Is art worthless on the Internet?

People will pay for some crazy things but cry foul over paying for artwork

Tuesday, February 20, 2007 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News

Today Stardock Design released its first "Master" Dream to the Dream (animated wallpaper) gallery. It's the one Microsoft showed off at some of its events.  As some know, Microsoft worked with Stardock to make some of the animated wallpapers for use with Windows DreamScene. Windows DreamScene (the software) is a feature for Windows Vista Ultimate users.  Most of the content we created for Microsoft hasn't been released yet (it will be available from Microsoft).  In the process of creating the animated wallpapers for Microsoft, we made a bunch of extra ones for WinCustomize.com which had nothing to do with our work with Microsoft.

So far, Stardock Design has released 6 free .Dreams and 1 premium .Dream.  On top of that, Stardock has released DeskScapes as freeware and DreamMaker as freeware.  And of course, we host the Dreams here on WiniCustomize which, on their own, used over 2 TERRABYTES of bandwidth.  So from our vantage point, Stardock's been "the good guy". Providing lots of free stuff, lots of free software and providing a free site to get it on. 

But Stardock's also a business. The costs of producing all this has to be made up somewhere or else we wouldn't be able to keep doing it.  But some people seem to be very vocal in their outrage that artists won't work for free. They'll happily pay Microsoft $400 for Windows Vista Ultimate but cry bloody murder about paying third party artists $4.95 for content.  My Xbox 360 cost quite a bit too but amazingly, the games aren't free. Those "greedy" game companies! 

Here's some of the comments on Blissful Sunset:

"It's absolutely ridiculous that they're charging for this-- it's just wrong. But for people who own Vista Ultimate, just wait, I guarantee you that this will come w/ the final Dreamscene when it's released. "

According to this user, it's morally wrong for artists to be paid for their work.  He's quite incorrect about Blissful Sunset coming with the final.

Another user wrote this:

"The implication (with MS showing it at official events) is that this development is work that was part of your contract with MS and therefore has already been subsidized and is in fact being paid for by all of us by our shelling out extra bucks for Ultimate edition."

This falls under the "no good deed goes unpunished" category.  Microsoft was looking for high quality content to show off during their demos but didn't want to give away some of the stuff that will be coming in the final release so they asked us if they could show the extra content we made. We agreed to let them. After all, it's pretty cool to see your work up on stage. But this person (and others) have tried to argue that we should simply give away all the animated wallpaper for free that we've made because we made the ones that come with it.  How does that make sense?

Over at Valve's Steam website, a user posted "Stardock sux" and writes:

"This is just unbelievable. Stardock is now charging us for what is supposed to be a FREE Vista Ultimate Extra"

This line of thinking is equivalent to saying that someone who bought say Half-Life 2 via Steam is somehow entitled to HL2: Episode 0 and HL2: Episode 1 and so forth. After all, they paid for Half-Life, why should they have to pay for additional content?  In fact, that's been one of the trends in the "outrage" group. Sure, there's 18 dreams that are free. But they shouldn't have to pay for anything because they bought Windows Vista Ultimate. I just totally can't grasp that mindset.  In what universe does someone buying a version of Windows entitle them to free software and content created by third parties?  Heck, my cell phone tries to get me to pay money for additional ring tones!

So here's what's going to happen -- one of these 2 things are going to occur:

Possibility #1: Users decide animated wallpaper is worthless.  In that case, Stardock Design won't be creating any more for consumers. Remember, Stardock Design currently has a 6 to 1 ratio in free to premium content.  At that point, consumers would just have to hope that individual artists  --who understand that there's no chance they'll ever be able to even make some extra side income from their efforts-- will take the time to create spectacular animated wallpapers that loop perfectly and are encoded in high quality at high-definition. Maybe that would happen but I wouldn't count on it.

In addition, since the bandwidth bill would still exist, users would have to buy WinCustomize subscriptions to download after awhile.  So the "free beer" crowd would have to find their content elsewhere. But don't count on these being available on most sites. At 50+ megabytes a pop, it's a lot of bandwidth. Someone has to pay for it.

And of course, that would mean the software would have to start charging for extra features. Want to pay 3D dynamic content? The user would have to get the "Pro" version.  The point being, the costs of producing, supporting, and developing this stuff has to come from somewhere. Personally, I think a system which nearly everything is free but a handful of premium content isn't free is a pretty good arrangement for everyone.

Possibility #2: Enough users decide that there's value to animated wallpaper. If something comes along that is of exceptional quality happens to ask for a few bucks, then it's worth buying.  In that event, what would happen is that it would attract more and more talented people who would submit lots of free ones in the hope of eventually being able to occasionally release premium ones to help recoup their time and costs. It's worth mentioning one more time - Stardock Design's free to non-free ratio so far is 6 to 1. If other studios and independent artists of great skill start to do the same, that sounds like a win-win.

So far, the results have been good. In the first 4 hours of "Blissful Sunset" we sold over 200 copies of it. Whether that trend continues remains to be seen. There's always a big bump at the beginning. The typical WindowBlinds Master skin has an initial bump and then eventually trends to around 5 per day after awhile.  But even 5 per day, put over time, is worth it.  The author's share of that ends up being around $3,500 per year per skin (not counting the initial bump) -- enough to buy a new computer.  But skins are different because it's an established thing.  Animated wallpapers are brand-new. How things progress with animated wallpaper remains to be seen.

 

First Previous Page 8 of 10 Next Last
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #141 Friday, February 23, 2007 5:38 PM
Trust me I wish I could turn all these people away at door and only take patients with cash in hand


Tha says more about you than anything I could come up with shadowlord...you dont like working for free either...but I know medical care fees are jacked up astronomically just for that reason...to get medical care providers paid properly.(by the ones that actually have insurance and federal/state funding)

Artist dont get those options.
elmastero1
Reply #142 Friday, February 23, 2007 6:08 PM
if YOU CAN PAY $400 FOR WINDOWS THEN YOU CAN PAY $5 for the artist work and time that they put in stop whinging


I must be the only person on this site who bought the OEM copy.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #143 Friday, February 23, 2007 6:15 PM
As for my value level for MD's...(I dont include surgeons here...that takes skill)...I'm 47 with lifelong health issues so I've been to a lot of doctors...(mainly because I couldnt find ONE that knew what he was doing,listened to what I said or CARED)
They are a bunch of pill pushing fools who on a couple of occasions have nearly killed me,prescribed meds that made you nuts or traded one health issue for another.

My pharmacist knows more about medicine.I have solved more of my own health issues than any doctor ever did.80% of the money I have spent on doctors had no value.

Since I'm a lowly nobody skinner who hasnt reached master status yet...I can offer an introductory price for you of 1500$ for a windowblind...no animations tho,that would be extra.  

I promise it will work at least as well as the meds my doc prescribes.  
NightTrainthedark
Reply #144 Friday, February 23, 2007 6:17 PM
I promise it will work at least as well as the meds my doc prescribes


    
ArileenDesign
Reply #145 Friday, February 23, 2007 8:09 PM
I promise it will work at least as well as the meds my doc prescribes.


tawoods
Reply #146 Friday, February 23, 2007 8:16 PM
I promise it will work at least as well as the meds my doc prescribes.


A helluva lot better
_02
Reply #147 Friday, February 23, 2007 8:43 PM
They are a bunch of pill pushing fools who on a couple of occasions have nearly killed me,prescribed meds that made you nuts or traded one health issue for another.


I can commiserate with you on this. In fact I shouldn't get started. I don't have a doctor and the last one I did never addressed the reason I was there and almost killed me trying to find things wrong that weren't. I have only been sick enough to need a doctor one time since I was a kid. That was in 1990. The last one I went to was for the arthritis I have in my hip.
At any rate, I have been blessed to have been taught Herbal Medicine by A Cherokee Medicine Woman and therefore treat myself. To make a very long story short the AMA, Pharmaceutical companies and Doctors are the biggest killers and thieves in the world and they are doing it while smiling to our faces.
Stay strong IR. Keep a positive attitude. Laugh as much as you can and learn as much as you can about alternative treatments for your particular condition. There is already an herbal cure for cancer, but thanks to the AMA it is almost impossible to find anyone brave enough to sell it anymore. The Doctors only interest in us is to prolong our suffering so they can milk us dry and do their experiments and get kick backs from the drug makers. The rats and the guinea pigs are not alone.
And now back to the topic of this thread.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #148 Friday, February 23, 2007 8:56 PM

I don't understand what any of this is about. Why would anyone assume the content shown in an O/S demo should be part of the deal. Should I assume the Star Wars DVD being shown on the LCD TV I just bought is included with the TV? That's just dumb.

Given the lack of intelligence some people show I just wonder how ever they make it though the day... 

ArileenDesign
Reply #149 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:00 PM
well said
tawoods
Reply #150 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:01 PM
Given the lack of intelligence some people show I just wonder how ever they make it though the day...


and the fact that they usually prosper at it is even scarier
NightTrainthedark
Reply #151 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:03 PM
Don't hate me but I think we are the fools for giving them a microphone.
tawoods
Reply #152 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:07 PM
Don't hate me but I think we are the fools for giving them a microphone.

don't you think its best that they step up so they can be recognized
NightTrainthedark
Reply #153 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:09 PM
if recognized means ..lined up in formation...yup!   
SirSmiley
Reply #154 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:10 PM
Given the lack of intelligence some people show I just wonder how ever they make it though the day


Unfortunately, intelligence has very little to do with success. :/
Jafo
Reply #155 Friday, February 23, 2007 9:53 PM

This thread/debate clearly shows there are two opposing 'opinions' from two disparate groups.

On one hand there are those outside the 'industry' who believe they know what it's all about, and on the other there are those within the 'industry' who actually DO know.

Now, rather than accept the explanation/education from those who have the expertise/experience they instead postulate all wonderous forms of fantasy/ideals and appear to have an intent to remain uninformed.

There can only be two reasons for this.... a patent inability to input knowledge, or a deliberate decision to remain obtusely garnering entertainment-value from button-pushing the 'opponent'.

Be it 'reasons why Wincustomize.com was created', or 'actual price-structures attained by commissioned skin works', or 'who paid whom for .dream creation/development' there's a lot of FUD being spread about. [were it manure there'd be even MORE grass in that image.... ]

The laugh is...when a definitive statement is made it's either side-stepped or outright ignored.

Selective information insemination will always trip you up....eventually...

I.R. Brainiac
Reply #156 Friday, February 23, 2007 10:06 PM
[were it manure there'd be even MORE grass in that image.... ]


  
The_Llama
Reply #157 Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:40 AM
What bait and switch? Even I saw the dream site had a very very clear place for premium content. WinCustomize has been talking about master skins for months.

That's why I put the word seeming between italic tags. Seeming... as in it seemed like there was one, but there isn't. My whole point is that I was upset because of the way things were presented as opposed to the way that they are. I'm also not blaming the people here, or the artists.

Obviously a lot of the people complaining... including myself, aren't normal wincustomize members. We're people who came here because Vista pointed us here. And then we were faced with paying for content. This SEEMED like not getting what we paid for and I think that's where a lot of grips are coming from. Not every post is an attack or a justification. Mine was just trying to point something out.
The_Llama
Reply #158 Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:42 AM
PS, what is FUD?
Shadow Lord
Reply #159 Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:54 AM
interesting 'because we have to' is your 1st reason


Ddi you read the rest of the post? Like I said I make no bones about the fact that I work to make money. I am not a charity nor care to be.

you're telling me that just about any hospital will only charge me exactly what they pay - so then, hospitals are actually paying $5 and up for aspirin? that they don't try to recoup unpaid costs?


You'd be surprised how much things (liek say a simple screw for orthopedic surgery) costs. But the question was on profits and hospitals are not in the business to make profits.

Tha says more about you than anything I could come up with shadowlord...you dont like working for free either...but I know medical care fees are jacked up astronomically just for that reason...to get medical care providers paid properly.(by the ones that actually have insurance and federal/state funding)


Like I want to make the most money possible for the work I do? I've never ever denied that. But I also realise what the market reality is... i.e. I don't expect to charge $800/hr because I think that is what my time is worth.

And what medical fees are jacked up? In fact for the most part (i.e. unless you pay in cash up front) medical fees are determined by insurance companies and not the doctors. You think a doctor really considers an office visit to be worth your measly $5 co pay???

Bichur
Reply #160 Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:56 AM
Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt


Obviously a lot of the people complaining... including myself, aren't normal wincustomize members


no sweat... go back through some pages and read some from those that have been here a while..


I'm curious... are there as many complaints at the MS forums? (assuming they have one)

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