Creating a better, closer knit, community
Suggestions?
Saturday, November 19, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
One thing that I think would be good for our community would be to encourage people to interact more together.
Right now, roughly 3,000 people visit this site more than 20 times a day. I would say that's the hub of our "hard-core" community.
I'm not looking to increase that #. What I want to do is find ways to encourage more of those 3,000 to interact on the site. To make comments on skins, forum posts, articles, and news items and interact on things like the map community we set up.
What do you think can be done to encourage that?
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scorpio-logic
Reply #42 Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:53 AM
https://www.wincustomize.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=167&AID=91543&cmd=myposts#713424
I posted this after my first few days reading posts and comments. I thought that it might start something, but it seems no one really read it...
Po: all ya gotta do is give an honest opinion. If you don't like it, then why? If you like it, then why? There should be no need to be fearful of what you say, as long as it is not vulgar or attacking...right?
Yepper, need more mods....
Hey! I only emailed back once, and thank you for even emailing me with a reason!
Absolutely! And a set of instructions as to how to fill all those nice pages WC gave us!!!
And if you go back now, and read this whole thread you'll see that not that many names actually posted anything...interesting and revealing I think. I am interested in community. This one is the one I've chosen to become a member. I have felt very useful so far, even though my contributions are as yet slim and only in the informational department. Today was my birthday, and I spent it browsing the way back of WC and WB...I downloaded some of the oldies from 2001, 2002. Just to see what the skins were like back then. Wow, the first Aero...now that was prehistoric! But still very good.
I completely agree with Jafo in #8 and Bx has good points also. I would like to help in any way I can. Thanks for reading my 2 cents. Happy Skinning!
Reply #42 Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:53 AM
| Create a section or page that is dedicated to outlining the how's and why's of commenting and participating in the community |
https://www.wincustomize.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=167&AID=91543&cmd=myposts#713424
I posted this after my first few days reading posts and comments. I thought that it might start something, but it seems no one really read it...
| I have trouble 'critiquing' |
Po: all ya gotta do is give an honest opinion. If you don't like it, then why? If you like it, then why? There should be no need to be fearful of what you say, as long as it is not vulgar or attacking...right?
| No, there would be special comment mods. |
Yepper, need more mods....
| one unobscured screenshot wall |
Hey! I only emailed back once, and thank you for even emailing me with a reason!
| Personal profiles/pages could have much more 'info' opportunities for people to find out about others' likings, interests, etc.... |
Absolutely! And a set of instructions as to how to fill all those nice pages WC gave us!!!
And if you go back now, and read this whole thread you'll see that not that many names actually posted anything...interesting and revealing I think. I am interested in community. This one is the one I've chosen to become a member. I have felt very useful so far, even though my contributions are as yet slim and only in the informational department. Today was my birthday, and I spent it browsing the way back of WC and WB...I downloaded some of the oldies from 2001, 2002. Just to see what the skins were like back then. Wow, the first Aero...now that was prehistoric! But still very good.
I completely agree with Jafo in #8 and Bx has good points also. I would like to help in any way I can. Thanks for reading my 2 cents. Happy Skinning!
scorpio-logic
Reply #43 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:06 AM
Reply #43 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:06 AM
The link I posted in #42 has a link in it, the point of the link was the link, if you get my meaning...I mean, well, it's all relative. 
aufisch
Reply #44 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:18 AM
Reply #44 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:18 AM
I would prefer to see more involvement from the moderators on the forums. There seems to be only the same few interacting with the "rest of the community". The fact that after more than three years I still don't know how many (and who!) there are, seems to point to a communication problem. Even after such a long time it is unclear for me who is responsible for what, and who I should contact if I should run into a problem.
For example; it was only due to Corky's response to NT's comment in this very thread, that I found out that he was promoted to moderator. There might have been a thread about it, but if you don't keep up with reading every single thread on the forum, then you just don't know.
I would love to have one of those little boxes on the side of the page that tells you who is on-line. I am aware that this might not be possible for everyone with such a huge site, but why not have one that tells you which moderator is on-line and where (IRC, forums, galleries...) he/she is?
A 'Shout-box' could help to improve community spirit as well, but again, this site might be just to large to setup such a thing.
The way this site is designed at the moment, it feels a bit like one of those huge suburbs surrounding any capital city. People interact less with each other and are less close knit, than people in the small mountain village. With my desktop set to 1024x768, if I open the WC-homepage, I can't even read the latest News-article without scrolling down. All I see is the Popular and Featured skin-section plus a bit of the "Featured article" and that add-thing. I loved the old 3 column design, which gives you much more information on first sight without having to actively scrolling and searching for it.
I would recommend to remove the "Top advocates" and "Community" (which could be on a 'links'-page) sections from the front-page and fill it up with something that actually allows people to interact with each other without having first to click through 20 pages, or thinking of re-designing the front page to a less scroll intensive 3 column layout, which could see a shout-box (and maybe some sort of direct link to a 'live' chat room) on the left side. ....Comming to think of it, the ability to have private messaging and the capability of participating in a live chat might also be used as an incentive to recruit new subscribers.
For example; it was only due to Corky's response to NT's comment in this very thread, that I found out that he was promoted to moderator. There might have been a thread about it, but if you don't keep up with reading every single thread on the forum, then you just don't know.
I would love to have one of those little boxes on the side of the page that tells you who is on-line. I am aware that this might not be possible for everyone with such a huge site, but why not have one that tells you which moderator is on-line and where (IRC, forums, galleries...) he/she is?
A 'Shout-box' could help to improve community spirit as well, but again, this site might be just to large to setup such a thing.
The way this site is designed at the moment, it feels a bit like one of those huge suburbs surrounding any capital city. People interact less with each other and are less close knit, than people in the small mountain village. With my desktop set to 1024x768, if I open the WC-homepage, I can't even read the latest News-article without scrolling down. All I see is the Popular and Featured skin-section plus a bit of the "Featured article" and that add-thing. I loved the old 3 column design, which gives you much more information on first sight without having to actively scrolling and searching for it.
I would recommend to remove the "Top advocates" and "Community" (which could be on a 'links'-page) sections from the front-page and fill it up with something that actually allows people to interact with each other without having first to click through 20 pages, or thinking of re-designing the front page to a less scroll intensive 3 column layout, which could see a shout-box (and maybe some sort of direct link to a 'live' chat room) on the left side. ....Comming to think of it, the ability to have private messaging and the capability of participating in a live chat might also be used as an incentive to recruit new subscribers.
TYCUS
Reply #45 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:30 AM
mmmmmmmmmhhhhhhh...,well..., i´m going to tell you a little secret..., KkoNne, Darkma(Darkfussion team) and me..., TYCUS, are working in a little proyect..., DON´T GET SCARE, WE ARE MAKING A SUITE... a pure Mexican suite...
Reply #45 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:30 AM
| interact |
mmmmmmmmmhhhhhhh...,well..., i´m going to tell you a little secret..., KkoNne, Darkma(Darkfussion team) and me..., TYCUS, are working in a little proyect..., DON´T GET SCARE, WE ARE MAKING A SUITE... a pure Mexican suite...
starkers
Reply #46 Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:55 AM
But now it's not a secret anymore
The suite sounds good tho.....looking forwards to seeing it
Reply #46 Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:55 AM
mmmmmmmmmhhhhhhh...,well..., i´m going to tell you a little secret... |
But now it's not a secret anymore
The suite sounds good tho.....looking forwards to seeing it
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #47 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:45 AM
Reply #47 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:45 AM
The 'About' section needs a major overhaul, most of the info is the same as when I joined the site More information needs to be added as to how the site, forums, libraries etc work.
I don't know what happens to new members - I haven't been one for a while 
But what about a new user info/welcome pack sent be e-mail detailing how everything works etc and inviting them to take part.
PM is something everyone wants. Another thing highly useful would be a list of which moderators are online. The current list of moderators needs an e-mail link adding for each
I'd like to see the 'Recommended' page re-named 'Favourites' and 'Recommend this item' on skins changed to 'Add to Favourites'. This is something most people would recognise better. Then maybe add awards for favourites (given and received).
The Home page needs to be that - a home page, with information aimed at the new user. At the moment it's just a news page. News needs to be given a new page of its own, with the home page dedicated to showing people what's happening on the site, where they can find information, what everything means and who is whom.
Cyberworld
Reply #48 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:58 AM
Reply #48 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:58 AM
Well some personal suggestions for the community and ways to increase interaction:
a. Points for prizes system for skin commenters: For each comment made one point awarded. Obligatory rule for a comment to be a comment: 6 or 7 word minimum limit to be used (That is how many words are in a normal sentence). There should be milestones, like say 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 comments which when bridged will give the commenter an award, not a shield, but an actual prize, like a Premium Suite or a small program (CursorXP,Icon Packager,etc). You can put an increased milestone, say 3000, 5000 for bigger program (WB,DX Pro) and an ultra milestone of 10000 comments for the award of Object Desktop. That should boost up commenting. Alas no Popular List of commenters is needed, this is no popularity contest as stated earlier.
b. Make the Forum Tab button on the upper part of the page red and flashing abit. Silly as it sounds this is a way to draw attention to it. Someone that sees something flashing will want to check it out. Curiosity has always been a main characteristic of human race.
c. Implement a Shoutbox for the community. It is a way to communicate.
d. Give a specially built WC RSS Reader Gadget (that will provide news for new Uploads, News and New Threads) with each WC Browser for each subscriber. That should keep you up-to-date with WC News and Recent Uploads.
Well i hope these make sense. At least some of them. 
Have a good day everyone.
a. Points for prizes system for skin commenters: For each comment made one point awarded. Obligatory rule for a comment to be a comment: 6 or 7 word minimum limit to be used (That is how many words are in a normal sentence). There should be milestones, like say 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 comments which when bridged will give the commenter an award, not a shield, but an actual prize, like a Premium Suite or a small program (CursorXP,Icon Packager,etc). You can put an increased milestone, say 3000, 5000 for bigger program (WB,DX Pro) and an ultra milestone of 10000 comments for the award of Object Desktop. That should boost up commenting. Alas no Popular List of commenters is needed, this is no popularity contest as stated earlier.
b. Make the Forum Tab button on the upper part of the page red and flashing abit. Silly as it sounds this is a way to draw attention to it. Someone that sees something flashing will want to check it out. Curiosity has always been a main characteristic of human race.
c. Implement a Shoutbox for the community. It is a way to communicate.
d. Give a specially built WC RSS Reader Gadget (that will provide news for new Uploads, News and New Threads) with each WC Browser for each subscriber. That should keep you up-to-date with WC News and Recent Uploads.
Well i hope these make sense. At least some of them.
Have a good day everyone.
Cyberworld
Reply #49 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:02 AM
Reply #49 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:02 AM
Supplementary ideas:
When someone becomes a member WC send him an e-mail with a copy of Skin Primer by Brad and some other basic tutorials on how to go around the site. Also urge new members to be active in the community.
When someone becomes a member WC send him an e-mail with a copy of Skin Primer by Brad and some other basic tutorials on how to go around the site. Also urge new members to be active in the community.
Fairyy~
Reply #51 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:03 AM
Im not sure you understood my meaning...I meant that it is significant
I dont think a lot of people quite understood what you were trying to show them. But...I did understand. Not everyone has had the priviledge of a more indept explanation about this issue as I had from you.
There was also an incident that you were needed to help clear up an issue. So you see...its all significant.
Reply #51 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:03 AM
| Do you really believe that is insignificant ? fairyy ....it's insignificant when considered within a site of this magnitude...and the numbers of works/screenies submitted daily.....it is, however 'significant' when considered on an individual basis...the fact an admin and a site contributor spent so much of each other's time on just one thing...but the result was/is that another member's wall image was not compromised. A site moderator's role is primarily to nurture general goodwill and quell the odd flame of insurrection, and whilst doing, also protect the skinners'/artists' property rights....and treat everyone equally/fairly. Usually that results in the odd nose or two being put out of joint...but ultimately things work themselves out. |
Im not sure you understood my meaning...I meant that it is significant
I dont think a lot of people quite understood what you were trying to show them. But...I did understand. Not everyone has had the priviledge of a more indept explanation about this issue as I had from you.
There was also an incident that you were needed to help clear up an issue. So you see...its all significant.
Fairyy~
Reply #52 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:23 AM
One word comments are still ok " Thankyou " still works without much fanfare. As for that bad first impression...people cant always agree all the time..what fun would that be? But I can understand a new person being hesitant to say much. Its not really like that most the time..I always say whats on my mind.
Now..getting back to the Subject matter.
I think the way the Forum is set up might be a bit confusing for some..I tend to click on " recent forum activity " but if you forget to mark the thread to " watch " it can be difficult to find your way back. That could discourage people from interacting. I think maybe a section for just chit chat type topics might be a way.
In other words..a section that is meant strickly for fun as opposed to mixing or " hijacking " threads..
Madam Goodmorphing suggested a person have their own thread. Thats a good idea if some threads dont become burried. Maybe a main thread for Community members and then each member has a sub-thread off the main thread. Then its easier to find them..I'm thinking about the Guest books we all have..hardly anyone uses them. I think that if the Personal site links were more visible it might help. New people probably dont even know to click on a user ID to get that info.
Plus at this time...a lot of the " my skins " pages are coming up empty on many Ive tried to view. Some have been that way for months now. Just this AM I tried to view someones " Skins " to look for a blind I saw in a Screen Shot and it says " no skins listed at this time " and there should be...
Reply #52 Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:23 AM
| Canmandeco: I am glad someone else found that disturbing. Unfortunately that was my first impression. Since then I have seen some really good things being said and done. I will start commenting going forward. And I will make sure I have been using the skin and that it is a comment worth reading and not just one word. |
One word comments are still ok " Thankyou " still works without much fanfare. As for that bad first impression...people cant always agree all the time..what fun would that be? But I can understand a new person being hesitant to say much. Its not really like that most the time..I always say whats on my mind.
Now..getting back to the Subject matter.
I think the way the Forum is set up might be a bit confusing for some..I tend to click on " recent forum activity " but if you forget to mark the thread to " watch " it can be difficult to find your way back. That could discourage people from interacting. I think maybe a section for just chit chat type topics might be a way.
In other words..a section that is meant strickly for fun as opposed to mixing or " hijacking " threads..
Madam Goodmorphing suggested a person have their own thread. Thats a good idea if some threads dont become burried. Maybe a main thread for Community members and then each member has a sub-thread off the main thread. Then its easier to find them..I'm thinking about the Guest books we all have..hardly anyone uses them. I think that if the Personal site links were more visible it might help. New people probably dont even know to click on a user ID to get that info.
Plus at this time...a lot of the " my skins " pages are coming up empty on many Ive tried to view. Some have been that way for months now. Just this AM I tried to view someones " Skins " to look for a blind I saw in a Screen Shot and it says " no skins listed at this time " and there should be...
Cyberworld
Reply #53 Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:19 AM
Ditto,i once suggested in a long boring thread that the Guest Books should be a part of the Personal Site front page.
Reply #53 Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:19 AM
| I'm thinking about the Guest books we all have..hardly anyone uses them. I think that if the Personal site links were more visible it might help. |
Ditto,i once suggested in a long boring thread that the Guest Books should be a part of the Personal Site front page.
aimzzz
Reply #54 Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:29 AM
Reply #54 Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:29 AM
Right now, only 3 live threads are visible in the General section-- all others are sticky. Threads are likely to pass through unnoticed under current arrangement... 
aimzzz
Reply #55 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:06 AM
Reply #55 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:06 AM
Just MHO, but I have a concern about adding more points-oriented features to the site. Points & ratings are major sources of grousing & negativity in the Comments & the Forums-- very off-putting for those who are checking us out...
NightTrainthedark
Reply #56 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:10 AM
My thoughts exactly.
Reply #56 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:10 AM
| Just MHO, but I have a concern about adding more points-oriented features to the site. Points & ratings are major sources of grousing & negativity in the Comments & the Forums-- very off-putting for those who are checking us out |
My thoughts exactly.
aimzzz
Reply #57 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:22 AM
Reply #57 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:22 AM
In general, I think it would help to review & address issues that repeatedly lead to complaints, negativity & thread hijacks-- Screen Shots, for example. What can be done differently to address the issues that appear most often?
Discussion, argument, contention & even negativity are important in building a community. But when certain issues come up over & over and when those issues consistently reflect badly on WC, it's time to look at new approaches.
Discussion, argument, contention & even negativity are important in building a community. But when certain issues come up over & over and when those issues consistently reflect badly on WC, it's time to look at new approaches.
Island Dog
Reply #58 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:58 AM
Reply #58 Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:58 AM
I have to agree that the Instant Messaging system would be a great addition to this site.
I would also like the ability to choose which e-mail to make "public", instead of just the one that I registered with.
starkers
Reply #59 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:56 PM
I feel the similarly and have often thought that doing away with ratings and points systems could/would prevent many unpleasant issues ever arising, with nothing to compete for, or get disappointed about. By all means, we should retain the skin comments to interact with the skinners and show our appreciation, etc, but the ratings system seems to have been a regular bone of contention, for one reason or another.
As for the people checking us out, and not scaring them off, how about a 'bitch tank' for subscribers only, where gripe threads can be allocated and not open to casual visitor. Heck, it'd be great....a bit of excitement for when my blood pressure drops a bit too low.
It's less than a perfect world, so there'll always be problems cropping up, the extroverts who speak their mind only too freely, and the introverts who are intimidated by the relatve anonimity of the internet (Wincustomize), and therefore too timid to speak up, for fear of possible criticism, ridicule and even rejection. Whilst many do feel comfortable here, many do not, and these are the people the community needs to encourage and embrace....as in not being like the clicky small towns folk who won't greet anyone they don't recognise as being local.....as in how many of us are guilty of not responding to someone because we don't recognise their nick/name?
It's all well and good to implement new and better features, but in the end, it comes down to how well we use them, because community is still about people and how we interact with them.
Reply #59 Sunday, November 20, 2005 1:56 PM
| Just MHO, but I have a concern about adding more points-oriented features to the site. Points & ratings are major sources of grousing & negativity in the Comments & the Forums-- very off-putting for those who are checking us out.. |
I feel the similarly and have often thought that doing away with ratings and points systems could/would prevent many unpleasant issues ever arising, with nothing to compete for, or get disappointed about. By all means, we should retain the skin comments to interact with the skinners and show our appreciation, etc, but the ratings system seems to have been a regular bone of contention, for one reason or another.
As for the people checking us out, and not scaring them off, how about a 'bitch tank' for subscribers only, where gripe threads can be allocated and not open to casual visitor. Heck, it'd be great....a bit of excitement for when my blood pressure drops a bit too low.
It's less than a perfect world, so there'll always be problems cropping up, the extroverts who speak their mind only too freely, and the introverts who are intimidated by the relatve anonimity of the internet (Wincustomize), and therefore too timid to speak up, for fear of possible criticism, ridicule and even rejection. Whilst many do feel comfortable here, many do not, and these are the people the community needs to encourage and embrace....as in not being like the clicky small towns folk who won't greet anyone they don't recognise as being local.....as in how many of us are guilty of not responding to someone because we don't recognise their nick/name?
It's all well and good to implement new and better features, but in the end, it comes down to how well we use them, because community is still about people and how we interact with them.
eieio
Reply #60 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:14 PM
Yep, needs fixed.
PM and 'Who's online' .. or at least last 20 or so (pick a convenient #) are good ideas. No need to reinvent the wheel ... just look at what most sites do. If a large majority have a particular feature and have had it for quite a while, it probably works or is desired by the users.
As far as community; community is not one site (straight from the chameleon's mouth). Get out more, visit, make friends, expand your horizons. You'll be surprised at how many people from WC you run across at other sites.
Reply #60 Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:14 PM
| Plus at this time...a lot of the " my skins " pages are coming up empty on many Ive tried to view. Some have been that way for months now. Just this AM I tried to view someones " Skins " to look for a blind I saw in a Screen Shot and it says " no skins listed at this time " and there should be... |
Yep, needs fixed.
PM and 'Who's online' .. or at least last 20 or so (pick a convenient #) are good ideas. No need to reinvent the wheel ... just look at what most sites do. If a large majority have a particular feature and have had it for quite a while, it probably works or is desired by the users.
As far as community; community is not one site (straight from the chameleon's mouth). Get out more, visit, make friends, expand your horizons. You'll be surprised at how many people from WC you run across at other sites.
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Reply #41 Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:31 AM
Many different ideas and/or opinions from people either begin or end with "Please dont flame me" or "Go easy on me" etc, etc..
If people feel like they are going to get "Flamed, bashed, ridiculed" for having a different opinion, or not agreeing with something they will be less inclined to say a word at all.
Try being a little less sensitive to someone elses opposite point of view, just because they dont agree does not mean they are flaming you, and it does not make your own opinion/idea/point of view any less important either.. Sometimes it can develop into interesting conversation instead of a "Flame-Fest"
Granted, there are a few bad apples out there that just dont have any "tact" what-so-ever.. They cannot seem to accept that perhaps someone disagrees with them, and yes, "flaming" begins..
Jafo and the others do a pretty decent job at interviening when it gets to that point, and unfortunately with the multitude of personalities on this site these things are going to happen, if for no other reason that simple "misunderstanding"
A little patience, understanding and a little less on the "Defense" may loosen up the community a bit and bring people a little closer...
Just a few of my own observations...