Microsoft: Open workplace internet or lose your staff
Wednesday, August 23, 2006 by Island Dog | Discussion: WinCustomize News
A Microsoft Senior Desing Anthropologist said job seekers will think twice about working for a company who locks down the internet during work hours.
She says, "These kids are saying: forget it! I don’t want to work with you. I don’t want to work at a place where I can’t be freely online during the day."
I'm sure people will take different stands on this issue because businesses say that allowing open internet will cause less work to be done throughout the work period. Others seem to say it will be a benefit to the employee.
What do you think?
She says, "These kids are saying: forget it! I don’t want to work with you. I don’t want to work at a place where I can’t be freely online during the day."
I'm sure people will take different stands on this issue because businesses say that allowing open internet will cause less work to be done throughout the work period. Others seem to say it will be a benefit to the employee.
What do you think?
 |
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
GhoS
Reply #3 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:27 PM
I don't understand why companies would want to not lock it down. So what if their employees are complaining. I would venture the ones complaining aren't the ones who are the most productive. What could possibly be the advantages if having access to the internet except to waste time? Most companies have an intranet for company specific internet needs.
I say let the complainers walk because apparently they don't wish to go to work to work.
I even hear some people don't have internet at home because they have it at work. So the company they work for is paying for their internet use as well as paying for them as a worker. It doesn't make sense.
Keep it locked down.
I say let the complainers walk because apparently they don't wish to go to work to work.
I even hear some people don't have internet at home because they have it at work. So the company they work for is paying for their internet use as well as paying for them as a worker. It doesn't make sense.
Keep it locked down.
Tecumseh
Reply #5 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:46 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:46 PM
There is way too much anal micro-management in today's workplace. Leave the Internet accessable and fire the workers who abuse the privilege and who are not performing at or above the company's proficiency standards. Employees perform at much higher levels when they are given ownership in their part of the organization.
DesignCaddy
Reply #6 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:55 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:55 PM
lock it down. I'm on the internet all day, but being realistic, the company has a right to protect its investments.
IT is too busy to monitor 200 employee's internet habbits. Less of people installing toolbars, travelosity/weather/shopping system tray terds, and ad/shopware that gums up the computer.
IT is too busy to monitor 200 employee's internet habbits. Less of people installing toolbars, travelosity/weather/shopping system tray terds, and ad/shopware that gums up the computer.
steelsnake
Reply #7 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:17 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:17 PM
Being the BOFH responsible for the whole infrastructure of my employer, let me say this:
When the corporate network was established a couple of years ago, the owner decided to leave internet access open, and only set written policies on internet use. Productivity did not suffer from it. However, the maintenance costs went through the roof because of trashed machines.
Thus the computers themselves were locked down tighter - which DID impact productivity and did nothing to make them any less reliable. Even a fully locked down Windows box is in all truth anything BUT locked down for a local user who has to have the ability to load stuff from removable media - including executing programs.
Finally I overrode the bosses decision and locked down the network tighter as a drum. EVERY action on the network gets logged: file accesses, programs run, documents opened and so on and so on. In addition, internet access got limited to the point where employees went through a filtering proxy and have the ability to request opening a blocked page. Productivity is back up, and last years tech support costs were the lowest in company history.
I would never, ever, give employees open access to the internet again. The only people who have unrestricted access here are managers, the main office staff and the IT department and a few selected people who subjectively (i.e. in my opinion) seemed to be responsible users - but even for that group, every single thing they do on a computer gets monitored. Paranoid? Yes, because the majority of humans are generally irresponsible, careless and generally need a gun pointed to their heads to make sure they work as they should.
The only thing that's now down is my popularity, and I could not care less about that.
Just recently the boss instated a new rule: Try to circumvent the imposed restrictions and go look for a new job - no exceptions, you get fired the same day.
When the corporate network was established a couple of years ago, the owner decided to leave internet access open, and only set written policies on internet use. Productivity did not suffer from it. However, the maintenance costs went through the roof because of trashed machines.
Thus the computers themselves were locked down tighter - which DID impact productivity and did nothing to make them any less reliable. Even a fully locked down Windows box is in all truth anything BUT locked down for a local user who has to have the ability to load stuff from removable media - including executing programs.
Finally I overrode the bosses decision and locked down the network tighter as a drum. EVERY action on the network gets logged: file accesses, programs run, documents opened and so on and so on. In addition, internet access got limited to the point where employees went through a filtering proxy and have the ability to request opening a blocked page. Productivity is back up, and last years tech support costs were the lowest in company history.
I would never, ever, give employees open access to the internet again. The only people who have unrestricted access here are managers, the main office staff and the IT department and a few selected people who subjectively (i.e. in my opinion) seemed to be responsible users - but even for that group, every single thing they do on a computer gets monitored. Paranoid? Yes, because the majority of humans are generally irresponsible, careless and generally need a gun pointed to their heads to make sure they work as they should.
The only thing that's now down is my popularity, and I could not care less about that.
Just recently the boss instated a new rule: Try to circumvent the imposed restrictions and go look for a new job - no exceptions, you get fired the same day.
MarkSnyder61
Reply #8 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:48 PM
Reply #8 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:48 PM
Well I can honestly say it diminishes work load tremendously. When I was going to school for my MCSE Certification, all the students did was surf the net while the instructor lectured, and later wondered why they couldn't pass a test for their Certification. Just my input! 
Erk.
Reply #9 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:29 PM
Reply #9 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:29 PM
If it's locked down where I work, nothing would get done.
Everything we do is done via the net now. I run a visitor information center & tour booking service.
Ninety-nine percent of our bookings are done online these days. If the internet is down, we have to use a manual ticketing system ~which is a right royal pain-in-the-butt.
We also use the internet for searching information on tours/products we may not carry or have displayed. So, it's necessary to be on the net for my/our jobs.
However, I do have complete access to the work computers from home [when I'm on days off etc.] so I can see what my staff are up to at any given time. It's not something I really need to check very often ...as I know that the staff are just too busy with customers to be surfing the net. Our office/shop is in a prime location, and is heavily trafficked ..all day.
I do agree with the majority here ...If the net is not a major tool in the workplace, then it should be locked down. Screw the buggers who won't work if there's no net ..they weren't going to do much anyway, and would'nt last long working for me
Everything we do is done via the net now. I run a visitor information center & tour booking service.
Ninety-nine percent of our bookings are done online these days. If the internet is down, we have to use a manual ticketing system ~which is a right royal pain-in-the-butt.
We also use the internet for searching information on tours/products we may not carry or have displayed. So, it's necessary to be on the net for my/our jobs.
However, I do have complete access to the work computers from home [when I'm on days off etc.] so I can see what my staff are up to at any given time. It's not something I really need to check very often ...as I know that the staff are just too busy with customers to be surfing the net. Our office/shop is in a prime location, and is heavily trafficked ..all day.
I do agree with the majority here ...If the net is not a major tool in the workplace, then it should be locked down. Screw the buggers who won't work if there's no net ..they weren't going to do much anyway, and would'nt last long working for me
Corky_O
Reply #10 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:07 PM
Reply #10 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:07 PM
Our company allows Internet access to those who need to do any business related work.
They also have keystroke logging and internet tracking software, so that when annual reviews come around, these are part of the process. If the supervisor giving the review sees someone out at a dating site, or other sites not related to work on company time (not lunch or before shift start), then the pay increase may be affected.
IMO - a good policy.
One big reason Internet access becomes an issue here, is due to the novice user who thinks nothing of going to their online e-mail account and opening dubious e-mails, which often results in headaches for the IS / IT personnel. These same users seem to be unaware of the downtime in the network that can occur due to their inability to use the Internet with some level of awareness of potential hazards. 
Now the productivity of not only the individual is affected, but many other users as well.
sharpshark28
Reply #11 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:56 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:56 PM
I think it depends on the job, I have nothing against locking it down but I would like it to be open. If you have a job you should be responsible enough to not use the internet for anything stupid. Locking it down prevents people from using great things such as Google's writely or Google Speadsheets.
-scion-
Reply #12 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:29 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:29 PM
remember this:
having internet at work is a privaledge, not a right. your employer is responsible for providing the tools nessesary to do your job. if the net is a tool that you need, they can very well restrict access to anything other than what you require. you don't require access to your personal email or need the ability to monitor your fantasy football team to do your job. unless fantasy football and email IS your job. internet at work is a tool, not a toy.
written policies are nice, but in this day and age people will use any excuse imaginable to link their job to that video game website they visit 800 times a day, no matter what their job is.
having internet at work is a privaledge, not a right. your employer is responsible for providing the tools nessesary to do your job. if the net is a tool that you need, they can very well restrict access to anything other than what you require. you don't require access to your personal email or need the ability to monitor your fantasy football team to do your job. unless fantasy football and email IS your job. internet at work is a tool, not a toy.
written policies are nice, but in this day and age people will use any excuse imaginable to link their job to that video game website they visit 800 times a day, no matter what their job is.
Aleatoric
Reply #13 Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:53 AM
Reply #13 Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:53 AM
I think a lot of it has to do with the reasons for allowing/denying internet access. I can't say I have a lot of sympathy for someone who will freak out and turn down what might be an otherwise good job just because they can't browse the web. But on the other hand, there are quite a few job duties that are benefitted by (if not require) general internet access.
One can make the argument that a company intranet should have all information needed by an employee, but that's very difficult to achieve, especially for most information workers. General research is a *required* ability for any good information worker, and the internet can be an invaluable source of information, and unnecessarily restricting that access is counterproductive.
Most of the 'analysis' that states that this kind of thing is detrimental to productivity tends to be shortsighted or outright wrong. If the people who work for me (or with me) are doing their jobs, and meeting their deadlines, deliverables, etc., I don't really care if they spend a little time browsing the web, or doing personal business, or whatever. People should be measured by how well they meet their job duties, not by how 'busy' they appear to be.
IMHO, the only close to reasonable argument is the spyware/malware/unsupported applications problem with unrestricted internet access. That's not an unsolvable problem, even when allowing access. The company I work for allows us to have general internet access (and has no general problem even with personal use, within reason), but we don't have any significant problem with the negative effects (spyware, etc.), because the individual boxes are pretty well locked down, there are reasonable filters on some types of sites, and the employees are held fully accountable if they do something stupid. People are judged on their *performance*, not on 'looking busy'. As a result, the employees are better able to do their jobs, they feel like they aren't being micromanaged by some moron who can't figure out how to measure actual productivity, and the generally loose attitude about the work environment reduces work stress and actually improves the overall working conditions. We don't have the spyware/malware, etc. problems because we actually manage the environment, we don't just put some policy in place and hope it will solve all of our perceived 'problems'.
It's a simple truism: if you cannot properly manage your people when they have things like relatively open internet access (or any other 'perk'), you cannot properly manage them if they do not have these things, either. You get an order of magnitude more work out of an employee who is content and feels like they have some freedom than you get out of an employee who is constantly looking over their shoulder waiting for the axe to drop over even the slightest 'transgression'.
One can make the argument that a company intranet should have all information needed by an employee, but that's very difficult to achieve, especially for most information workers. General research is a *required* ability for any good information worker, and the internet can be an invaluable source of information, and unnecessarily restricting that access is counterproductive.
Most of the 'analysis' that states that this kind of thing is detrimental to productivity tends to be shortsighted or outright wrong. If the people who work for me (or with me) are doing their jobs, and meeting their deadlines, deliverables, etc., I don't really care if they spend a little time browsing the web, or doing personal business, or whatever. People should be measured by how well they meet their job duties, not by how 'busy' they appear to be.
IMHO, the only close to reasonable argument is the spyware/malware/unsupported applications problem with unrestricted internet access. That's not an unsolvable problem, even when allowing access. The company I work for allows us to have general internet access (and has no general problem even with personal use, within reason), but we don't have any significant problem with the negative effects (spyware, etc.), because the individual boxes are pretty well locked down, there are reasonable filters on some types of sites, and the employees are held fully accountable if they do something stupid. People are judged on their *performance*, not on 'looking busy'. As a result, the employees are better able to do their jobs, they feel like they aren't being micromanaged by some moron who can't figure out how to measure actual productivity, and the generally loose attitude about the work environment reduces work stress and actually improves the overall working conditions. We don't have the spyware/malware, etc. problems because we actually manage the environment, we don't just put some policy in place and hope it will solve all of our perceived 'problems'.
It's a simple truism: if you cannot properly manage your people when they have things like relatively open internet access (or any other 'perk'), you cannot properly manage them if they do not have these things, either. You get an order of magnitude more work out of an employee who is content and feels like they have some freedom than you get out of an employee who is constantly looking over their shoulder waiting for the axe to drop over even the slightest 'transgression'.
skybright
Reply #14 Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:31 AM
Reply #14 Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:31 AM
I have two very good reasons for the total lock down position. I will make this short and sweet. I have two sisters In two completely different jobs in completely different States thousands of miles away from each other who on purpose do not have internet service at home because they have total access at work and email accounts and all. They both even have access at work on weekends because of overtime. I am not talking about kids. My sisters are much older then I. To give you a clue they are "baby boomers" looking to retire in five years or so. So the problem surpasses age. It can be a problem for any company anywhere without reguards to age. So I say LOCK IT DOWN!!!
Aleatoric
Reply #15 Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:08 AM
If the companies that they work for don't have a problem with thier behaviour, then there's certainly no reason for you to have a problem with it. And if their companies do have a problem, then your sisters should be disciplined or fired. There's certainly no reason for your sensibilities to have any involvement in the matter at all.
There is nothing inherent about internet access that creates someone who will abuse their job or slack off needlessly. If that internet access didn't exist, those kind of people would find something else to waste their time on.
If you want to manage a bunch of children, work at a day care. If you want to manage adults, judge them on their performance, not on what you think they might be doing behind your back.
Reply #15 Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:08 AM
| I have two very good reasons for the total lock down position. I will make this short and sweet. I have two sisters In two completely different jobs in completely different States thousands of miles away from each other who on purpose do not have internet service at home because they have total access at work and email accounts and all. They both even have access at work on weekends because of overtime. I am not talking about kids. My sisters are much older then I. To give you a clue they are "baby boomers" looking to retire in five years or so. So the problem surpasses age. It can be a problem for any company anywhere without reguards to age. So I say LOCK IT DOWN!!! |
If the companies that they work for don't have a problem with thier behaviour, then there's certainly no reason for you to have a problem with it. And if their companies do have a problem, then your sisters should be disciplined or fired. There's certainly no reason for your sensibilities to have any involvement in the matter at all.
There is nothing inherent about internet access that creates someone who will abuse their job or slack off needlessly. If that internet access didn't exist, those kind of people would find something else to waste their time on.
If you want to manage a bunch of children, work at a day care. If you want to manage adults, judge them on their performance, not on what you think they might be doing behind your back.
aufisch
Reply #16 Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:23 AM
Reply #16 Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:23 AM
Well, research without an open internet access would be almost but impossible. Accessing online Journals, and online search-engines (e.g. Web of Knowledge, OVID,.....), communicating with other scientists on news-groups, exchanging information via dedicated Websites, sourcing and ordering research equipment online....
At least in the research sector, the net has actually increased productivity. Only 10 years ago it would take sometimes hours of spending in the library, searching through "Biological Abstracts" or other similar archives, just to find that single relevant journal-article. If that Journal didn't happen to be in the same library, an official request-form had to be filled out which was then faxed to the library who did keep the Journal. Then an overworked librarian had to find the relevant article for you and make a copy of it and send it to you via snail-mail...... you get the idea....
I am not sure, but at least in Switzerland keyloggers, secret cameras and other "spying tools" are not allowed unless the employee is informed of their existence beforehand.
At least in the research sector, the net has actually increased productivity. Only 10 years ago it would take sometimes hours of spending in the library, searching through "Biological Abstracts" or other similar archives, just to find that single relevant journal-article. If that Journal didn't happen to be in the same library, an official request-form had to be filled out which was then faxed to the library who did keep the Journal. Then an overworked librarian had to find the relevant article for you and make a copy of it and send it to you via snail-mail...... you get the idea....
I am not sure, but at least in Switzerland keyloggers, secret cameras and other "spying tools" are not allowed unless the employee is informed of their existence beforehand.
RomanDA
Reply #17 Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:45 AM
Reply #17 Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:45 AM
Our network is so "locked down" we are unable to access updates we NEED to download for software or hardware WE support. With all the proxy server problems, multiple routers, and issues with the way they have the system borked, its so slow we were getting downloads of around 20k on a T-1 line. Its so bad we gave up. We installed a separate DSL line that has NO connection to our business lan. And about 80% of us use this DSL line. I have to tell you that we are a regional office with 30 employees, and our main office is about 4 states away.
We get these LAME emails telling us that the web is for WORK purposes only, and then it goes on to bitch that the #1 web site visited is GOOGLE.com? Well DUHHHHHH, people USE google to search for things, and believe it or not they might even use it to search for WORK RELATED things. They went on to say that they were looking at way to block google, and other search engines, what the hell? Ok, give us DIAL-UP Speed, then block the things we need to use, yeah.. that's a GREAT plan. And its no wonder why people find alternative ways to do things.
Locking things down is one thing, making it USELESS is another. If you make it so there is no way to even do basic things like download sw/hw updates, search the Internet, or get emails then you are just making it a useless network.
If you don't trust your employees that much, FIRE THEM. It's simple, trust people to do the job you hired them to do and if management see someone abusing this, then deal with that 1 person, don't hamstring the entire company for the actions of 1 or 2. Its this kind of mentality that makes people look for ways around the rules.
We are given laptops that have so much CRAP on them we cant even change the network IP address. Oh yeah, as I'm a Field Engineer, and one of my main jobs is to go on-site and work on the networks of our customers (who, damn them, don't all have the same ip addressing, can you believe that?) and when we complained to out IT people we were told "there is no need to be able to change your IP address to access our network". HELLO? did you even hear what we said? its not accessing the lame outlook or office printer its accessing our customers lans, and doing the job we are hired to do. So when a laptop comes in, we take the drive out, sit it on a shelf, and put in a new drive and load it so we have the s/w we need and are able to do the work we need to do. WHY? why should this be the case? If IT cant listen to the employees of the company (and doesn't IT work FOR the company, not the other way around?) then what is the point.
I know all about IT, i working as the IT administrator for a 300 person company for 7 years, and numerous other companies before that, so i know what I'm talking about. When IT becomes I WONT then its time for IT to go BYE BYE.
Just my 2 cents.
We get these LAME emails telling us that the web is for WORK purposes only, and then it goes on to bitch that the #1 web site visited is GOOGLE.com? Well DUHHHHHH, people USE google to search for things, and believe it or not they might even use it to search for WORK RELATED things. They went on to say that they were looking at way to block google, and other search engines, what the hell? Ok, give us DIAL-UP Speed, then block the things we need to use, yeah.. that's a GREAT plan. And its no wonder why people find alternative ways to do things.
Locking things down is one thing, making it USELESS is another. If you make it so there is no way to even do basic things like download sw/hw updates, search the Internet, or get emails then you are just making it a useless network.
If you don't trust your employees that much, FIRE THEM. It's simple, trust people to do the job you hired them to do and if management see someone abusing this, then deal with that 1 person, don't hamstring the entire company for the actions of 1 or 2. Its this kind of mentality that makes people look for ways around the rules.
We are given laptops that have so much CRAP on them we cant even change the network IP address. Oh yeah, as I'm a Field Engineer, and one of my main jobs is to go on-site and work on the networks of our customers (who, damn them, don't all have the same ip addressing, can you believe that?) and when we complained to out IT people we were told "there is no need to be able to change your IP address to access our network". HELLO? did you even hear what we said? its not accessing the lame outlook or office printer its accessing our customers lans, and doing the job we are hired to do. So when a laptop comes in, we take the drive out, sit it on a shelf, and put in a new drive and load it so we have the s/w we need and are able to do the work we need to do. WHY? why should this be the case? If IT cant listen to the employees of the company (and doesn't IT work FOR the company, not the other way around?) then what is the point.
I know all about IT, i working as the IT administrator for a 300 person company for 7 years, and numerous other companies before that, so i know what I'm talking about. When IT becomes I WONT then its time for IT to go BYE BYE.
Just my 2 cents.
r@mJET
Reply #18 Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:53 AM
Reply #18 Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:53 AM
"Lock it down with exceptions for managers"
Funny a company i worked for,during a network search pornography was found on many a managers notebook or desktop pc.
Funny a company i worked for,during a network search pornography was found on many a managers notebook or desktop pc.
Corky_O
Reply #19 Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:07 AM
Our company uses keylogging and usage tracing, and all users are informed via a "splash" dialog outlining the conditions of use of the companies computer system previous to being able to logon to the system. By clicking "OK", you agree to the terms or your session is ended immediately - before you can logon to the system.
This is a common practice by network administrators here in Seattle. It removes the ambiguity of the requirements and expectations of use, thus avoiding the "I had no idea I was not supposed to do that", or at least provides for a legal avenue of firing the individual for improper conduct on the job.
Reply #19 Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:07 AM
| I am not sure, but at least in Switzerland keyloggers, secret cameras and other "spying tools" are not allowed unless the employee is informed of their existence beforehand. |
Our company uses keylogging and usage tracing, and all users are informed via a "splash" dialog outlining the conditions of use of the companies computer system previous to being able to logon to the system. By clicking "OK", you agree to the terms or your session is ended immediately - before you can logon to the system.
This is a common practice by network administrators here in Seattle. It removes the ambiguity of the requirements and expectations of use, thus avoiding the "I had no idea I was not supposed to do that", or at least provides for a legal avenue of firing the individual for improper conduct on the job.
lilstarfish
Reply #20 Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:25 AM
Reply #20 Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:25 AM
There is a simple solution that works in most company environments where access to the net can sometimes be useful.
Set up one or two computer stations that are always on-line and can be used by personel who now and then need to find information and/or download whatever they might need to perform their job task. Place these stations where they can be seen and accessed by most people. Make a temp folder that is shared by everyone in the company and from where downloaded stuff can be read from the users work computers (read, not deleted, deletion of temp files can be automatically set to occur, for example, every night or every week, depending on the ammount of space available) .
Limit their work computer's net access to only let e-mails in and out, no serious companies allow im-programs on their computers. There may of course be local communication solutions.
This effectively make people able to focus on their task, not distracting them, and at the same time giving them the possibility to quickly go online and find whatever they may be missing should they need to.
Set up one or two computer stations that are always on-line and can be used by personel who now and then need to find information and/or download whatever they might need to perform their job task. Place these stations where they can be seen and accessed by most people. Make a temp folder that is shared by everyone in the company and from where downloaded stuff can be read from the users work computers (read, not deleted, deletion of temp files can be automatically set to occur, for example, every night or every week, depending on the ammount of space available) .
Limit their work computer's net access to only let e-mails in and out, no serious companies allow im-programs on their computers. There may of course be local communication solutions.
This effectively make people able to focus on their task, not distracting them, and at the same time giving them the possibility to quickly go online and find whatever they may be missing should they need to.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Reply #1 Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:30 PM
Frivolous surfing costs far more than lost productivity. It adds to IT costs from removal of spyware, unauthorized applications, games, yadayadayada..