Still having MAJOR skin update/delete issues.
Ancient problem...still a huge hassle.
Thursday, July 12, 2007 by I.R. Brainiac | Discussion: WindowBlinds
This has been brought up many times and nothing ever done about it. 
vStyler and I send skin updates regularly to each other and other testers...we even delete our own skins if there is a need to and reinstall backup versions.
We send updates to customers.We ALWAYS tell them...dont forget to uninstall old version before installing new.(many will neglect to do this,we sometimes forget and we are right in the damn middle of discussing it
)
But a simple 'delete this skin' from wbconfig isnt enough...more often than not,it leaves the folder either empty,or with 1 or 2 fonts in it.(sometimes not being used by the current skin so it aint that)
Attempting to install the skin,WB renames it and no skin shows in the skin list.Sometimes it hangs so bad while attempting to install,you have to reboot...to a blank skin...if your lucky.
So you go into WB folder and attempt a manual deletion...werks sometimes,others REFUSE to delete...so now you cant get the update to install at all without a reboot.(one folder was completely empty...and would NOT delete)
We have come to the conclusion that we should NEVER update a skin because half of the people will see no difference or it will even hang their pc.
Unfortunately,skinners dont have the option to NOT update while creating...its part of the process.
vStyler and I send skin updates regularly to each other and other testers...we even delete our own skins if there is a need to and reinstall backup versions.
We send updates to customers.We ALWAYS tell them...dont forget to uninstall old version before installing new.(many will neglect to do this,we sometimes forget and we are right in the damn middle of discussing it
)But a simple 'delete this skin' from wbconfig isnt enough...more often than not,it leaves the folder either empty,or with 1 or 2 fonts in it.(sometimes not being used by the current skin so it aint that)
Attempting to install the skin,WB renames it and no skin shows in the skin list.Sometimes it hangs so bad while attempting to install,you have to reboot...to a blank skin...if your lucky.
So you go into WB folder and attempt a manual deletion...werks sometimes,others REFUSE to delete...so now you cant get the update to install at all without a reboot.(one folder was completely empty...and would NOT delete)
We have come to the conclusion that we should NEVER update a skin because half of the people will see no difference or it will even hang their pc.
Unfortunately,skinners dont have the option to NOT update while creating...its part of the process.
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MeSleeper
Reply #2 Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:32 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:32 PM
Guys - sounds like you're looking for feedback from other skinners. As a user, I have WB set to not use the skin's icon nor wallpaper. I make those changes manually. Those are two less things to worry about during a skin delete.
After I delete a skin the first thing I do is go to the Windowblinds folder and delete the skin's folder if it's still there. If I can't delete it, it's usually because the skin installed some fonts at the OS level. I re-boot and then delete the fonts and folder. I assume at that point the skin is fully deleted. Are you saying that from your skin update experience that the skin is not fully uninstalled at that point? I can't find traces of the old skin in the modified files (e.g. skins.nbd or the in the registry). I assumed it was now gone and it could be updated.
Thanks,
Sleep
After I delete a skin the first thing I do is go to the Windowblinds folder and delete the skin's folder if it's still there. If I can't delete it, it's usually because the skin installed some fonts at the OS level. I re-boot and then delete the fonts and folder. I assume at that point the skin is fully deleted. Are you saying that from your skin update experience that the skin is not fully uninstalled at that point? I can't find traces of the old skin in the modified files (e.g. skins.nbd or the in the registry). I assumed it was now gone and it could be updated.
Thanks,
Sleep
vStyler
Reply #3 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:07 PM
The problem MeSleeper.. IS the reboot. After a reboot there is nothing, correct. That is the whole point. A skin should NOT be leaving fonts somehow in use and undeletable after deleting the skin from WBconfig. Even after an Unload or an Explorer kill. The folder \fonts are access denied.
The entire contents of the folder and the folder itself should be GONE...without.. a reboot OR it should be common knowledge that a reboot is required.
Reply #3 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:07 PM
The problem MeSleeper.. IS the reboot. After a reboot there is nothing, correct. That is the whole point. A skin should NOT be leaving fonts somehow in use and undeletable after deleting the skin from WBconfig. Even after an Unload or an Explorer kill. The folder \fonts are access denied.
The entire contents of the folder and the folder itself should be GONE...without.. a reboot OR it should be common knowledge that a reboot is required.
Nicholasworld
Reply #4 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:15 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:15 PM
You two are certainly the most rambunctious skinners I ever saw. Just reboot and delete the whole folder with fonts is that very difficulty?? I don’t think so. 
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #5 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:17 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:17 PM
Even after a reboot...the skins folder was STILL there...at that point it finally was deletable. 
How can you expect the average user to go thru all that?We dont have time for all those shennanigans...stop what your doing...reboot...finish deleting...just to test a damn skin update.
How can you expect the average user to go thru all that?We dont have time for all those shennanigans...stop what your doing...reboot...finish deleting...just to test a damn skin update.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #6 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:19 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:19 PM
Shut up Nicholasworld...Yes,it IS too much trouble to do...especially while werking.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #7 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:22 PM
Reply #7 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:22 PM
Pretend your a skinner for a sec...Kitty sends me an update to test...John sends me an update,Basj sends me an update...etc...get the picture doofus?
vStyler
Reply #8 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:24 PM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:24 PM
Fact is when consulting with several skinners updating each others skins on eaches machines frequently then YES..rebooting gets REAL old REAL fast..Also, I don't remember stardock ever mentioning that a reboot was required to remove a skin.
NicholaSSworld take your insults elsewhere please, no one is interested in what you have to say. You contribute nothing here but insults and inuendo. A waste..frankly im getting REAL sick of it. You contribute N O T H IN G.
NicholaSSworld take your insults elsewhere please, no one is interested in what you have to say. You contribute nothing here but insults and inuendo. A waste..frankly im getting REAL sick of it. You contribute N O T H IN G.
MeSleeper
Reply #9 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:32 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:32 PM
Guys - isn't the font load a Windows issue? Doesn't Windows manage the fonts? The only way to delete them is to unload them from Windows (which is what re-boot does).
Have you asked Stardock directly to see if they could add a warning box after a skin delete? Surely a check could be made to see if the folder has been fully deleted. If it hasn't, a warning box could pop-up instructing the user to re-boot and manually delete the folder. Perhaps that's the whole point of your post
Sleep
Have you asked Stardock directly to see if they could add a warning box after a skin delete? Surely a check could be made to see if the folder has been fully deleted. If it hasn't, a warning box could pop-up instructing the user to re-boot and manually delete the folder. Perhaps that's the whole point of your post
Sleep
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #10 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:34 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:34 PM
That would be something at least for the end user...
But dosnt do diddly for the skinner.
But dosnt do diddly for the skinner.
Nicholasworld
Reply #11 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:39 PM
So?? Just deleted and rebooted should still have residues out there.
It’s font matter of setting by Windowblinds on system. Unless Neil has considering tackling this issue in future update, it didn’t affect Windowblinds functionality on user.
Reply #11 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:39 PM
Pretend your a skinner for a sec...Kitty sends me an update to test...John sends me an update,Basj sends me an update...etc...
So?? Just deleted and rebooted should still have residues out there.
rebooting gets REAL old REAL fast..Also, I don't remember stardock ever mentioning that a reboot was required to remove a skin.
It’s font matter of setting by Windowblinds on system. Unless Neil has considering tackling this issue in future update, it didn’t affect Windowblinds functionality on user.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #12 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:40 PM
Sometimes the folder and fonts in question havnt even been used...so windows NEVER loaded them.Only WB is holding them for some reason...I've had EMPTY skin folders that wouldnt delete...no hidden files...NOTHING.
Reply #12 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:40 PM
Guys - isn't the font load a Windows issue? Doesn't Windows manage the fonts? The only way to delete them is to unload them from Windows (which is what re-boot does).
Sometimes the folder and fonts in question havnt even been used...so windows NEVER loaded them.Only WB is holding them for some reason...I've had EMPTY skin folders that wouldnt delete...no hidden files...NOTHING.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #13 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:42 PM
WRONG Wouldnt delete fonts NOT BEING USED.NOT LOADED IN MONTHS.SKINS THAT HAD NOT BEEN APPLIED IN MONTHS!So STFU you ignorant moron.
Reply #13 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:42 PM
It’s font matter of setting by Windowblinds on system. Unless Neil has considering tackling this issue in future update, it didn’t affect Windowblinds functionality on user.
WRONG
Wouldnt delete fonts NOT BEING USED.NOT LOADED IN MONTHS.SKINS THAT HAD NOT BEEN APPLIED IN MONTHS!So STFU you ignorant moron.
vStyler
Reply #14 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:45 PM
Yea.. that and not having to reboot to delete a font that is no longer being used ANYwhere.
Reply #14 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:45 PM
Perhaps that's the whole point of your post
Yea.. that and not having to reboot to delete a font that is no longer being used ANYwhere.
Nicholasworld
Reply #15 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:45 PM
Nope,it still in use,you have to reboot to get release of some fonts seeting on system.
Reply #15 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:45 PM
Sometimes the folder and fonts in question havnt even been used...so windows NEVER loaded them.
Nope,it still in use,you have to reboot to get release of some fonts seeting on system.
Nicholasworld
Reply #16 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:48 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:48 PM
I quit disucussing. I wonder Administrator should take concern on scurrilous comments as I keep seeing it.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #17 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:50 PM
You dont get it stupid...Sometimes even skins that were not applied for months...fonts that were not used for months.
Reply #17 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:50 PM
Nope,it still in use,you have to reboot to get release of some fonts seeting on system.
You dont get it stupid...Sometimes even skins that were not applied for months...fonts that were not used for months.
eieio
Reply #18 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:50 PM
you never fail to crack me up, Michael.
I don't pretend to know all about it but it seems as if the font shouldn't have to be an issue. If I'm correct, the Xion skin format, for example, loads fonts contained in the skin file dynamically; deleting the skin causes no similar issues such as IR and vStyler describe.
Seems as if WB could be made to do the same. It sure would be a lot more user .. er, skinner friendly.
Reply #18 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:50 PM
get the picture doofus?
you never fail to crack me up, Michael. I don't pretend to know all about it but it seems as if the font shouldn't have to be an issue. If I'm correct, the Xion skin format, for example, loads fonts contained in the skin file dynamically; deleting the skin causes no similar issues such as IR and vStyler describe.
Seems as if WB could be made to do the same. It sure would be a lot more user .. er, skinner friendly.
vStyler
Reply #20 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:52 PM
Reply #20 Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:52 PM
Let me clarify a little.. If my skin uses Calibri and I delete the skin from WB.. then Calibri should be deletable from the WB directory when I unload WB and am using LUNA.. which does not use Calibri. Yet the font remains undletable until after a reboot. Its very simple.
and Nick.. if you continue to insult people and no one does anything about it on our behalf.. we will resort to lowering ourselves to your level. I have asked you repeatedly to stop following me around, insulting me and causing trouble, yet you continue to do so.
So.. I will echo my colleague's sentiments.. stfu.
and Nick.. if you continue to insult people and no one does anything about it on our behalf.. we will resort to lowering ourselves to your level. I have asked you repeatedly to stop following me around, insulting me and causing trouble, yet you continue to do so.
So.. I will echo my colleague's sentiments.. stfu.
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Reply #1 Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:53 PM
Because the skin is not completely deleted , many times when trying to update it after "deleting" It does not not update correctly and in some cases causes bizzare anomalies in the skin.
Say's its deleted...its not....completely.
After almost a week back and forth exploring this ..we gave up. I personally, until something can be done about it will not update any skins for any reason.
This has been brought up before to no avail. We thought we would give it another shot.
The first function of a skinning engine IMO..before anything else should be to seamlessly transition from one theme to another, whether updating or installing.
P L E A S E advise. It's personally killing me.