personal pages.
I agree... that allow me to improve my skills to try to get one in main gallery
But in case of WB, i think it could be interesting to not allow skins in main gallery under 1 or 1.5 stars and like for Walls to put them on personal pages.
why? cause like that hopefully, some beginners will improve their works and try to learn more.
Why i think that could be work? cause moderators in general (i can't talk for them) as show before it seems that they not bash skinners so in general you don't see WB rate as first as less than 2 stars.
So it could be works...
More it could be interesting in the case of a WB skin rate by a mods under 2 stars that in the mail to tell to the skinner that his skin is available in his gallery to put the links to the Wiki tutorials or/and some others in articles section.
As remind forums can be there too to allow the skinners to put a link to their skin to get a feedback and councils from the community isn't it?
I'm not here to bash to work of some of those beginner i'm one too i'm making my 3th only and i still learn. In general i don't comment this kind of skin but send sometimes a email like yesterday morning to give some links to good tutorials or tips.
I know how hard is it to make a WB for a beginner and how that can be make fear.
I hope many people will try to begin in skinning. And i know we will be there to help us/them.
It'll be good that the option to don't show skin under the ratings you set works. that's a point.
I agree with Night Train we need to help those beginners in skinning and their works should be see by everyone...
But in an other hand what i see today is "some" beginners who made WB skins in fews days upload them and don't care about the feedback/councils of good skinner (and sometimes Masters) that is simply odd.
How could they learn and improve if they don't care of councils and tips?
I'm not for a quality control as hard as the QC in wallpapers gallery.
as statued by WC/SD (i could be wrong) Wallpapers need to be good to show. But WC is a skinning site so all others skins can be in main gallery, so wallpapers under 2.5 stars don't show up in main gallery and stay in Personal pages.
I agree... that allow me to improve my skills to try to get one in main gallery
But in case of WB, i think it could be interesting to not allow skins in main gallery under 1 or 1.5 stars and like for Walls to put them on personal pages.
why? cause like that hopefully, some beginners will improve their works and try to learn more.
Why i think that could be work? cause moderators in general (i can't talk for them) as show before it seems that they not bash skinners so in general you don't see WB rate as first as less than 2 stars.
So it could be works...
More it could be interesting in the case of a WB skin rate by a mods under 2 stars that in the mail to tell to the skinner that his skin is available in his gallery to put the links to the Wiki tutorials or/and some others in articles section.
As remind forums can be there too to allow the skinners to put a link to their skin to get a feedback and councils from the community isn't it?
I'm not here to bash to work of some of those beginner i'm one too i'm making my 3th only and i still learn. In general i don't comment this kind of skin but send sometimes a email like yesterday morning to give some links to good tutorials or tips.
I know how hard is it to make a WB for a beginner and how that can be make fear.
I hope many people will try to begin in skinning. And i know we will be there to help us/them.
ArileenDesign
Reply #10 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:12 AM
Reply #10 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:12 AM
My really 2cts:
Why not make a (in fact several) WIP section?
Explain:
I could be wrong but i believe non-subscribers see only skins rate as 7/10 right?
So we could add in each gallery a Work in Progress sub-category like "General", "Os", "..."
and in place of put the skins rate under 2 stars (4/10) in personnal pages moderators put them in WIP sections (or the skinners themsefl) to allow people to see it and help.
THOSE WIP SUB CATEGORY WILL BE SEE BY EVERYONE
AND for subscribers add an option in settings to enable/disable "show the WIPs sections"
like that people who want help can help and those who don't want or can't help can see only the finished works.
Why not make a (in fact several) WIP section?
Explain:
I could be wrong but i believe non-subscribers see only skins rate as 7/10 right?
So we could add in each gallery a Work in Progress sub-category like "General", "Os", "..."
and in place of put the skins rate under 2 stars (4/10) in personnal pages moderators put them in WIP sections (or the skinners themsefl) to allow people to see it and help.
THOSE WIP SUB CATEGORY WILL BE SEE BY EVERYONE
AND for subscribers add an option in settings to enable/disable "show the WIPs sections"
like that people who want help can help and those who don't want or can't help can see only the finished works.
WebGizmos
Reply #11 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:24 AM
Reply #11 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:24 AM
Personally I'm all for someone wanting to learn to skin, but when they are obviously NOT making an effort to learn and just start pumping out junk like there's no tomorrow...in some cases several skins in a day!...I repeat...several skins a day!...then they need to be regulated to the personal pages. Its completely unfair to the ones that are taking the time to learn and put out quality stuff.
There are plenty of new skinners in the WB library that are at least making an effort to learn and you can see they're submissions improving, but to allow this obvious junk...it feels more like spam than anything.
There are plenty of new skinners in the WB library that are at least making an effort to learn and you can see they're submissions improving, but to allow this obvious junk...it feels more like spam than anything.
aufisch
Reply #12 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:43 AM
Reply #12 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:43 AM
Another suggestion; why not make it that skins with 1 star or less won't be included in the download stats?
Alternatively: Skins with 1 star or less will be automatically moved to the personal gallery after (three?) days.
That way "newbies" get a chance to get their skins out there and receive comments by their peers. If their first skin is crap it will disappear quickly and not get many downloads, but they will be able to either improve the same skin or take the comments into consideration for a new skin.
I think the underlaying problem is that there are always (a very small percentage) of people who identify themselves on how many forum-points/awards/Download-counts they have. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but some will try to get to their desired points as cheaply and as fast as possible and hence will flood the forum/galleries with their "artwork".
In the four (five?) years I have been here on WC, I have seen exactly that kind of behaviour in all possible areas (from comments to skins). Once those uploaders have reached their points/award/promotion, they are more than often a now show.
A WIP-thread has been suggested several times now and it is my oppinion that such an area should be a part of WC, especially since it is the "daughter"-site of the WindowBlinds producers and the official skin-site for this application.
However, a WIP area will only ever help those people who really want to improve themselves. I get the slight impression that the uploader of those last skins would probably not upload anything into a WIP area if there is no "glam" and "publicity" attached to it.
Alternatively: Skins with 1 star or less will be automatically moved to the personal gallery after (three?) days.
That way "newbies" get a chance to get their skins out there and receive comments by their peers. If their first skin is crap it will disappear quickly and not get many downloads, but they will be able to either improve the same skin or take the comments into consideration for a new skin.
I think the underlaying problem is that there are always (a very small percentage) of people who identify themselves on how many forum-points/awards/Download-counts they have. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but some will try to get to their desired points as cheaply and as fast as possible and hence will flood the forum/galleries with their "artwork".
In the four (five?) years I have been here on WC, I have seen exactly that kind of behaviour in all possible areas (from comments to skins). Once those uploaders have reached their points/award/promotion, they are more than often a now show.
A WIP-thread has been suggested several times now and it is my oppinion that such an area should be a part of WC, especially since it is the "daughter"-site of the WindowBlinds producers and the official skin-site for this application.
However, a WIP area will only ever help those people who really want to improve themselves. I get the slight impression that the uploader of those last skins would probably not upload anything into a WIP area if there is no "glam" and "publicity" attached to it.
WebGizmos
Reply #13 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:04 AM
Reply #13 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:04 AM
Having a WIP section would be a great idea...and the moderators could regulate WIP's to that section rather than flood the library with unfinished stuff that looks like it was done in MSPaint.
And I wanna be clear that I don't want to discourage anyone from trying to learn skinning...but they at least have to make an honest effort at learning before they start flooding the libraries with slapped together stuff. There are lots of people here that are more than willing to share tips. Start a skin....get some tips...improve the skin...post some screenshots for comments and more tips....polish it some more...show that you at least are trying to learn. But please don't subject us to slapped together stuff just because its fun for you...if thats the case have fun....but please keep it in your personal library and give your friends the link...then slap away. There are a lot of people here that take this stuff seriously and don't deserve to get they're hard work buried under it. And it certainly does not do the software any justice either justice.
And I wanna be clear that I don't want to discourage anyone from trying to learn skinning...but they at least have to make an honest effort at learning before they start flooding the libraries with slapped together stuff. There are lots of people here that are more than willing to share tips. Start a skin....get some tips...improve the skin...post some screenshots for comments and more tips....polish it some more...show that you at least are trying to learn. But please don't subject us to slapped together stuff just because its fun for you...if thats the case have fun....but please keep it in your personal library and give your friends the link...then slap away. There are a lot of people here that take this stuff seriously and don't deserve to get they're hard work buried under it. And it certainly does not do the software any justice either justice.
Jafo
Reply #14 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:33 AM
Reply #14 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:33 AM
I think that every current recognized/accomplished skinner needs to step back an inch or two...and think back to when they may [or may not] have been in an exact same position as these new people/uploads.
One of the reasons that the Wincustomize rating system is in place is so that the 'expert' skinners/users can generate the outcome of a filter for what the public actually gets to see...or not see.
It is THAT which determines what becomes the 'public face' of skins and skinning on Wincustomize.com. It is only those who have the capacity to 'view all' that even get to see what some may argue as sub-standard.
But...
We all started somewhere....I know mine were/are crappy, too. Does my skins' quality make me less suited as a legitimate member/contributor to our site? I'd hope not.
Wincustomize.com is a skinning site. For skinners.
Some skinners heed advice. Some give it. Some ignore it.
That's life.
I personally would hate to see any aspiring/trying/inept[?] skinner be perhaps degraded through exclusion/segregation.
The comparison with the wallpaper gallery/uploads doesn't wash as there are significantly more submissions to 'walls'... a good order of magnitude [or two] different.
This current thread is more because of the current filter 'bug' than anything else. Once fixed the status quo is restored....
One of the reasons that the Wincustomize rating system is in place is so that the 'expert' skinners/users can generate the outcome of a filter for what the public actually gets to see...or not see.
It is THAT which determines what becomes the 'public face' of skins and skinning on Wincustomize.com. It is only those who have the capacity to 'view all' that even get to see what some may argue as sub-standard.
But...
We all started somewhere....I know mine were/are crappy, too. Does my skins' quality make me less suited as a legitimate member/contributor to our site? I'd hope not.
Wincustomize.com is a skinning site. For skinners.
Some skinners heed advice. Some give it. Some ignore it.
That's life.
I personally would hate to see any aspiring/trying/inept[?] skinner be perhaps degraded through exclusion/segregation.
The comparison with the wallpaper gallery/uploads doesn't wash as there are significantly more submissions to 'walls'... a good order of magnitude [or two] different.
This current thread is more because of the current filter 'bug' than anything else. Once fixed the status quo is restored....
ArileenDesign
Reply #15 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:49 AM
at less we all can see that the someone in question has got the advice if we take the time to see back in his skin comments
Reply #15 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:49 AM
Wincustomize.com is a skinning site. For skinners.
Some skinners heed advice. Some give it. Some ignore it.
That's life.
Some skinners heed advice. Some give it. Some ignore it.
That's life.
at less we all can see that the someone in question has got the advice if we take the time to see back in his skin comments
sViz
Reply #16 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:53 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:53 AM
Yeah, I just had a look at his gallery and I see about 7 blinds there so far with very low ratings. I think we should encourage him as much as we can and give him advice but I can't help but notice he submitted another blind just today and this one did not implement much if any of the advice given to him by any of the WB pros. I don't understand why he would upload so frequently without making any improvements. You can't look for new advice without first heeding the advice given to you yesterday, can you?
I thought the ratings restriction was okay. When I first showed up some of my work did not get into the main gallery. I worked really hard on them mind you, but it only made me work harder to produce better products. Getting a higher rating is one of many incentives to put more effort into your work. Aren't those kinds of incentives a good thing?
I guess the argument is whether or not, by implementing restrictions, we are discouraging newbie skinners. If they are serious about it, I'd say the answer is no. If they are looking to get feedback on work, there are always the forums, email correspondance, take a screenshot, etc. It all depends, really, on the skinner.
If there are to be no restrictions, I don't think I mind all that much. It's not like there's an onslaught of low rated submissions. But I just wondered why did WC decide to have restrictions in the first place and what made you guys change your mind?
I thought the ratings restriction was okay. When I first showed up some of my work did not get into the main gallery. I worked really hard on them mind you, but it only made me work harder to produce better products. Getting a higher rating is one of many incentives to put more effort into your work. Aren't those kinds of incentives a good thing?
I guess the argument is whether or not, by implementing restrictions, we are discouraging newbie skinners. If they are serious about it, I'd say the answer is no. If they are looking to get feedback on work, there are always the forums, email correspondance, take a screenshot, etc. It all depends, really, on the skinner.
If there are to be no restrictions, I don't think I mind all that much. It's not like there's an onslaught of low rated submissions. But I just wondered why did WC decide to have restrictions in the first place and what made you guys change your mind?
Cavan1
Reply #17 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:48 PM
Hey Jafo, it use to be the way, there are no more rating filters on galleries, the public sees all skins.
Using bootskins as an example, filter use to be 2 1/2 stars, there is a boot added yesterday rated 2 stars, it already has over 450 downloads, would not be that many if filtered and not seen by general public.
Reply #17 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:48 PM
One of the reasons that the Wincustomize rating system is in place is so that the 'expert' skinners/users can generate the outcome of a filter for what the public actually gets to see...or not see.
It is THAT which determines what becomes the 'public face' of skins and skinning on Wincustomize.com. It is only those who have the capacity to 'view all' that even get to see what some may argue as sub-standard.
It is THAT which determines what becomes the 'public face' of skins and skinning on Wincustomize.com. It is only those who have the capacity to 'view all' that even get to see what some may argue as sub-standard.
Hey Jafo, it use to be the way, there are no more rating filters on galleries, the public sees all skins.
Using bootskins as an example, filter use to be 2 1/2 stars, there is a boot added yesterday rated 2 stars, it already has over 450 downloads, would not be that many if filtered and not seen by general public.
WOM
Reply #18 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:33 PM
Reply #18 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:33 PM
The filter system is broken at the moment, but how many people use it. A lot have it set to see all so 450 downloads wouldn't be that much with 2 1/2 million members and say 25% have it set to see all. But as has been said, remember back to when you were new(skinners that is). Everyone starts somewhere. Just hope the noobies take the advice thats given.
Cavan1
Reply #19 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:14 PM
Yes, it seems (I have not tested)the personal setting going thru ones account, but the galleries themselves are no longer filtered by rating for general public. Everyone that comes to WC now sees all skins, walls etc, not just members with setting at show all.
Yes it would be, back in the filtered days, a boot only seen by members would be lucky to get that many downloads in a week, it has that in just over a day. It is now at almost 500 dl, only 10 dl by members.
Reply #19 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:14 PM
The filter system is broken at the moment, but how many people use it.
A lot have it set to see all so 450 downloads wouldn't be that much with 2 1/2 million members and say 25% have it set to see all.
Yes, it seems (I have not tested)the personal setting going thru ones account, but the galleries themselves are no longer filtered by rating for general public. Everyone that comes to WC now sees all skins, walls etc, not just members with setting at show all.
450 downloads wouldn't be that much
Yes it would be, back in the filtered days, a boot only seen by members would be lucky to get that many downloads in a week, it has that in just over a day. It is now at almost 500 dl, only 10 dl by members.
vStyler
Reply #20 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:26 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:26 PM
Fixing the filter indeed would help, but I'm curious, everytime I suggest a WIP section, its either shot down or ignored so i ask...why not? Jafo said "remember when you were a new skinner" Well, i do, it was the WIP section of Neowin that kept me interested in both skinning and customizing showing what I had done so far and seeing previews of what others were up to. I basically lived there for several years..so did many others and a lot of great visual styles started there. So again.. why not a WIP section?
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Reply #1 Wednesday, July 25, 2007 5:39 AM
I agree. Since Windowblinds is *the* flagship Stardock product, it makes sense, to me, to be showcasing the *best* of what can be achieved with the program.
To quote a comment from a particularly bad hack job:
These last two you've posted made me think "the skinners have stopped trying". -Reply #20