Leave and NEVER come back.
Those who would impose their wills on us are not welcome here
Friday, March 2, 2007 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
WinCustomize is a PG-13 site. It is also a site where people are encouraged to discuss issues on skinning and customization in an open environment.
But over the past few yeras, I've watched WinCustomize's forums degrade from being the central point in the skinning community for discussion of skins and themes to being a monolithic forum filled with self-appointed elites who stifle contrarian thoughts and opinions through bullying and intimidation.
That ends now. When we launched WC2K7, I made clear that I would be stepping in to put an end to the rank elitism that permeates the forums from time to time.
To those who would attack, insult, or demean others for having different points of view I say leave and NEVER come back. To those who use the arguemnt "This is a family site" as a shield to impose their own brand of tyranny you are not welcome here.
This site is not designed for people who are under the age of 13. We are not catering to children. We are catering to adults but allow people who are 13 and over. We allow people to discuss and disagree issues.
An incident occurred in this thread that provides an opportunity for us to make clear that those who would try to bury discussion with threats will not longer be welcome here.
For too long, people have used the threat of removing their works to crush disent to their opinions. When someone threatens to take their creations and leave the discussion always changes from what was being discussed to trying to convince the offended to stay. Over time, this has resulted in a great loss in diversity of thought and discussion on this site.
What this community does not need are a handful of self-appointed elitists trying to force their points of view down the throats of others.
This is a COMMUNITY site. It is not a site for snobby, self important elites who get kicks out of trying to bully others and impose their wills on others.
To any skinner or user woh has a problem with this. Leave and never come back. Remove your things and GO. GO NOW and never ever return.
From here on, if I see someone trying to force their opinion or end a discussion they disagree with by threatening to remove their creations and leave, I will force the issue. I will exile them and have their works deleted from this site.
We want a community where people feel comfortable discussing any issue that relates to skinning and customization without fear of reprisal, personal attack, or intimidation.
If someone disagrees with a policy of the site, a decision of the moderators, or has a problem with a user, let it be discussed civily and openly without someone commanding others to adhere to their demands lest they take their things and go. Because that time is over now.
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Reply #102 Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:15 PM
“Will also be rejected any artwork promoting discrimination, prejudice or any form of disrespect to any ethnic, religious or gender group”.
There seem to be a number of members here, many women, who feel the acceptance of this picture contravenes the guideline of disrespecting a gender group.
Why?
The picture is of a model who it is stated is in her mid twenties..........now. No one has been able to verify when the photo was taken, so her age, now, is a little irrelevant. As Asian women do have a younger look......it is very probable she was of legal age in this picture.
But the point people have been trying to make here is the fact that facially, this is a very childlike photo attached to a provocative pose.......not just a girl in a bikini shot.
CLWoods delicately described it as a ‘come hither’ pose.........IR gave it National Geographic channel ‘presenting’ connotations, but now we have established this is an adult site, we can tell it like it is.......
It is a picture of a female with a childlike demeanour with her bum in the air in a ‘come fuck me’ pose.
Whether the female is 12, 24 or 55 with a bloody good plastic surgeon is not necessarily the point. The intention of the photo is very clear.
Age aside.....the picture is tacky at best.
That being said......how on earth do you justify the statement......
("That girl is clearly mid 20s"...??)
Reply #103 Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:50 PM
vStyler, logic class calls the fallacy you used as "Slippery slope fallacy".
Basically, it goes like this: Innocent change -> series of unlikely steps -> DOOM!!
Since the owner himself stated that this site is PG-13 site, that is unlikely to change, so slippery slope scenario is unlikely to happen, since that entails higher adult ratings such as R.
I rarely use curse words myself, but I WILL use them as appropriate at certain sites. For example I never use curse words at certain toy collector forums which kids is VERY likely to attend and read posts.
Reply #104 Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:51 PM
Reply #105 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:00 PM
For me and i talk only for me, The girl is not the same woman or the same but in younger age. Look at well the two picture and search errors LOL
Not same mouth
Not same Ears
not same Eyes
Not same "Bibs" (sorry ladies i can't translate this in a right word in french i want to said "seins")
For me it's not Porn but it's a suggestive pose for bad/mad minds/people that sure and also i'm not agree with this but if (in an other world) mods have show it and accepted we are us to want to change that and change rules. The rules are clear and must be respected.
Now don't forget that is not the contents of this tread. The content is not moderation make by moderator/admin (all we can make mistakes)
Now the mater is that Frogboy tell us that i don't want a auto proclaim elite in his site but a real communauty of people/skinner who can help others and improve their work and friendship. And yesterday/Today We can see only people who want to impose their opinions LOL and hurt others Insults others Claim their opinion but don't see /listen/read others... I'm Sad!
The Mater of CLwoods/Tawoods/... Is regulated as soon as they have leaved WC
I find damage someone claim they understand why and they have not talk with them by mails or other (visit Clwoods DA site and look at her journal for example)
I find damage Brad must be make an example here ( and for me isn't needs to banned them cause they really don't want to back here after that but at last news is Brad the boss)
I find damage that the comunauty go on hell today for that. I really think this kind of issue must be regulated by emails/Pm and not in a forum.
Now it's made... Thus a little kindness is welcome stop to hellfire others for their opinions.
Reply #107 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:03 PM
“Will also be rejected any artwork promoting discrimination, prejudice or any form of disrespect to any ethnic, religious or gender group”.
There seem to be a number of members here, many women, who feel the acceptance of this picture contravenes the guideline of disrespecting a gender group.
Why?
The picture is of a model who it is stated is in her mid twenties..........now. No one has been able to verify when the photo was taken, so her age, now, is a little irrelevant. As Asian women do have a younger look......it is very probable she was of legal age in this picture.
But the point people have been trying to make here is the fact that facially, this is a very childlike photo attached to a provocative pose.......not just a girl in a bikini shot.
CLWoods delicately described it as a ‘come hither’ pose.........IR gave it National Geographic channel ‘presenting’ connotations, but now we have established this is an adult site, we can tell it like it is.......
It is a picture of a female with a childlike demeanour with her bum in the air in a ‘come fuck me’ pose.
Whether the female is 12, 24 or 55 with a bloody good plastic surgeon is not necessarily the point. The intention of the photo is very clear.
Age aside.....the picture is tacky at best.
That being said......how on earth do you justify the statement......
"We don't allow chick walls"
It wasn't a wallpaper submission. It was a screenshot of a person's desktop.
CL Woods and others have every right to disagree with something that has been submitted. They have the right to make posts about it.
However, they do not have a right to insult and personally attack other individuals over it.
Moreover, they chose to remove their works from WinCustomize.com as an act of protest in order to drive home the point that there will be consequences if the site does not obey them.
I am simply making it clear that there are consequences to trying to bully others into doing as you say through coersion.
WinCustomize supports people's right to disagree with a submission. But a person's rights end where another's begins as I've said previously.
Reply #108 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:07 PM
That is another thing that will not be happening as much. I do not think it is okay for people to just close threads when a discussion is deemed "done" by some moderator.
Closing threads should only happen if the discussion has competely devolved into a flame fest which isn't going to happen in this thread (since I'd have no problem enforcing the no personal attacks rule directly).
Reply #109 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:12 PM
Apparently from everything I've read...this images original intention before it was ever posted here was to be that of a young girl posed in a sexually suggestive pose. So with that in mind...I think its safe to say...and I have to agree...that it falls under these guidelines...“Will also be rejected any artwork promoting discrimination , prejudice or any form of disrespect to any ethnic, religious or gender group ”.
...whether or not the screenshot was covered according to guidelines for screenshots.
This whole fiasco could have been avoided if these guidelines had been held up. If I may suggest a quick check list for mods in regards to images such as this might help. If this girl had been posed in a less than suggestive pose I don't think it would have gotten the reaction it did.
Personally I thought the image was a bit tacky as well...but I just ignored it and moved on.
Reply #114 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:12 PM
All the comments about this being a family site are nice and I think true but, in my family we don't always agree, sometimes we argue but, in the end we respect one another no matter what.
It's great to live in a country and belong to a forum where you are free to express your opinions openly.
Reply #115 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:29 PM
Indeed. The world isn't all gumdrops and puppy dogs, and sometimes we have to deal with things we don't agree with, with out becoming a martyr. It seems the whole situation was blown out of proportion and it probably isn't right (morally or factually) to place the blame on just a couple of the people, but it also shows we can use a little more tact in disagreeing with others.
Reply #116 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:52 PM
I realize that the people who left are your friends and it's admirable that you come to their defense. However, anyone reading that thread with anything other than completely biased eyes can see what was said that brought on Brad's reaction. Trying to insult me will not change that fact.
ogman I've sent an email to you to talk to you privately. Yes the people who left are people I consider friends (TA&CA Woods & Boopish). This isn't the first time I thought Brad could use some help with his people skills, I've expressed that on other occasions and that's been my concern. Make this out to what ever you want all sides made some mistakes (in my opinion). learn from this or perish. Now ogman if you wise to continue this discussion you have my email. People drop this and learn. PEACE
Reply #117 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:55 PM
I consider her my student and good friend. Hope things work out Bet.
Reply #118 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:59 PM
Agreed. But what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, I wish her luck.
..on a side note I bet theres a former crackhead somewhere that had an easier time quitting drugs than me being able to not refresh this thread.
Reply #119 Saturday, March 3, 2007 9:45 PM
Reply #120 Saturday, March 3, 2007 10:04 PM
I liked this movie the first time when it was called ChiChiGirl.
I find it pretty humorous seeing the handful of people coming down on Frogboy. clwoods and the others said they were leaving. They kept saying they were leaving. He just closed the door behind them.
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Reply #101 Saturday, March 3, 2007 3:29 PM
and it's good i think and like Fuzzy said if we are a mater with a skin/SS/themes and if in our minds is not an appropriated things here emails is the good way.
I had this mater in last weeks and that was regulated into private quickly. And in this way nobody was publicly humiliated. In fact a help was even brought.