What Stardock gets from Wincustomize?
First level customer service
Saturday, October 29, 2005 by Mel D | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I’ve been following the discussion here about changing Wincustomize to a paid subscription site and making it pay for it’s self for a while now. Now I have a couple of observations. And a question.
I’ve tried DesktopX and I don’t like it. Nothing personal, it just does nothing I need.
I have downloaded some Windowblinds for my Paid for, registered and legal copy of WB and find I use only a very few of them. Out of the 15 or so blinds I’ve downloaded from here and other sites, I use at best 5. And for me, that means I probably wouldn’t use 99% of what will be new content for the next 2 years. I don’t like the wallpapers here, they aren't my taste. I use a couple of IP’s again for my paid for and registered copy of Icon Packager but again, 99% of what’s here I wouldn’t use. Widgets are a cluttery nuisance to me.
Now looking at this from a consumer point of view, that means if I buy WB5 I will not only be buying the upgrade but I’ll be paying for a subscription for a site that-
A. I rarely use the forum. Sorry guys you are often far to clichéish and snide for me to feel comfortable at your forums. Even an innocent newbie question can get short shrift from some of you. And the policing of the forums for civility, patience with non personal friends and tact is not always effective, in fact lately it's been very uncomfortable to even visit the forums. Yes I know some folks here are nice, but, too many are allowed to flame at will or use cutting, rude and elitist remarks at will with no thought to how it will effect future sales/feelings toward the product you claim to support and love.
B. This sites main value for Brad is it offers the public something he doesn’t have to now. First level customer service. Every person who has a skinning or installing problem who gets his question answered here, means that Stardock doesn’t have to pay a CSR to answer email questions about.
C. I get, at best, 3 to 5 useful downloads a year. And as I belong to DeviantArt and quite a few other sites around I usually find the same packages elsewhere.
D. Skinning is a luxury not a necessity. I quit using StyleXp when it got too annoying trying to find clean Spyware free skins and get customer service that made sense and showed someone on the other side gave a rip.
Now the question.
What are you going to do to keep from driving off paying customers like me who don’t buy the whole package and never will? Are you planning to abandon us or is this just a way to raise the price of partial packages since no matter what else you might say the real value point of this site for Stardock is convenient After Sales Service for the public. At this point, a real effort to not alienate people like me and to include us in your future might just save a large percentage of future sales.
Final note to the Community:
There is a good reason I placed A first and B second.
Think about it guys. I was 50/50 when I came to the site and read Brad’s post about needing to make this a paying site. After watching the uncivil smug verbiage on the forum, realizing that the community/self customer service is the only thing that’s being really offered me here that I couldn’t get anywhere else I have to say the forum attitudes may just be the deciding factor to drive me (and maybe a lot of other paying customers) away from Stardock. For most of us, Skins are NOT a necessity. And in the end, fanboys can only go so far. The average guy who doesn't skin, never will, just wants a pretty desktop and who buys the upgrades is who keeps this product financially alive.
I’ve tried DesktopX and I don’t like it. Nothing personal, it just does nothing I need.
I have downloaded some Windowblinds for my Paid for, registered and legal copy of WB and find I use only a very few of them. Out of the 15 or so blinds I’ve downloaded from here and other sites, I use at best 5. And for me, that means I probably wouldn’t use 99% of what will be new content for the next 2 years. I don’t like the wallpapers here, they aren't my taste. I use a couple of IP’s again for my paid for and registered copy of Icon Packager but again, 99% of what’s here I wouldn’t use. Widgets are a cluttery nuisance to me.
Now looking at this from a consumer point of view, that means if I buy WB5 I will not only be buying the upgrade but I’ll be paying for a subscription for a site that-
A. I rarely use the forum. Sorry guys you are often far to clichéish and snide for me to feel comfortable at your forums. Even an innocent newbie question can get short shrift from some of you. And the policing of the forums for civility, patience with non personal friends and tact is not always effective, in fact lately it's been very uncomfortable to even visit the forums. Yes I know some folks here are nice, but, too many are allowed to flame at will or use cutting, rude and elitist remarks at will with no thought to how it will effect future sales/feelings toward the product you claim to support and love.
B. This sites main value for Brad is it offers the public something he doesn’t have to now. First level customer service. Every person who has a skinning or installing problem who gets his question answered here, means that Stardock doesn’t have to pay a CSR to answer email questions about.
C. I get, at best, 3 to 5 useful downloads a year. And as I belong to DeviantArt and quite a few other sites around I usually find the same packages elsewhere.
D. Skinning is a luxury not a necessity. I quit using StyleXp when it got too annoying trying to find clean Spyware free skins and get customer service that made sense and showed someone on the other side gave a rip.
Now the question.
What are you going to do to keep from driving off paying customers like me who don’t buy the whole package and never will? Are you planning to abandon us or is this just a way to raise the price of partial packages since no matter what else you might say the real value point of this site for Stardock is convenient After Sales Service for the public. At this point, a real effort to not alienate people like me and to include us in your future might just save a large percentage of future sales.
Final note to the Community:
There is a good reason I placed A first and B second.
Think about it guys. I was 50/50 when I came to the site and read Brad’s post about needing to make this a paying site. After watching the uncivil smug verbiage on the forum, realizing that the community/self customer service is the only thing that’s being really offered me here that I couldn’t get anywhere else I have to say the forum attitudes may just be the deciding factor to drive me (and maybe a lot of other paying customers) away from Stardock. For most of us, Skins are NOT a necessity. And in the end, fanboys can only go so far. The average guy who doesn't skin, never will, just wants a pretty desktop and who buys the upgrades is who keeps this product financially alive.
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HG_Eliminator
Reply #2 Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:32 AM
Reply #2 Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:32 AM
imo a community helps support each other through help and if need be $...this site needs $ to keep it afloat...
WC isn't asking for cash to get the skins .. it is asking those who use the site, to help support it by buying a sub..i dont think they are asking to much...
on further reflection of my past interaction's, i must admit i have been less that receptive to those who seemed to want to rub peeps the wrong way..for that i appologize .. at times i can tend to have a lack of patience. expecially when i get tired of the fighting...
WC isn't asking for cash to get the skins .. it is asking those who use the site, to help support it by buying a sub..i dont think they are asking to much...
on further reflection of my past interaction's, i must admit i have been less that receptive to those who seemed to want to rub peeps the wrong way..for that i appologize .. at times i can tend to have a lack of patience. expecially when i get tired of the fighting...
Apocalypse_67
Reply #5 Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:33 PM
I think this question has been answered many times but it seems that now day the one thing that Stardock certainly gets from WinCustomize is a huge bill, but more to the point WC needs its member to contribute more and keep the site a float.
After reading the main post, this issue should not affect you at all. You are a current customer therefore any limitation to access WC is waved to you.
You also mentioned your dislike to DesktopX since you find no need to what it does, raising the question of 'Why purchase something you don’t like or need?' The trial version should have prevented you from purchasing the program.
Again you mention that you purchased WB and out of the thousands of skins you use at best 5. It seems to me that you are either a very hard person to impress or you have very little taste for graphic images, regardless of what it is, the trail version of WB should had taken care of that too. Same result applies to the IconPackager where you only use a couple of the thousand of themes provided.
Imagine if you will, purchasing a DVD player only to find that out of the 500,000 movies your local video store carries, you only have interest on 20 of them. I think it will me more of a 'mia culpa' issue than anything else.
The beauty of both SD and WC is that it shows you everything before you decide to purchase or not.
Reply #5 Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:33 PM
| What Stardock gets from Wincustomize? |
I think this question has been answered many times but it seems that now day the one thing that Stardock certainly gets from WinCustomize is a huge bill, but more to the point WC needs its member to contribute more and keep the site a float.
After reading the main post, this issue should not affect you at all. You are a current customer therefore any limitation to access WC is waved to you.
You also mentioned your dislike to DesktopX since you find no need to what it does, raising the question of 'Why purchase something you don’t like or need?' The trial version should have prevented you from purchasing the program.
Again you mention that you purchased WB and out of the thousands of skins you use at best 5. It seems to me that you are either a very hard person to impress or you have very little taste for graphic images, regardless of what it is, the trail version of WB should had taken care of that too. Same result applies to the IconPackager where you only use a couple of the thousand of themes provided.
Imagine if you will, purchasing a DVD player only to find that out of the 500,000 movies your local video store carries, you only have interest on 20 of them. I think it will me more of a 'mia culpa' issue than anything else.
The beauty of both SD and WC is that it shows you everything before you decide to purchase or not.
PurrBall
Reply #6 Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:53 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:53 PM
Remember the old WC?
That subby drive was a HUGE success!
What has happened to WC users?
What do we need to do to get WC back to the nice community it was a year ago?
Alot of the community here is very nice--But the people who arent, well, they post more simply because they want to be mean.
That subby drive was a HUGE success!
What has happened to WC users?
What do we need to do to get WC back to the nice community it was a year ago?
Alot of the community here is very nice--But the people who arent, well, they post more simply because they want to be mean.
Chasbo
Reply #7 Saturday, October 29, 2005 1:59 PM
Reply #7 Saturday, October 29, 2005 1:59 PM
Do ya think that setting a goal of 2000 subs was not thought out very well? I do. Stardock can do whatever they want with this site because they own it but if they ain't careful they are gonna end up shooting themselves in the foot. In the long run they are gonna lose customers instead of gain customers if they make this, how should I say it, elitist. Speaking for myself, I feel I have spent enough on Stardock software to help support the company. I might add that even when the software had qlitches (IP3) I was patient and waited until they worked out the problems even though I couldn't use it for almost two months. What am I trying to say? I feel that Stardock can and should find a middle of the road. What that is I can't say. Maybe leaving the site as it is for people who can't or don't want to subscribe but making a part of it for people who do. What they need to do is make the subscribers only section really special so that people will want to subscribe. It's Oct 29th and they didn't even get half of their goal. That should tell them something. 
Beta12345
Reply #8 Saturday, October 29, 2005 2:28 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, October 29, 2005 2:28 PM
Well, as Butch123 is unable to post here he had asked me if he sent me a note if I would be willing to post it here, so why not. So, this is from Butch123....
Hi All, you know I as well have been following these threads, and reading all the messages very carefully as well as watching the subscription drive. As I have been reading I have noticed there seems to be for some reason that people feel that this is not a community and that the people here to put it plain are just snobs ! Well, for those of you who know me, I havent been around that long, only a little over a year, but you know I cant agree with that. And even with all the probelsm I have had with WC I would be the first to say that this is one of the most community orientated sites on the net. Maybe for those of you who dont feel that you fit in, it might be that you are just not giving it a chance, or trying to get to know the other people. Because they are a really fine bunch, and well worth taking the time to get to know. Now as for the subscription drive, I do realize that for certain people that 20.00 is a lot of money, especially for the younger, or people on a very tight budget, but I have also seen some of the members here have gotten together and are trying to help out by buying subscription for people in different ways, which I really applaude them for. But you know, I do have to agree with Brad, it takes a lot of money to run a site of this size and maybe when you start counting the sixty dollars for the OD subscription and 20.00 for the site, you might think its a lot. But, if you look at what you get for your money and weight the good versus the bad, you come out way ahead ! You know not that I believe in pay sites, becasue I dont, but a pay site and a subscription drive here at WC is two different things. From what I understand all that Brad is asking is for everybody to pitch in a little bit and I dont think I can blame him, as I previosuly said it is very expensive. If you look at it, 20.00 gets a renewal for you for 2 years which works out to 10.00 a year...you know for 20.00 I cant even got out with my wife for supper ! And these days I cant even put gas in my car, or not much...so if you break it down for 10.00 a year on a renewal you have unlimited download, you access to a site if you want to use it or not, you have all the skins that you oculd ever use and more and you have the world's best skinners right at your fingertips to help anytime you need it for whatever purpose. So come on guys, 20.00 is not that much...lets support the community and keep WC going !
Hi All, you know I as well have been following these threads, and reading all the messages very carefully as well as watching the subscription drive. As I have been reading I have noticed there seems to be for some reason that people feel that this is not a community and that the people here to put it plain are just snobs ! Well, for those of you who know me, I havent been around that long, only a little over a year, but you know I cant agree with that. And even with all the probelsm I have had with WC I would be the first to say that this is one of the most community orientated sites on the net. Maybe for those of you who dont feel that you fit in, it might be that you are just not giving it a chance, or trying to get to know the other people. Because they are a really fine bunch, and well worth taking the time to get to know. Now as for the subscription drive, I do realize that for certain people that 20.00 is a lot of money, especially for the younger, or people on a very tight budget, but I have also seen some of the members here have gotten together and are trying to help out by buying subscription for people in different ways, which I really applaude them for. But you know, I do have to agree with Brad, it takes a lot of money to run a site of this size and maybe when you start counting the sixty dollars for the OD subscription and 20.00 for the site, you might think its a lot. But, if you look at what you get for your money and weight the good versus the bad, you come out way ahead ! You know not that I believe in pay sites, becasue I dont, but a pay site and a subscription drive here at WC is two different things. From what I understand all that Brad is asking is for everybody to pitch in a little bit and I dont think I can blame him, as I previosuly said it is very expensive. If you look at it, 20.00 gets a renewal for you for 2 years which works out to 10.00 a year...you know for 20.00 I cant even got out with my wife for supper ! And these days I cant even put gas in my car, or not much...so if you break it down for 10.00 a year on a renewal you have unlimited download, you access to a site if you want to use it or not, you have all the skins that you oculd ever use and more and you have the world's best skinners right at your fingertips to help anytime you need it for whatever purpose. So come on guys, 20.00 is not that much...lets support the community and keep WC going !
dave86
Reply #9 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:06 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:06 PM
Did the price go up on the OD subscription? I have seen several posts citing the $60 for OD...I thought it was $50...
Apocalypse_67
Reply #10 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:36 PM
Yeah, it tells them that a couple million visitors have no real intentions of helping with the cost of the site or contributing with the community.
It really doesn’t take a lot to decide if you want to subscribe to the site or purchase a SD product (I was impressed and hooked with the programs the very first day I downloaded the demos)
This is not rocket science; anyone should be able to tell if they like the product within the first couple of hours of use. If you like them enough to make a purchase, BOOM!!.... you are provided with unlimited downloads from WC. If you like WC as a site as much as a community and choose to help out by subscribing, you are blessed with the same privileges (and then some) But that is not the problem here, the problem is those that visit/pass thru, run up the site's bill downloading until they reach their limit and then leave.
Now, this will be unharmful if there were 50 or 100 people doing it, but when you have a couple of million heads doing it on a monthly basis, then the problem increments extensible.
Reply #10 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:36 PM
| It's Oct 29th and they didn't even get half of their goal. That should tell them something. |
Yeah, it tells them that a couple million visitors have no real intentions of helping with the cost of the site or contributing with the community.
It really doesn’t take a lot to decide if you want to subscribe to the site or purchase a SD product (I was impressed and hooked with the programs the very first day I downloaded the demos)
This is not rocket science; anyone should be able to tell if they like the product within the first couple of hours of use. If you like them enough to make a purchase, BOOM!!.... you are provided with unlimited downloads from WC. If you like WC as a site as much as a community and choose to help out by subscribing, you are blessed with the same privileges (and then some) But that is not the problem here, the problem is those that visit/pass thru, run up the site's bill downloading until they reach their limit and then leave.
Now, this will be unharmful if there were 50 or 100 people doing it, but when you have a couple of million heads doing it on a monthly basis, then the problem increments extensible.
Apocalypse_67
Reply #11 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:40 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:40 PM
dave86, the price of OD remains $49.95
The $60.00 version I believe is the DX Pro version.
The $60.00 version I believe is the DX Pro version.
BX
Reply #12 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:54 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:54 PM
Well said Butch and AP ... The problem is created by those freeloders ... plus we can't make EVERY-ONE happy ... !!!!
Chasbo
Reply #13 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:12 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:12 PM
I can only speak for myself and I have purchased Stardock software, to the tune of about 75 bucks altogether. Yes, I should have just bought OD but I wanted to test each program first so that's how I did it. Why shouldn't I be able to have access to the site as it is now? I've paid. I'll continue to update my Stardock programs correctly but I think that they have bitten off more than they can chew. There are many times the site bogs down and you can't even go to the next page. How do I know that this won't happen if I subscribe? I keep hearing about supporting the community but what those that mean? Wincustomize getting my 20 bucks and I can't turn the page? Purchasing IP3 in at he end of June and not getting it to work until the start September? Don't use words in the wrong way. Don't try to make people feel guilty about "The Community", that is playing with people's minds. If I paid for the software than I should have access to the site.
END OF STORY!
END OF STORY!
Apocalypse_67
Reply #14 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:36 PM
As long as you are a Stardock costumer you'll have access to the site entirely with out any form of restriction.
You need not to worry.
The limitations will be only for users that have not purchase anything from Stardock and/or have not purchase a subscription or contributed to the WC site.
Reply #14 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:36 PM
| Why shouldn't I be able to have access to the site as it is now? |
As long as you are a Stardock costumer you'll have access to the site entirely with out any form of restriction.
You need not to worry.
The limitations will be only for users that have not purchase anything from Stardock and/or have not purchase a subscription or contributed to the WC site.
Jafo
Reply #15 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:47 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:47 PM
There's a quaint old comic saying....
"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it depends on what you put into it."
If someone's sum-total 'benefit' from Wincustomize.com is maybe 5 skins in a year then the current existing 'free download limit' is perfect for him.
If someone spends 24/7 on the site....dl'ing oodles of content, interacting on the Forums, being an active participant to a high degree then he/she will likely see the 'value' of that and be willing to contribute financially....most do, too.
Problem is....between these 2 'extremes' is where the bulk of the problem lies..... those who take more than they 'contribute'.....it's that level of 'user' that warrants closer scrutiny....for a solution.
Now then there's this 'elitism' comment, attributed to the concept or perception of a discriminatory 'class' between payers and non-payers.
Well, yes, I guess it IS elitism......just as you get with public transportation. The 'elite' pay and can take the ride....the non-payer has to walk. Heaven help the non-payer when he realises he might just have to pay for shoe-leather instead because he refuses to buy a ticket...
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #16 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:57 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:57 PM
If you take your salary / hourly rate where you work, I would venture to say that the "anti subscribers" have already spent the $20 in labor costs arguing their cause.
Chasbo
Reply #17 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:07 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:07 PM
Let me clarify. I was worried that even though I have purchased Stardock software I wouldn't have access to the site. I pay my way so therefore I feel I should have access. The elitism comment I made is probably a result of paranoia. Fearing that the site would close up unless you subscribe. I'm not down with that. Sorry if I have not presented my view properly.
There are problems with the site. It bogs down. That is the main problem. That's got to be fixed. If people are gonna pluck down 20 bucks then they shouldn't have to wait 2 min for a page to turn. If you can tell me that by subscribing these problems will vanish then I'll subscribe. If you can't guarantee that then what's the point?
As long as I pay I have a say.
There are problems with the site. It bogs down. That is the main problem. That's got to be fixed. If people are gonna pluck down 20 bucks then they shouldn't have to wait 2 min for a page to turn. If you can tell me that by subscribing these problems will vanish then I'll subscribe. If you can't guarantee that then what's the point?
As long as I pay I have a say.
HG_Eliminator
Reply #18 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:14 PM
when the site changes happen, access by non subscribers will be changed. i imagine driving many away .... there fore dropping the amount of traffic, which will speed up the site because there wont be as many folks hoggin the few servers WC has .......those who stay and subscribe will help WC be able to afford stuff like more bandwith and faster servers...which inturn will also speed up the site
either way it should get faster ...
Reply #18 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:14 PM
| There are problems with the site. It bogs down. That is the main problem. That's got to be fixed. If people are gonna pluck down 20 bucks then they shouldn't have to wait 2 min for a page to turn. If you can tell me that by subscribing these problems will vanish then I'll subscribe. If you can't guarantee that then what's the point |
when the site changes happen, access by non subscribers will be changed. i imagine driving many away .... there fore dropping the amount of traffic, which will speed up the site because there wont be as many folks hoggin the few servers WC has .......those who stay and subscribe will help WC be able to afford stuff like more bandwith and faster servers...which inturn will also speed up the site
either way it should get faster ...
HG_Eliminator
Reply #19 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:30 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:30 PM
i bought stardock apps years ago and have been a dedicated subscriber to SD .. the last WC sub Drive i bought a WC sub as well...i figured it was worth it to support a site that skinners could use to distribute their works .. even tho i was entitled to full SD customer acess... not trying to brag.... just saying "hey why not support these guys? they work hard to skin as well as build a site for us to enjoy them"....
Lantec
Reply #20 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:40 PM
TheD2JBUG, I guess I'm not smart enough to see what's so obvious could you give me some examples of the obvious evidence of the lack of community here that you speak of.
Reply #20 Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:40 PM
| t's obviously not enough of a community to support aside from people playing charity when there's a sub drive. |
TheD2JBUG, I guess I'm not smart enough to see what's so obvious could you give me some examples of the obvious evidence of the lack of community here that you speak of.
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Reply #1 Saturday, October 29, 2005 11:25 AM
And I'm tired of the drama queeening. Brad , if your reading this, just do something. I don't care what. But be done with it.