Does Wincustomize need a make over?
Tuesday, July 19, 2005 by Bash2cool | Discussion: OS Customization
So should it have a new make-over? please place comments on what you think.
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Reply #42 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:59 PM
| [fervc] I think they need to be more concerned about the technical issue plauging the site, before even worrying about what the site looks like. |
Lets see..signed in this am..uploaded screen shot..waited 10 minutes or more..got error message " File contains no data " Exited site, opened site again..filled out all info for 2 nd time..hit submit..waited longer this time ..got " Error, timed out " exited site, re-entered, filled out info for 3rd time..hit submit..watch my pretty cursor hypnotize me for a long time.....finally. Paydirt.
Total time to upload screenshot..40 minutes. Do I care what the site looks like ?
Hell no.
Reply #43 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:59 PM
| there are no excuses for the way you and some of your fellow admin treat the people here |
Yes, I must apologise to everyone for giving up my free time for them, for being here now when I should have been in bed two hours ago, for spending all of Sunday moderating when I could have been out in the sunshine, and for helping all those folks who I could have left to sort things out for themselves.
Fortunately most people here don't think like you, it is they whom I give my time for willingly. Still, in every crowd there will always be one ungrateful (comment removed by admin)... 
Reply #44 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:11 PM
| (comment removed by admin)... |
Wasn't me....
I was busy approving Logons.....funny, that.....
Reply #46 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:32 PM
Reply #47 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:10 PM
| Is this the time yet for the "If you don't like it, go start your own site" comeback yet? That's just turning things around to take the focus off of the site problems here. |
No, I'm pretty much just ignoring you at this point.
Reply #48 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:11 PM
| May I point out that if the website separated the look into a CSS file and left the HTML semantic by using HTML 4.01 strict or XHTML instead of the current tagsoup it would save some bandwidth. As it is currently, this webstie rely heavily on tables, something that quickly adds excess code. Remember how much traffic this site attracts, it quickly adds up. If the look of the site where put into a CSS file it'd not only be less content in the HTML file, but the CSS file would in most cases be cached the first time a user visit the site. Resulting in even less bandwidth usage. I'd think that's be in the interest of both the owners and the users. And then when the appearance is separeted from the content it'd be esier to do makeovers. |
As I mentioned previously, our problem isn't bandwidth. It's database and coding. The site actually doesn't use that much bandwidth because evething is compressed when sent out via a third party plugin we use.
Reply #49 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:23 PM
Here are the facts on the ground:
1) Without VOLUNTEERS like Fuzzy Logic and Jafo, this site would cease to exist. WinCustomize's #1 problem is that it lacks human expertise on many areas because it woudl cost too much to employ them. WinCustomize could never even begin to afford Fuzzy and Jafo and the others for their time. So treat them with respect.
2) WC's issue isn't bandwidth.
3)The issue is that when you have a site that gets 3+ million users, all kinds of tiny little database choices and scripting choices that are fine on a smaller site start to fall apart. I can assure you, if SkinBase.org and Skinz.org or Customize.org got even a fraction of the traffic this site gets they would run into the same trouble.
4) deviantART went through the same thing. But, for whatever reason, they are able to get vastly more subscribers which in turn allowed them to hire an entire team of full-time salaried web developers, database administrators, etc. For example, these problems people are running into (including US) we have had to look and look and look to try to find out what the problem is.
5) The specific cause of the problems is that *something* is locking the articles database across our servers. In turn, requests to it pile up and eventually the database starts to go down but not before everything slows to a crawl.
6) Hopefully you've noticed that since 1pm EST the site has been pretty stable.
7) People need to seperate WinCustomize from Stardock. Stardock's position has been consistent, it doesn't need WinCustomize. It could happilly just send people over to deviantART for skins and themes. WC has to sink or swim on its own. Stardock pays the lion's share of the bills.
8) We are working on it. I did very little else this weekend but to try to look into this myself and I'm no database admin or web developer. We are giving it serious attention. These sites are very complicated and what works with 50 people on or 500 people on falls apart when there's 5000 people on sometimes.
9) We would love to have volunteers who can help us with some of these issues. So the CSS template offer, I'll happily accept that help as soon as we get the site working reliably as-is.
Reply #50 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:11 PM
So should it have a new make-over? please place comments on what you think.
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WOW!!! i think thats how this thread started.....i love this site a whole lot i think things are very easy to find....and most people are friendly enough to ask question or give answers.
But..... most of this thread has been people shooting off there mouths about one another and other silly CRAP!!!the only thing that would make me stop comin here wouldnt be the "sites look"
it would be how people act towards each other here...
grow up....or stay in kindergarden and take it to the sandbox
I HEART WINCUSTOMIZE
cityboy
Reply #51 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:20 PM
| it's been i think three years since Wincustomize changed its website look so should it change it's look now? |
| WOW!!! i think thats how this thread started |
Yes, but it was erroneous....the 'new' site look dates to the beginning of 2005, and it ain't 2008 quite yet....
Reply #52 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:58 PM
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:57 AM
It was $20!
Try going to one movie with your significant other, or out to dinner for less! For my twenty dollars I get a whole year of unlimited (yes, even with the problems) access to an amazing world of creativity and community.
It is clear that the people (paid and unpaid) who administer this site are doing their best to handle the problems that come up, and I for one applaud your efforts. And, I appreciate the opportunity to experience and participate here.
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:22 AM
I was too busy dealing with trying to stay logged in and turning pages.
Money will always be the basis for any business to run smoothly.I agree that more effort should be put into increasing Subscriptions. But in your effort to bring in new subscribers..if you lose just as many "old" ones its a vicious circle.
Just a small observation:
#50 by dj_cityboy
"
But..... most of this thread has been people shooting off there mouths about one another and other silly CRAP!!!the only thing that would make me stop comin here wouldnt be the "sites look"
it would be how people act towards each other here...
grow up....or stay in kindergarden and take it to the sandbox
I HEART WINCUSTOMIZE"
dj_cityboy
UserID: 809828
Member Since: 1/3/2004
Last Visited: 7/19/2005 9:42:10 PM
Access Class: Citizen (1)
User Level: Visitor (2)
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#52 by Emily
Tue, July 19, 2005 10:58 PM
"
I think Boss is striving to reach new levels of antagonism. I tuned him out early on. There is a fine line between constructive criticism and abuse. "
Emily:
UserID: 1925
Member Since: 5/9/2001
Last Visited: 7/19/2005 10:51:00 PM
Access Class: Apprentice (2)
User Level: Visitor (2)
*****************************
Perhaps maybe if more of you would put out $20 for a WC subscription..then we wouldnt need any further site issue discussions.
Reply #55 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:55 AM
Indeed. A WinCustomize subscription goes to help the site directly. The more subscribers we have, the more money WinCustomize has to spend on making this a better place. A site this size doesn't run on fresh air, bills have to be paid.
If you want to help WinCustomize, subscribe now. Considering what you get in return, $20 is a bargain
Reply #56 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:14 AM
I am very happy with Wincustomize and Stardock products in general. However, I do feel their marketing is poor, and they could attract more customers.
I agree with the other posters that more subcription drives, contests, and promotions are necessary. I for one, can volunteer for whatever you need. Just ask.
Reply #57 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:07 AM
Whilst the skins, forums and interaction with others make it a great place to visit, patience and understanding goes a long way towards enjoying the experience here, also. Losing ones patience and temper resolves nothing...nor does bitching and slanging off at WC and those who endeavour to keep it running....doing so gives others reason the view one less and less favorably. If the standard of the site is lowered, it's not through newbie skins or the like, but with impatient, aggressive and obnoxious behaviour. Furthermore, it's less likely to attract subscriptions from old and new visitors, when the tone is often less than pleasant
I was always told that if I had nothing nice or constructive to say, it was better to say nothing at all....and that applies here. Flaming skinners is frowned upon, so as not to discourage them from uploading and sharing their works....same with the site....when enough flaming is more than enough, it just won't be there for the lack of gratitude and respect. Besides. nobody's arm is twisted to come here....so for those who find WC so darned bad, why persist with something you've deemed so annoying?
I'm not alone in my praise and gratitude for WC and each and every person who endeavours to provide a great place to visit, so hey guys.....
Reply #58 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:18 AM
Maybe a bit of rouge and lipstick on some of the emoticons to better represent our female members:
Reply #59 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:20 AM
| 5) The specific cause of the problems is that *something* is locking the articles database across our servers. In turn, requests to it pile up and eventually the database starts to go down but not before everything slows to a crawl. |
Have you considered using well established and mature 3rd party forum software, rather than (I think) your own proprietary sotftware? Or wouldn't that help?
Reply #60 Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:25 AM
| Have you considered using well established and mature 3rd party forum software, rather than (I think) your own proprietary sotftware? Or wouldn't that help? |
It's hard to say. That third party forum software would still need to access the database and until we find out what is locking the database, odds are the same thing would happen. Third-party forum systems are just a different set of scripts. Our issue is that there's probably some stored procedure or some job in the database that's tying everything up.
I think we are on the road to narrowing it down - has the site not been running pretty flawlessly for around the past day?
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Reply #41 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:52 PM