Goodbye to Jark?
Major upheaval on DeviantArt!
Friday, July 29, 2005 by CerebroJD | Discussion: WinCustomize News
There is much speculation as to exactly what has occurred at DeviantArt in the last day or two.
No one seems to be able to talk about it very much, but its clear that there has been a shift in who exactly runs what on DeviantArt. Jark, the co-founder of DA, appears to have been demoted and/or fired from that position. There are many indications of this, the foremost being his member symbol prefix, no longer the $ of the past. Could this be happening to such a honest and driven individual? Jark has given so much to the community of both DeviantArt and many other art communities around the internet.
Several critical policies on DeviantArt were broken in this restructure, including the near-sacred rule of never removing comments. This freedom of speach and action formed one of the core foundations of DeviantArt: The ability to speak up in all situations and have your opinions heard. Deviations were removed, comments edited, and people banned in order to keep something quiet. No rock-solid details are available, but Jark himself seems supportive of the measures taken by fans to lend their shoulders to his cause.
Updating as info and sources are found.
Onestar's DeviantArt page. Onestar proposes a one-day hiatus on the uploading of all files to DA.
Jark's DeviantArt page. Some interesting reading here, but not much detail. Check his deviations.
Deviation/article by leliathomas. Speculation and theories and many facts pertaining to the event.
Jark's other page, off of DeviantArt. Snoop around... some VERY interesting stuff there.
Bookdiva's personal crusade! She's adding everyone who supports Jark to a massive list in her DA Journal.
Important! Actual semi-official statement from higher-ups. Jark responds too! (Caution, huge image file)
No one seems to be able to talk about it very much, but its clear that there has been a shift in who exactly runs what on DeviantArt. Jark, the co-founder of DA, appears to have been demoted and/or fired from that position. There are many indications of this, the foremost being his member symbol prefix, no longer the $ of the past. Could this be happening to such a honest and driven individual? Jark has given so much to the community of both DeviantArt and many other art communities around the internet.
Several critical policies on DeviantArt were broken in this restructure, including the near-sacred rule of never removing comments. This freedom of speach and action formed one of the core foundations of DeviantArt: The ability to speak up in all situations and have your opinions heard. Deviations were removed, comments edited, and people banned in order to keep something quiet. No rock-solid details are available, but Jark himself seems supportive of the measures taken by fans to lend their shoulders to his cause.
Updating as info and sources are found.
Onestar's DeviantArt page. Onestar proposes a one-day hiatus on the uploading of all files to DA.
Jark's DeviantArt page. Some interesting reading here, but not much detail. Check his deviations.
Deviation/article by leliathomas. Speculation and theories and many facts pertaining to the event.
Jark's other page, off of DeviantArt. Snoop around... some VERY interesting stuff there.
Bookdiva's personal crusade! She's adding everyone who supports Jark to a massive list in her DA Journal.
Important! Actual semi-official statement from higher-ups. Jark responds too! (Caution, huge image file)
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Jafo
Reply #22 Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:09 PM
Reply #22 Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:09 PM
For me it was the people like jark, Matteo and Attila .... that made it a 'good place to be'.
I'm sure the general feeling over there is "where are we going, and why are we in this hand-basket?" ....
Doreen
Reply #23 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:01 PM
Reply #23 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:01 PM
Yeah what treetog said: DA "is" Jark...
Doreen waves to treetog and Jafo the macro)
very sad and almost unbelievable too, seems like an April's fools joke or something...
Doreen waves to treetog and Jafo the macro)
very sad and almost unbelievable too, seems like an April's fools joke or something...
KoL_
Reply #24 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:30 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:30 PM
Like Jafo said, people like Jark, Matteo, Attila and JasonVelocit made dA a great place.
I support jark
I support jark
BoXXi
Reply #25 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:52 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, July 30, 2005 10:52 PM
I won't upload there any more if Jark goes....... I never liked that Liquisoft character from the first time I encountered him.
Drop125
Reply #26 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:05 AM
Reply #26 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:05 AM
Being a paying member at devart and here on wincustomize, Im sorry to say to some of the none belivers But I am with Jark all the way..Admin Jafo is right there is something wrong and I for one just paid my fees at da 3 days ago to extend my subscription..Now I am afraid to say anything over there for fear of being banned forever...I now fear the place I love to call home....and I feel I have to watch every word I type very closely so as not to get axed...and I have been there as long as some of the newer admins and then some...
www.drop125.deviantart.com
www.drop125.deviantart.com
joeKnowledge
Reply #27 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:49 AM
Reply #27 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:49 AM
... I never even heard of Liquisoft until about a year ago but didn't think anything of it... seemed like one of those companies you see hear and a few years from now there are off the web.
At any rate, this is some real drama. I hope this means Jark will have some more free time to make stuff and be on Wincusto and on Modblog. (I wonder if this is the reason why Mike Pacific of Modblog left the job there soon after being hired???)
At any rate, I think I better get all my contacts off of there just in case someone pulls a 'Devaint Art is now closed' baby tantrum to show who is boss. I met a lot of cool people on there.
Breedman, nuvem, minix, artgerm, fealasy, kurot and others... frezejeans and more.
I better get my list before they go away...
At any rate, this is some real drama. I hope this means Jark will have some more free time to make stuff and be on Wincusto and on Modblog. (I wonder if this is the reason why Mike Pacific of Modblog left the job there soon after being hired???)
At any rate, I think I better get all my contacts off of there just in case someone pulls a 'Devaint Art is now closed' baby tantrum to show who is boss. I met a lot of cool people on there.
Breedman, nuvem, minix, artgerm, fealasy, kurot and others... frezejeans and more.
I better get my list before they go away...
joeKnowledge
Reply #29 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:53 AM
Reply #29 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:53 AM
... sorry you feel that way Drop. I don't think, especially a paying member 2 times over, should worry about what they are typing unless it is against the TOS.
Being carful is fine, but afraid should mean asking for a refund and getting your info off of their servers as soon as possible.
Being carful is fine, but afraid should mean asking for a refund and getting your info off of their servers as soon as possible.
joeKnowledge
Reply #30 Sunday, July 31, 2005 4:55 AM
Reply #30 Sunday, July 31, 2005 4:55 AM
I also wanted to say this as I posted on Spyed DA site:
I have read some of the drama notes and looked briefly at some of the images of thread that were... shall we say edited... and I say it still is a wait and see. I am sure everyone has thier opinions (mine would be what could possibly be the reasoning for Jark being let go) but I am left to think in business terms since Deviant Art is just that; a business, so there might be something 'up the sleave' sort of speak on this issue (promotional stunt maybe???).
For many people, art and money (another example would be skinning and money) don't mix well so I am not surprised that many a person feelings toward DA has faultered as it has grown. Opinions might be very strong on the subject of DA's direction and size and operability (lets face it, other art and skin sites have gone and disapeared because of financing basically) as well as its direction and maybe there is something more to Jark being demoted (but probably is still part owner/operater).
Long story short, it might not be as hostile as it looks. Time will tell.
What is with all this Jark business???
*tries to break the ice*
Anyway, one thing I know about business is that sometimes you can't say things and sometimes you can. After reading some of the things Devinat Art is into and invested in, sometimes you can't speak on specific topics, no matter how it may SEEM clear or non-involved.
In the spirit of community and being civil, for those who are reading this and spamming Spyed comment box, just keep in mind that there can be more to something then meets the eye.
DA birthday is coming up, so even with the changes, lets see what happens next.
I have read some of the drama notes and looked briefly at some of the images of thread that were... shall we say edited... and I say it still is a wait and see. I am sure everyone has thier opinions (mine would be what could possibly be the reasoning for Jark being let go) but I am left to think in business terms since Deviant Art is just that; a business, so there might be something 'up the sleave' sort of speak on this issue (promotional stunt maybe???).
For many people, art and money (another example would be skinning and money) don't mix well so I am not surprised that many a person feelings toward DA has faultered as it has grown. Opinions might be very strong on the subject of DA's direction and size and operability (lets face it, other art and skin sites have gone and disapeared because of financing basically) as well as its direction and maybe there is something more to Jark being demoted (but probably is still part owner/operater).
Long story short, it might not be as hostile as it looks. Time will tell.
joeKnowledge
Reply #31 Sunday, July 31, 2005 4:58 AM
Reply #31 Sunday, July 31, 2005 4:58 AM
http://bookdiva.deviantart.com/
???
http://bookdiva.deviantart.com/journal/6075755/
hmmmm...
???
http://bookdiva.deviantart.com/journal/6075755/
hmmmm...
teddybearcholla
Reply #32 Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:03 AM
Reply #32 Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:03 AM
This is not the first time where a Corporation has ousted its' founder/s for whatever reasons...I believe usually $. Everyone has supplied links I am adding one more...http://keeps.deviantart.com/journal/6074588/
like Developer joeKnowledge said, we'll have to wait and see what plays out.
Of course, what if all the members there came over to WC with their skins, images, etc. now that one can have them on their own site here, without being in the libraries... not counting the ones already here...
like Developer joeKnowledge said, we'll have to wait and see what plays out.
Of course, what if all the members there came over to WC with their skins, images, etc. now that one can have them on their own site here, without being in the libraries... not counting the ones already here...
Sleeping Dragon
Reply #33 Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:21 AM
Reply #33 Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:21 AM
I like DA. I'll sit back and see what happens for a bit. I don't know Jark, but something that I have learned in life is that people come and people go, and then sometimes you see them again and sometimes you don't. I don't of course know Jark, but he sounds like a hell of a guy and I always hate to see someone railroaded. Hopefully he is met here with open arms if he is looking for employment at WC, or maybe he will start up a new site better than DA. I don't know you, Jark, but wish you the best. What comes around goes around, and those that treated you unfairly will reap their just rewards either sooner or later. 
qrush
Reply #34 Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:20 AM
Reply #34 Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:20 AM
I'll have to agree with Sleeping Dragon's viewpoint. I of course support Jark since it seems right now that a giant conspiracy/coup threw him out of his position so the company could make more money. A lot of people are asking...what now? Most are saying BOYCOTT, others are yelling BRING BACK THE COMMUNITY, and most members have posted at least something so they can contribute to the cause. The community seems to be united under Jark's banner, so they really need to act on that. The August 7th movement is a great idea. I was around for DA's last birthday, when the new site was released. It was a big event then, and although there were mixed opinions about it everyone just hunkered down and prepared themselves to get used to it.
Well folks, on this August 7th, DA is going to be a very different place that it has been before. The community plans to rise up and act out against the administration, and I just hope that their response is unified. I hope that the deviation counter does not move at ALL that day. I hope the community can find itself on the 7th and teach Spyed and the new regime what the site is REALLY about.
Now there are still two more issues. First, the most obvious, is the explanation. I have a feeling that this will come on the 7th, as well, along with Spyed's new "Scaling the Deviants" plan, his program that will totally change how the community is supposed to work. I don't know if this is good or bad yet, but I think it was made solely for the purpose of drawing out those who are popular so they can make prints and therefore gain money for the corporation. If this is true, sayonara DA. I'll remove my little stash of deviations and wave goodbye at that point.
Secondly, I feel that Jark needs to do a little bit of unification. He's been commenting on a few plans for the 7th but I feel that he needs to endorse one (most likely the boycott one) just so everyone is on the same page for that day. This might be seen as retailation and might violate what he wants to do with the situation (Which I'm guessing is let the community take over). I feel that it would be his proper return as a leader.
DA rightfully belongs to Jark...on the 7th, if you're a member, please help to prove that he should still be an integral part of it.
Well folks, on this August 7th, DA is going to be a very different place that it has been before. The community plans to rise up and act out against the administration, and I just hope that their response is unified. I hope that the deviation counter does not move at ALL that day. I hope the community can find itself on the 7th and teach Spyed and the new regime what the site is REALLY about.
Now there are still two more issues. First, the most obvious, is the explanation. I have a feeling that this will come on the 7th, as well, along with Spyed's new "Scaling the Deviants" plan, his program that will totally change how the community is supposed to work. I don't know if this is good or bad yet, but I think it was made solely for the purpose of drawing out those who are popular so they can make prints and therefore gain money for the corporation. If this is true, sayonara DA. I'll remove my little stash of deviations and wave goodbye at that point.
Secondly, I feel that Jark needs to do a little bit of unification. He's been commenting on a few plans for the 7th but I feel that he needs to endorse one (most likely the boycott one) just so everyone is on the same page for that day. This might be seen as retailation and might violate what he wants to do with the situation (Which I'm guessing is let the community take over). I feel that it would be his proper return as a leader.
DA rightfully belongs to Jark...on the 7th, if you're a member, please help to prove that he should still be an integral part of it.
TasT
Reply #35 Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:10 AM
quite right, I worked with jark on a deviant art community skin pack soon after Skinz.org went away and in my eyes DA is the essence of their elder, Jark.
Reply #35 Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:10 AM
| To me, Deviant art IS Jark! Period |
quite right, I worked with jark on a deviant art community skin pack soon after Skinz.org went away and in my eyes DA is the essence of their elder, Jark.
gigglebit
Reply #36 Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:52 PM
Reply #36 Sunday, July 31, 2005 1:52 PM
well devart is too gawdy of a site though. and they have a wierd attitude about things. and you have to pay for alot of the features. and at dmuaic.com people would flame all the time there. I hope those two seperate or were sperated havent been a regular user of the site in 2 years since I got frustrated at a couple users there what they said about longhorn and server 2003. and also they lied about cisco and thier security problems said they don't have any which is total BS. cisco has more security problems than any other router out there. heck the entire IOS was leaked. and cisco is shady about it and telling conferece runners to "keep thier mouth shut" about it. well, how are we supposed to know how to fix our networks if cisco don't tell us how the attacks are implemented so we cna further fix them, thier patch company also said they wernt gonna provide a patch for it!
so thats why I left that network. I never registered and participated there, but i used to think it was an excellent source for downloads and chat but since people have that kinda attitude, then no.
and also what I didn't like was I got treated wrongly on dmusic. they appeared to not like women there much and they made fun of me for not liking linux! I hate linux, always will same for macs too. I am an all out pc user! How cna someone like to go though hell using linux, havting to take half an hour to do a simple task that you cna do in windows in 5 minutes! shame on them!
so thats why I left that network. I never registered and participated there, but i used to think it was an excellent source for downloads and chat but since people have that kinda attitude, then no.
and also what I didn't like was I got treated wrongly on dmusic. they appeared to not like women there much and they made fun of me for not liking linux! I hate linux, always will same for macs too. I am an all out pc user! How cna someone like to go though hell using linux, havting to take half an hour to do a simple task that you cna do in windows in 5 minutes! shame on them!
bakerstreet
Reply #38 Sunday, July 31, 2005 2:21 PM
Reply #38 Sunday, July 31, 2005 2:21 PM
I was in #skinnerz the night DevArt went live and jark let us know. I never participated much there, since it arrived about the time I was getting bored with the whole online art thing. If this doesn't work itself out it will be sad, but a sadly commonplace event online. Business is pretty machiavellian. That doesn't make it morally right, it just means that morality doesn't have much to do with it.
I differed with Jark... a lot, but it wouldn't be the same place without him. He's put a lot of time and effort into it, and this isn't how he should go, even if he should go. I don't think there's much we can find out that would validate the kind of "night of the long knives" thing it appears to be.
In the end it isn't my site, and I can't tell them how to do things, but I think for the sake of business, it could have been done in a way that wasn't so provocative to great many people who are now really upset about losing Jark as an admin.
I differed with Jark... a lot, but it wouldn't be the same place without him. He's put a lot of time and effort into it, and this isn't how he should go, even if he should go. I don't think there's much we can find out that would validate the kind of "night of the long knives" thing it appears to be.
In the end it isn't my site, and I can't tell them how to do things, but I think for the sake of business, it could have been done in a way that wasn't so provocative to great many people who are now really upset about losing Jark as an admin.
Mordalo
Reply #39 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:12 PM
Reply #39 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:12 PM
Well, since I do have an account here, I'll offer my two cents...
First, the primary focus of my request was to focus on the COMMUNITY over at DA. That's what has always been a focus for me over there. I've made friends, and formed relationships with a lot of people over there. That's one thing I feel DA has lost.
As for "not submitting anything", yeah, I did suggest that. Moreover (and what might have been lost in this) was to take the day and visit another deviant's page, and say hello. Or visit an existing deviation...at last count, there were over 14 MILLION...and comment on it. Things like that will (hopefully) help foster the spirit of community.
Jark is the heart and soul of that community. Without Jark, DA is a colder place. All I wanted to do is show that DA is more than just a corporate place...it's a community, and it's about family.
First, the primary focus of my request was to focus on the COMMUNITY over at DA. That's what has always been a focus for me over there. I've made friends, and formed relationships with a lot of people over there. That's one thing I feel DA has lost.
As for "not submitting anything", yeah, I did suggest that. Moreover (and what might have been lost in this) was to take the day and visit another deviant's page, and say hello. Or visit an existing deviation...at last count, there were over 14 MILLION...and comment on it. Things like that will (hopefully) help foster the spirit of community.
Jark is the heart and soul of that community. Without Jark, DA is a colder place. All I wanted to do is show that DA is more than just a corporate place...it's a community, and it's about family.
Mordalo
Reply #40 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:16 PM
Reply #40 Sunday, July 31, 2005 3:16 PM
For the record, Bookdiva is Scott's Mom.
She's also one of the most vocal supporters of DA there is.
Some of the deleted comments in question were from her journals...
She's also one of the most vocal supporters of DA there is.
Some of the deleted comments in question were from her journals...
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Reply #21 Saturday, July 30, 2005 8:55 PM
I met Scott one week before Deviant art openned, I just registered there because of him, if Jark goes out of Deviant art for any reason I will go too.
To me, Deviant art IS Jark! Period