Playing hardball with Internet griefers

Tips for community owners for dealing with net thugs

Saturday, May 7, 2005 by Draginol | Discussion: Living in Cyberspace

Every once in awhile you'll hear about a beloved website whose host has taken it down out of frustration with having to deal with Internet thugs. Internet thugs are, thankfully, not very common, but there are enough out there that they can wreck the experience in trying to admin a website.

So what is an Internet thug? An Internet thug is basically a "griefer". Someone who gets off on trying to anger and upset other people. They do this in a variety of ways and the most common way is to take advantages of loopholes or gaps in a website's forum system.

For example, when we designed the blog community JoeUser.com, we allow users to "blacklist" people. So if someone is causing them anguish, they can make them go away.  Now, the person can still try (with a different IP address) to come back as an anonymous user but the user can then make their blogs require a UserID to post and at that point, the griefer is usually stopped in their tracks.

But many sites don't have that level of protection. Some news systems only support anonymous commenting or no commenting at all (at which case, much of the enjoyment is taken away if no one can even interact).  On such sites, the thugs can go wild.

Other sites have more protections but "moderators", wizops, and other sub-administrators don't have complete access to them. That can enable a thug to target a particular moderator to try to get rid of them. And most volunteers have a lower threshold of pain before they'll quit.

For me, when faced with a "flight or fight" instinct I am inclined to go with the latter.  I've been running on-line communities for twenty years (literally, 1985 with Commodore 64 based BBSes on up).  I've seen these guys and they typically are serial griefers -- they get off on it so they keep doing it over and over again.  I've found that the only way to deal with them is use all the admin powers at my disposal to make it painful for them as well.  Most admins I've met tend not to want to play dirty or take the gloves off. The griefers count on that and hence can play their sadistic little games with impunity.

But like I said, I play rough. If someone's griefing me, I'll get nasty.  Instead of just removing their post, I'll edit their post.  And if that doesn't discourage them, I'll eventually start posting their IP address.  And if that doesn't work, there is a lot more uglier stuff (particularly if the griefer doesn't live in the US) that I can do.  But usually post editing is enough. 

For example, if a griefer writes: "You're a pathetic asshat, (user's real name when possible) . You should stick with having sex with your (insert relative) ."  I will change it to say (with their real name as the responder) "I wish I was a girl. Sometimes, when no one is around, I like to wear a dress. Not having any genitalia makes me confused sometimes about what I should do and that's why I act out. Can you forgive me?"

Your ability to deal with griefers is only limited by your own conscience, your affiliation with the site (if you're a moderator and not an admin, you should be talking to the site owner before you start wreaking havoc, the site owner might be better equipped to deal with the griefer), and of course your real world resources.  In my case, we have lots of lawyers so any would-be blow hard making legal threats can learn the hard way just how nasty the US legal system can be, especially to someone skirting the boundaries of cyber-terrorism.  Which also means you should keep a log of any posts that person has made for use as future evidence if necessary.

Griefers rarely get bored. They get off on trying to hurt other people. But they're usually stupid, lazy people who will take the path of least resistance. The best way to deal with them in my opinion is through discouragment. There's lots of potential targets for these losers, your best bet is to make yourself a less appealing target. And I do that by playing hardball with them.  It's not about revenge or getting them back or even justice.  It's purely about finding the lever that makes them go away when a simple ban just doesn't stick.

First Previous Page 3 of 4 Next Last
Bichur
Reply #41 Monday, May 9, 2005 4:09 PM
This isn't a kiddie site.


yeah i know. i've seen more than one thread here where an admin informed someone under age (per coppa) they need to change date of birth so they can stay.

for the record, i don't find profanity offensive.

i just find it sad that no one really wants to take responsibility and set standards for those who are following.

it appears i owe an apology for what may become a threadjack.

This was not my intent and I hereby offer contrition: I apologize for causing this thread to veer somewhat askew. It was neither by design nor intention. It was based in part on other thread requests asking for clean up of language. However since it was cleaned prior to my visiting the thread, I had no idea that type of profanity is allowed unless specifically directed at a skin or individual. I will make no further request of language.

Here is my request to those that read this through:

The subject at hand is internet thugs and dealing with them. Lets keep it that way. The article in itself is fine (and the dealings with, humorous (wish we could could deal with others in the non puter eviron the same way).

If you wish to discuss anything other than the article/internet thuggery, then please post a separate thread.
Double Zero
Reply #42 Monday, May 9, 2005 4:11 PM
Well Brad ( Hope ya dont mind me using your real name) I dont mean to argue, this really is just an observation...

I have noticed on this site that the point you are making is somewhat "unrealized" or "Unknown" or even perhaps "Unrecognized" by not only the members but also the Wizops/Mods...

I have witnessed people being reprimanded for using the slightest bit of profanity in their threads when infact they werent using it to flame anyone or anything, by the Wizops..Who are doing a fantastic job by the way and I am sure they believe they are doing their job as they understand it..as the majority seems to understand it...
I have even seen threads edited for something like F*** and the reason given was "Just because you remove the letters does not make it any less profane..."

Am I the only one here that has observed this?
I am not saying that WC should just say "Anything Goes"- Or am I saying that it should not be allowed period..I am just pointing out that there is most *Definitely confusion on the issue and perhaps clarification for everyone is in order??

Zero.
Bichur
Reply #43 Monday, May 9, 2005 4:14 PM
DZ posted before I could. must be special.
tri1ogy
Reply #44 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:36 AM
For example, if a griefer writes: "You're a pathetic asshat, (user's real name when possible) . You should stick with having sex with your (insert relative) ." I will change it to say (with their real name as the responder) "I wish I was a girl. Sometimes, when no one is around, I like to wear a dress. Not having any genitalia makes me confused sometimes about what I should do and that's why I act out. Can you forgive me?"


rofl!! Rock on Draginol!
WOWfactor.555.
Reply #45 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:17 PM
In Reference To Double Zero's Comment #43. I Think It Means It's All Relative.
If They Feel Like Editing Someone's Post For Whatever Reason, They Can - Because
They Own The Site. It Explains Threads Like This

https://www.wincustomize.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=144&AID=73657

On The Bright Side, I Can Now Say "Fuck" Or "Assclown" From Time To Time Without
Being Censored. Unless Of Course The Rule Above Is Applied
Draginol
Reply #46 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:25 PM
Well you can quote someone else saying those words if it is in context to the discussion at hand. Moderator discretion of course..
kona0197
Reply #47 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:26 PM
On The Bright Side, I Can Now Say "Fuck" Or "Assclown" From Time To Time Without
Being Censored. Unless Of Course The Rule Above Is Applied


Actually - I asked Jafo earlier if cussing from time to time is now allowed. He said no. I'm still confused about the meaning of this thread.
Jafo
Reply #48 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:39 PM

It is all about context.

The 'F' word was used in this thread for a reason.  It was a quoted example.

That doesn't mean automatically that it's open season on 'kiddie-speak'.

Generally "the 'F' word" is used by people who either think it's..

A... kewl and leet and 'all growed up'

B... they haven't reached second grade English classes yet so that's their sum-total of English Expression.

or

C... they want to attack someone or something as vehemently as possible and are short on ascerbic vitriol.

A and B are just plain sad...and C is frowned upon, anyway.

So, there's not too many ways its use is really justified...

WOWfactor.555.
Reply #49 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:02 PM
That doesn't mean automatically that it's open season on 'kiddie-speak'.


Glad you're not a teacher.

Well Double Zero, Don't Know What To Tell You. You Can, You Can't. If It's quoting Someone Else Yes - If Not No. You Can Say "Fuck" In PG13 Rated Movies And This Is A
PG13 Site So Umm Yes? Just Do What Feels Natural and If It's Not Acceptable, One Of
The Forum Admins Will Edit It Up. You Might Even Get A Long Boring and Useless Dialouge With a Wink At the End. If You're Lucky ...
Double Zero
Reply #50 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:03 PM
Well..Thanks WoW, Draginol and Jafo...Im pretty clear on it now..LoL

I'll just keep following my own "rule of thumb" Just dont do it..

Then..there isnt any confusion..::laughs::

If others do it..thats their own problem..and the admins..and I suppose the few that complain about those that do it..

either way.
it's all good,
Zero.
Bichur
Reply #51 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:26 PM
Oh come on people. We're up to 52 (not counting this as I type) comments.

Surely there's some more of y'all out that have been in the same situation and had to deal with thugs.

I really expected, and have been waiting, to read some "Griefers? Let me tell you about some griefers".

Let's hear some more snippets - flesh this puppy out.
Bichur
Reply #52 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:32 PM
system hash marks,


That reminds me, I've seen this term before - being somewhat quasisemiputerilliterate...

What does it mean?
Bichur
Reply #53 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:41 PM
Oh yeah, had another question/

Since things really don't change every generation has it's own version, I was wondering...

Would these thugs be akin to those who always showed up and 'protested' (basically shouting inane things that have no bearing) anybody who was speaking anywhere. Not the true beleivers, the fringe crowd. Or, would they equate more to those really weird homeless looking ones who just rant/rave and cuss out anyone and everyone?
Jafo
Reply #54 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:49 AM

(basically shouting inane things that have no bearing)

You mean 'hecklers' .... yep, these are them critters ...

Bichur
Reply #55 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:02 AM
Okay, now I get it.
Thanks Admin Jafo.

Still wondering about hash marks and having to replace a HD.
bakerstreet
Reply #56 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:31 AM
Bichur: repeat after me. "I am Sofa King. We, Todd Ed!"

Repeat as often as necessary.
Bichur
Reply #57 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:03 AM
Hey
Bakerstreet... look out your window. Short bus is there to take you to spelling class.

I do have to admit though, with no intention of making fun of anyone, that's the first time I've seen a speech impediment carry over to typing.
Bichur
Reply #58 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:08 AM
Bichur: repeat after me. "I am Sofa King. We, Todd Ed!"


And by the way, I'm sorry but I don't really want to join your little circle.
You'll have to be content with Bakerstree, Todd, Ed.
dissimuloorator
Reply #59 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:47 PM
And yet when someone doesn't agree with Brad, and refuses to get the point that "others" think he should, he gets banned. Go figure... Refusing to agree to a groups point and steadfast sticking to your guns, gets less respect than dealing with an Asshat. Looks like I'm working on strike two. Also BTW nice touch, "pimping your Post to "adwords" or whatever they call those advertisements. How can I insert them into my post for revenues?
MasonM
Reply #60 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:00 PM
I've never seen Brad ban anyone for disagreement with him. Just for acting like an asshat about it.

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