Still lessons to be learned...
Sunday, March 4, 2007 by Cyberworld | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
We are used to call WC as a community...still does this really apply to the site?
A definition of community could possibly be the aggregate of persons with common characteristics such as geographic, professional, cultural, racial, religious, or socioeconomic similarities. Communities can be defined by location, race, ethnicity, age, occupation, interest in particular problems or outcomes, or other common bonds. The main bonding element of communities is communication, hence the likeness of the words. And from what my experience has taught me is that in WC there is a serious lack of it.
People don't actually come here to socialize, they come here to download skins, themes and other skin related stuff. Very few comments, very few forum posts and very few post replies in comparison to other communities. If you do need stats here are some:
WC Stats:
30 037 Posts
384 915 Replies
Founded: 2001
DA Stats:
689 502 Posts
14 534 399 Replies
Founded: 2000
So i guess there are still lessons to be learned... 
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Cyberworld
Reply #2 Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:59 AM
Reply #2 Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:59 AM
I'm enjoying this site as well. I have been for a long long time, since it's my 6th year around here. You are right that size does not correspond to better quality, but people's attitude does. It's just that i have this constant complaint that members don't really interact much. If you need particular stats i can say to you that in 6 years here i commented 1135 times (most of them being Thanks for a Wow or Great), whilst in less than a year over at DA i already gave 5700 meaningful comments. See that gives you the size of difference. Oh and timing is not related to other posts, it's just that i have some time now and came back for a while to see what goes on. The results are rather depressing.
arcturus13
Reply #3 Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:13 AM
Reply #3 Sunday, March 4, 2007 10:13 AM
What do you mean "the results are rather depressing"? Does that mean your opinion of what is taking place day-to-day? (not being critical, just wondering)
I'm not too sure about the not interacting though - I stay on the fringes around here (cuz of lack of knowledge and experience), but it seems like there are a lot of people who interact with each other very often, and not necessarily only on this site. I drop by other related sites - skinartistry, DA, etc. - and see the same names everywhere, interacting with each other. I think that is a big part of what I see, and makes me comfortable, here.
I have only "hung around" for a year or two (so I don't know what it used to be like), but I get the impression that members who have been around for many years (and it is noted you are a "master apprentice") often feel it was better early on - but, I think that it is not uncommon to find that people like a smaller more intimate group/community better. I have found it easier to feel comfortable here, than on other sites dedicated to the same topics. I have not joined many other forums on other sites, but in checking around the net it seems most forums I check out end up with way too many harsh comments and criticisms, of the posters and replies, more often. I attribute that to the anonymous nature the internet offers - and to me it seems worse at larger sites. (Just my opinion)
Your 5700 comments does show me that you find DA more comfortable, but I would still like to see total numbers of members and comments, considering the greater diversity of work at DA (last I remember seeing there were something like 23,000,000 deviations, is that accurate ??). And also, most the posts here do concern themselves with skinning - which seems to define the idea of this being a community with a common interest.
I'm not too sure about the not interacting though - I stay on the fringes around here (cuz of lack of knowledge and experience), but it seems like there are a lot of people who interact with each other very often, and not necessarily only on this site. I drop by other related sites - skinartistry, DA, etc. - and see the same names everywhere, interacting with each other. I think that is a big part of what I see, and makes me comfortable, here.
I have only "hung around" for a year or two (so I don't know what it used to be like), but I get the impression that members who have been around for many years (and it is noted you are a "master apprentice") often feel it was better early on - but, I think that it is not uncommon to find that people like a smaller more intimate group/community better. I have found it easier to feel comfortable here, than on other sites dedicated to the same topics. I have not joined many other forums on other sites, but in checking around the net it seems most forums I check out end up with way too many harsh comments and criticisms, of the posters and replies, more often. I attribute that to the anonymous nature the internet offers - and to me it seems worse at larger sites. (Just my opinion)
Your 5700 comments does show me that you find DA more comfortable, but I would still like to see total numbers of members and comments, considering the greater diversity of work at DA (last I remember seeing there were something like 23,000,000 deviations, is that accurate ??). And also, most the posts here do concern themselves with skinning - which seems to define the idea of this being a community with a common interest.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #4 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:31 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:31 PM
Your statistics are highly misleading, given the difference in size between the sites. Lets look at it another way:-
WC has a post for every 1.7 submissions
DA has a post for every 26.1 submissions
Statistics can say whatever you want them to 
NightTrainthedark
Reply #5 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:36 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:36 PM
Statistics can say whatever you want them to
ZubaZ
Reply #6 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:38 PM
Reply #6 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:38 PM
Cyberworld
Reply #7 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:48 PM
Reply #7 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:48 PM
Well to explain the depressing state:
a. The site got a new interface that is not quite stable, as was the previous one to say. I often get tons of errors messages and forums don't always work.
b. Alot of good people i hear them leaving (already 5 skinners gone, maybe more to follow). But that's maybe cause i caught the site at a bad time.
c. There is still no PM system implemented to the site. A site this large should have already develop a code for this.
d. The rating system is still the same and i wouldn't like to analyze this further.
e.
You are right though that this in a stricter sense is a more compact or specialized skinning community, cause DA goes way beyond that. Is not just art or skinning, it's all that a member may be concerned with. Also in DA there are 33 million devs now.
Now you may understand the above statements. I'm not old enough to pass judgement, but i have the right to see what was going on and what is currently happening.
a. The site got a new interface that is not quite stable, as was the previous one to say. I often get tons of errors messages and forums don't always work.
b. Alot of good people i hear them leaving (already 5 skinners gone, maybe more to follow). But that's maybe cause i caught the site at a bad time.
c. There is still no PM system implemented to the site. A site this large should have already develop a code for this.
d. The rating system is still the same and i wouldn't like to analyze this further.
e.
I'm not too sure about the not interacting though - I stay on the fringes around here (cuz of lack of knowledge and experience), but it seems like there are a lot of people who interact with each other very often, and not necessarily only on this site. I drop by other related sites - skinartistry, DA, etc. - and see the same names everywhere, interacting with each other. I think that is a big part of what I see, and makes me comfortable, here.
The community is still too introverted. There is a core of 500, maybe 1000 people who comment and chat and all the others are just downloaders. (Bear in mind that the site has 4 million unique visitors per day). Your above comment reinforces that.You are right though that this in a stricter sense is a more compact or specialized skinning community, cause DA goes way beyond that. Is not just art or skinning, it's all that a member may be concerned with. Also in DA there are 33 million devs now.
Now you may understand the above statements. I'm not old enough to pass judgement, but i have the right to see what was going on and what is currently happening.
ArileenDesign
Reply #8 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:52 PM
and more are silly devs! sorry but that's the true look at mine LOL!
Reply #8 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:52 PM
Also in DA there are 33 million devs now.
and more are silly devs! sorry but that's the true look at mine LOL!
ogman
Reply #9 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:55 PM
Well said.
Reply #9 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:55 PM
Your statistics are highly misleading, given the difference in size between the sites. Lets look at it another way:-
WC has a post for every 1.7 submissions
DA has a post for every 26.1 submissions
Statistics can say whatever you want them to
Well said.
Cyberworld
Reply #10 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:55 PM
What do you mean??? A forum post has to do with skin submissions how?
The point was to see the evolution of Forums on the two largest communities in the world.
Reply #10 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:55 PM
WC has a post for every 1.7 submissions
DA has a post for every 26.1 submissions
DA has a post for every 26.1 submissions
What do you mean??? A forum post has to do with skin submissions how?
The point was to see the evolution of Forums on the two largest communities in the world.
Cyberworld
Reply #11 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:56 PM
Silly or not it's still the expression of human beings.
Reply #11 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:56 PM
and more are silly devs
Silly or not it's still the expression of human beings.
Cyberworld
Reply #12 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:59 PM
If you need more you can look at this: WWW Link
You'll find more than enough to satisfy your needs.
Reply #12 Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:59 PM
Benjamin Disraeli said:
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
If you need more you can look at this: WWW Link
You'll find more than enough to satisfy your needs.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #13 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:03 PM
Reply #13 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:03 PM
What do you mean??? A forum post has to do with skin submissions how?
People don't actually come here to socialize, they come here to download skins, themes and other skin related stuff. Very few comments, very few forum posts and very few post replies in comparison to other communities. If you do need stats here are some
You were trying to draw a comparison between sites, stating there are very few forum posts here. I was merely pointing out the difference in the size of the two sites and how more active this site is than DA, given the number of submissions which show the respective sizes of the sites
Z71
Reply #14 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:13 PM
Reply #14 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:13 PM
Don't know who you are, but you've convinced me.
I want to do my part, so I'll stop submitting skins and just post comments. Any way that I can help this community.
If I post screenshots of comments, would that be a skin or a comment?
I want to do my part, so I'll stop submitting skins and just post comments. Any way that I can help this community.
If I post screenshots of comments, would that be a skin or a comment?
Cyberworld
Reply #15 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:15 PM
Reply #15 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:15 PM
Actually i was trying to stress the need for more forums in WC and a much better communication system for the members in order to become a viable future community. I'm not here to be a DA advocate or promoter. I do love this site. I just don't like seeing it gradually losing its power.
And since you insist on comparisons...
Traffic Rank for deviantart.com: 106 Alexa Source: WWW Link
Traffic Rank for wincustomize.com: 3,551 Alexa Source: link="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=wincustomize.com"]WWW Link[/link]
I'm not here to be a DA advocate or promoter. I do love this site. I just don't like seeing it gradually losing its power.And since you insist on comparisons...
I was merely pointing out the difference in the size of the two sites and how more active this site is than DA
Traffic Rank for deviantart.com: 106 Alexa Source: WWW Link
Traffic Rank for wincustomize.com: 3,551 Alexa Source: link="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=wincustomize.com"]WWW Link[/link]
NightTrainthedark
Reply #17 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:24 PM
Yaa..Ok!
Reply #17 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:24 PM
I'm not here to be a DA advocate or promoter.
Yaa..Ok!
Cyberworld
Reply #18 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:24 PM
I hope you meant that for real. A Master would be a good start to set an example.
If it's meant to be funny through sarcasm then i need not say anything. I'd just be a bit sad.
Reply #18 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:24 PM
Don't know who you are, but you've convinced me.
I want to do my part, so I'll stop submitting skins and just post comments. Any way that I can help this community.
I want to do my part, so I'll stop submitting skins and just post comments. Any way that I can help this community.
I hope you meant that for real. A Master would be a good start to set an example.
If it's meant to be funny through sarcasm then i need not say anything. I'd just be a bit sad.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #19 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:26 PM
Reply #19 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:26 PM
Forum hiccup...
Your sure as hell not here to promote WC.
Your sure as hell not here to promote WC.
Cyberworld
Reply #20 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:28 PM
No i don't. Please elaborate.
Reply #20 Sunday, March 4, 2007 1:28 PM
You know very well what is meant by 'active'
No i don't. Please elaborate.
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Reply #1 Sunday, March 4, 2007 9:36 AM
By the definition you put forward WC seems to fit the criteria exactly - communication by people with a common interest (skinning), communicating about that interest. Using a strict interpretation of this definition DA could possibly be considered less of a community since the interests and artwork there are more varied and diverse. I can't find how many members DA has, but I'm assuming it's more than WC - I don't feel size is any indication of a better community. I'd be interested to see stats on posts and replies based on relative numbers of members. And, I'm not sure I see the relevance of the socializing comment - there seems to be plenty of that (witness the number of members who post on a regular/daily basis, and the sometimes, may we say peculiar/bizarre topics - not always about skinning - that end up being discussed!).
The timing of this post makes me wonder if it is making it's own comment about the recent other posts concerning members who have left the community. What has transpired in those posts only seems to prove the "community" aspect of WC - people with common interests freely discussing what is important and relevant to them and other members. A community is not always, nor does it need to be, "warm and fuzzy".
I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion (and you are a member posting this to initiate a discussion within this "community") - I just feel WC fits your definition, and I am enjoying being part of this community.