Blogging on WinCustomize
Wednesday, July 21, 2004 by mrbiotech | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I'm really amazed at the positive response to the Blogging poll. I stand adamantly in the "No, this sort of thing should be in the message boards, not the home page" and feel like my comments in FrogBoy's blogs may have precipitated the formation of the poll.
Here's my justification: WC is a community-based site, not the personal opinion site of any one person. While it's true that the message boards and commenting systems permit the average community member or theme user to post their opinions, the same is not true of the front page of WinCustomize, reserved for news items reflecting the community (new software, contests, updates, etc). The liberties taken by Brad for his "articles," however informative, defy precedent established by the majority of theme community websites (DeviantArt, customize.org, litestep.net, skinz.org), and are akin to Steve Jobs making commentaries on Apple's downloads page, or Bill Gates editorials on the front of microsoft.com.
I'm not saying that his blogging is bad: the articles are enjoyable and some of the information valuable. The place is incorrect, however, as the remainder of the community is not permitted this luxury, relagating OUR subjective comments to the forums or on specific submitted works. Brad, I'm just politely asking that the venue of the blogs be changed, in fairness to this great community you've helped found, and out of respect for a site that has always maintained a family-type atmosphere. Elitism isn't a pleasant hallmark, but a good example speaks volumes.
Here's my justification: WC is a community-based site, not the personal opinion site of any one person. While it's true that the message boards and commenting systems permit the average community member or theme user to post their opinions, the same is not true of the front page of WinCustomize, reserved for news items reflecting the community (new software, contests, updates, etc). The liberties taken by Brad for his "articles," however informative, defy precedent established by the majority of theme community websites (DeviantArt, customize.org, litestep.net, skinz.org), and are akin to Steve Jobs making commentaries on Apple's downloads page, or Bill Gates editorials on the front of microsoft.com.
I'm not saying that his blogging is bad: the articles are enjoyable and some of the information valuable. The place is incorrect, however, as the remainder of the community is not permitted this luxury, relagating OUR subjective comments to the forums or on specific submitted works. Brad, I'm just politely asking that the venue of the blogs be changed, in fairness to this great community you've helped found, and out of respect for a site that has always maintained a family-type atmosphere. Elitism isn't a pleasant hallmark, but a good example speaks volumes.
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mrbiotech
Reply #42 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:22 AM
Reply #42 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:22 AM
Koasati- that's encouraging to know.
Chas- Didn't mean for it to take that tangent. Interesting study in stream of consciousness, though: Elitism by front-page opinions -> Jafo: Certain user statuses can post news. -> MrB: User promotions subjective -> Jafo: No -> MrB: Yes, because it appeared that only WinCustomize contributors were promoted, contrary to policy.
Your question introduces an interesting nuance, however. Is WinCustomize a Theming community site, or is it solely a StarDock gateway? Although obviously funded by StarDock, I initially believed it was more of a general theming community. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Jafo- Thanks for your assessment. The crass, sarcastic belittlement is always welcome, old friend
Chas- Didn't mean for it to take that tangent. Interesting study in stream of consciousness, though: Elitism by front-page opinions -> Jafo: Certain user statuses can post news. -> MrB: User promotions subjective -> Jafo: No -> MrB: Yes, because it appeared that only WinCustomize contributors were promoted, contrary to policy.
Your question introduces an interesting nuance, however. Is WinCustomize a Theming community site, or is it solely a StarDock gateway? Although obviously funded by StarDock, I initially believed it was more of a general theming community. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Jafo- Thanks for your assessment. The crass, sarcastic belittlement is always welcome, old friend
IPlural
Reply #43 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:32 AM
pretentious ain't you...
The precedence you speak of is probably seen through a lopsided perspective. Meaning there is probably more history than you have been informed of, or you are willing to admit.
Banishment is not something that is going to happen unless there has been some thing which is seen as a serious threat, continuous personal attacks, cyber stalking, email flooding with hate filled threats and personal attacks and so on.
I would bet that if you really have a hang up about it and can tell an admin of the specifics in which half a reality is being based. They will be more than willing to fill in the rest so a complete picture can be used to form a valid opinion/position.
There is a difference between our position on not being purely direct.
You fear being banned.
I am doing it out of respect for the site and members (including you), the admins, wizops,moderators and Brad. I do not worship them, anyone or anything, but I do have respect for them so will not cross the line.
Most of this is not as hard to understand as you make it really.
1. There was a poll held and there was a count which reflected the larger number of members do in fact like the Blog style News which Brad has added.
If you do not like it do not read it, simple as that.
If you wish to add News Items, do so, it's an option you are given as a member. Hell, the more members who do add news items the more active they are being in positively partaking in the site and offering to others a new means of information gathering. Hence an advancement in user level partly by what they add to the site and community at large. Yes the community, do you think that only WinCustomize members are the only skinners and such whom happen to visit here?
2. The Skinning Community is not just WinCustomize but at the same time when someone shows up who is an active productive part of the Community as a whole then they will have some kind of known persona in the Community. At that point I would think that they would advance as seen fit while starting at a higher than normal level once an admin knows of their being a member. But if you or they expect the admins to bounce all over the web checking up on non-members active participation in the Community I think you and they would be a bit unrealistic, you know this don't you?
As a matter of fact, until such time as they make it known they are a member of this site there is not anyway to even raise their user level.
But you know that, don't you.
3. Why is it if someone happens to see things from an opposing perspective which happens to be that of those in charge of the Logistical Operations of this site on a given topic you feel the need to label them an Over Dog Worshiper?
Why do you have the need to box and label others while attempting to make your point. Speak to them and they will speak with you, speak at them and they will probably ignore you, speak down to them you speak to yourself every time.
[Message Edited]
Reply #43 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:32 AM
| Iplural- I thought I was being obvious- apologies if it's too much for you. I'm also reluctant to be purely direct because I've known plenty of friends that "used" to be WC'ers. Direct translation so you'll understand: They were either banned or felt so unwelcome that they voluntarily left. In making a case against the admins here, fear certainly exists that the same could happen to me. The precedent already exists. |
pretentious ain't you...
The precedence you speak of is probably seen through a lopsided perspective. Meaning there is probably more history than you have been informed of, or you are willing to admit.
Banishment is not something that is going to happen unless there has been some thing which is seen as a serious threat, continuous personal attacks, cyber stalking, email flooding with hate filled threats and personal attacks and so on.
I would bet that if you really have a hang up about it and can tell an admin of the specifics in which half a reality is being based. They will be more than willing to fill in the rest so a complete picture can be used to form a valid opinion/position.
There is a difference between our position on not being purely direct.
You fear being banned.
I am doing it out of respect for the site and members (including you), the admins, wizops,moderators and Brad. I do not worship them, anyone or anything, but I do have respect for them so will not cross the line.
Most of this is not as hard to understand as you make it really.
1. There was a poll held and there was a count which reflected the larger number of members do in fact like the Blog style News which Brad has added.
If you do not like it do not read it, simple as that.
If you wish to add News Items, do so, it's an option you are given as a member. Hell, the more members who do add news items the more active they are being in positively partaking in the site and offering to others a new means of information gathering. Hence an advancement in user level partly by what they add to the site and community at large. Yes the community, do you think that only WinCustomize members are the only skinners and such whom happen to visit here?
2. The Skinning Community is not just WinCustomize but at the same time when someone shows up who is an active productive part of the Community as a whole then they will have some kind of known persona in the Community. At that point I would think that they would advance as seen fit while starting at a higher than normal level once an admin knows of their being a member. But if you or they expect the admins to bounce all over the web checking up on non-members active participation in the Community I think you and they would be a bit unrealistic, you know this don't you?
As a matter of fact, until such time as they make it known they are a member of this site there is not anyway to even raise their user level.
But you know that, don't you.
3. Why is it if someone happens to see things from an opposing perspective which happens to be that of those in charge of the Logistical Operations of this site on a given topic you feel the need to label them an Over Dog Worshiper?
Why do you have the need to box and label others while attempting to make your point. Speak to them and they will speak with you, speak at them and they will probably ignore you, speak down to them you speak to yourself every time.
[Message Edited]
IPlural
Reply #44 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:41 AM
Reply #44 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:41 AM
Advancement:
take an active part in the Help Section, Skinning Section or Main Section of the message board and help others.
View submissions to the libraries and leave productive comments "This is shit, this sucks, a kid with a crayon can do better" is not productive.
Add to the News section of the home page with interesting subject matter, Tech News, Hardware, Software, Skinning News and so on.
Quickest way to be de-voiced on message board.
constant personal attacks, ignoring warnings by the admins, wizops, moderators, cyber-stalking, spamming, discussing Pirate Sites, Software and ways to Pirate Software. ( you would find it funny how many people come to the message board and talk about how they run pirated Stardock software or request info on where or how to pirate the software over the period of a year )
Banishment.
same as above but with various things added to it creating a combination of issues.
take an active part in the Help Section, Skinning Section or Main Section of the message board and help others.
View submissions to the libraries and leave productive comments "This is shit, this sucks, a kid with a crayon can do better" is not productive.
Add to the News section of the home page with interesting subject matter, Tech News, Hardware, Software, Skinning News and so on.
Quickest way to be de-voiced on message board.
constant personal attacks, ignoring warnings by the admins, wizops, moderators, cyber-stalking, spamming, discussing Pirate Sites, Software and ways to Pirate Software. ( you would find it funny how many people come to the message board and talk about how they run pirated Stardock software or request info on where or how to pirate the software over the period of a year )
Banishment.
same as above but with various things added to it creating a combination of issues.
kona0197
Reply #46 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:53 AM
I wish Koasati would get ahold of me. Haven't talked in ages.
Reply #46 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:53 AM
| Randy not logged into MSN? |
I wish Koasati would get ahold of me. Haven't talked in ages.
IPlural
Reply #47 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:58 AM
Reply #47 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:58 AM
oh, September we will be in SanFran.. 
I still have to get the exact date but we will be there that month, my sons ship will be in port also so he should be around for a bit also.
I'll let you and Davidk know the dates arrive and depart asap.
Might be in Texas before then though.
I still have to get the exact date but we will be there that month, my sons ship will be in port also so he should be around for a bit also.
I'll let you and Davidk know the dates arrive and depart asap.
Might be in Texas before then though.
kona0197
Reply #48 Friday, July 23, 2004 1:36 AM
Reply #48 Friday, July 23, 2004 1:36 AM
Well I hope you have fun in SF but I can't get down there anytime soon my friend..
We now return you to the topic at hand!!
We now return you to the topic at hand!!
MindlessPuppet
Reply #50 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:34 AM
I never noticed that to be honest... Also I was wondering will the new site have a feature similar to deviantart's DeviantWatch?
Reply #50 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:34 AM
| Take a look at who posts all the news pretty much. Yet there is a "submit news" link at the top. |
I never noticed that to be honest... Also I was wondering will the new site have a feature similar to deviantart's DeviantWatch?
MindlessPuppet
Reply #51 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:44 AM
Whoa, what can one say besides why don't you take a self-righteous dive, head first off your moral high horse.
*sorry for double post, catching up on reading this thread as I made em.
[Message Edited]
Reply #51 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:44 AM
| I thought I was being obvious- apologies if it's too much for you. I'm also reluctant to be purely direct because I've known plenty of friends that "used" to be WC'ers. Direct translation so you'll understand: They were either banned or felt so unwelcome that they voluntarily left. In making a case against the admins here, fear certainly exists that the same could happen to me. The precedent already exists. |
Whoa, what can one say besides why don't you take a self-righteous dive, head first off your moral high horse.
*sorry for double post, catching up on reading this thread as I made em.
[Message Edited]
mrbiotech
Reply #52 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:22 PM
Reply #52 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:22 PM
IPlural, I honestly feel as though your posts here were intended to be insulting, so my attempt was to be as explicit as possible. I've also attempted to maintain a fairly objective stance despite feeling strongly on the issue, whereas others, yourself included, have made jabs, cracks and comments that have consequently been edited. This is not an equitable solution.
If I had to blanket you into a group, it would be the "Adversarial group," of which MindlessPuppet and Jafo would probably also admit to. Whether you intend to or not, your excessive candor has offended many and probably driven a healthy contingent of WC users into thinking that they're point of views were less than acceptable.
With regards to the overdog worshippers comment- I also felt when the comment was made, as now, that there are people that will butt-kiss. The ratings system here is another evidence of that behavior. You were not labelled in this category, although it appears you feel you were, and the reference was not levelled at those whose views directly opposed my own. It was a statement that whenever there are people installed in positions that obtain popularity, people will bow to that person's opinion simply because of the position. That's why I believe it's unfair to post self-proclaimed blogs on the front page of the site, because FrogBoy's opinions, acknowledged or not, carries great weight in the community, and must therefore be excercised with great caution. To "the great un-washed" any bias presented by a person in his position could have potential to sway community opinion. I think those that have posted here are inherently a cut above the rest in their abilities to formulate and express individual opinions, for which you are to be commended. It's the common, everyday kid that may not that I worry about.
This is the crux of my argument, and it's clear that nobody else echoes these sentiments. I was intending to initiate some conversation on the topic and instead introduced a great deal of contention, and created an avenue to let adversarial individuals say some inappropriate things, of which I too am guilty, for which I apologize.
If I had to blanket you into a group, it would be the "Adversarial group," of which MindlessPuppet and Jafo would probably also admit to. Whether you intend to or not, your excessive candor has offended many and probably driven a healthy contingent of WC users into thinking that they're point of views were less than acceptable.
With regards to the overdog worshippers comment- I also felt when the comment was made, as now, that there are people that will butt-kiss. The ratings system here is another evidence of that behavior. You were not labelled in this category, although it appears you feel you were, and the reference was not levelled at those whose views directly opposed my own. It was a statement that whenever there are people installed in positions that obtain popularity, people will bow to that person's opinion simply because of the position. That's why I believe it's unfair to post self-proclaimed blogs on the front page of the site, because FrogBoy's opinions, acknowledged or not, carries great weight in the community, and must therefore be excercised with great caution. To "the great un-washed" any bias presented by a person in his position could have potential to sway community opinion. I think those that have posted here are inherently a cut above the rest in their abilities to formulate and express individual opinions, for which you are to be commended. It's the common, everyday kid that may not that I worry about.
This is the crux of my argument, and it's clear that nobody else echoes these sentiments. I was intending to initiate some conversation on the topic and instead introduced a great deal of contention, and created an avenue to let adversarial individuals say some inappropriate things, of which I too am guilty, for which I apologize.
SelfExiled
Reply #53 Friday, July 23, 2004 1:14 PM
Reply #53 Friday, July 23, 2004 1:14 PM
No need to apologize. I understand your feeling about the demigod status here and the "Bradites". Whether or not such a situation actually exists is plausible. But, this is just a website. Just a customization website in fact. And it is owned by Brad, I guess. So, I guess he can do with it how he likes. If we don't like it, we can leave. And, if enough of us leave, maybe someone will get a clue. If we don't like the moral stance presented to our children, then I wouldn't let my children come here.
As far as the content of the news "Blog", I don't have a problem with it. It's Brads play yard. This is obviously a "Pro" Windows Site, and "Anti" Mac Site, and I don't have a problem with that either. I mean, why would you come here if you are a Mac User?
I understand the "Anti" Style XP info and I find it very interesting.
There is a lot of terrible stuff going on all over the internet and all over the world. Brads little rants are sometimes quite informative, and if I disagree with him, I'll let him know and so should you. If the Brad Followers(Bradites) jump on you, then beat them back with a rubber hose. And, lets try to have a little fun. Life is too serious. We all gotta die someday anyway.
As far as the content of the news "Blog", I don't have a problem with it. It's Brads play yard. This is obviously a "Pro" Windows Site, and "Anti" Mac Site, and I don't have a problem with that either. I mean, why would you come here if you are a Mac User?
I understand the "Anti" Style XP info and I find it very interesting.
There is a lot of terrible stuff going on all over the internet and all over the world. Brads little rants are sometimes quite informative, and if I disagree with him, I'll let him know and so should you. If the Brad Followers(Bradites) jump on you, then beat them back with a rubber hose. And, lets try to have a little fun. Life is too serious. We all gotta die someday anyway.
MindlessPuppet
Reply #55 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:36 PM
Heh, clearly you missed the thread about the previous poll 'should wincustomize support premium suites' (or something to that extent), in which it was basically me butting-heads with everyone. It's not a matter of being in group or whatnot, sometimes people agree, sometimes they don't. As towards initiating conversation, well this is about as civil as forum coversations get. It's in their nature to seem hostile.
Reply #55 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:36 PM
| If I had to blanket you into a group, it would be the "Adversarial group," of which MindlessPuppet and Jafo would probably also admit to. |
Heh, clearly you missed the thread about the previous poll 'should wincustomize support premium suites' (or something to that extent), in which it was basically me butting-heads with everyone. It's not a matter of being in group or whatnot, sometimes people agree, sometimes they don't. As towards initiating conversation, well this is about as civil as forum coversations get. It's in their nature to seem hostile.
Jafo
Reply #56 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:50 PM
Reply #56 Friday, July 23, 2004 7:50 PM
| If I had to blanket you into a group, it would be the "Adversarial group," of which MindlessPuppet and Jafo would probably also admit to |
Yes, I'd admit that IPlural would be in that group....
If you mean that I would be in it....no....I'm in the 'Bradite' group...haven't you heard? I don't have a brain or my own opinion...[you can call me 'Parrot'].
In reality I'm in the 'Pro Wincustomize.com and will do all I can to help maintain its success, prominence and popularity' group.....
Frogboy
Reply #57 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:26 PM
Reply #57 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:26 PM
Regarding a quasi-deviantWatch type feature, we are going to have a feature that allows users to subscribe to a given user's mini-site. So when they do something, you'll be notified of it.
But remember, deviantART is a very different type of site. We're not looking to become an art site or something. We're a customization site. But we do want to have a lot more interactivity than we currently have.
We've been building up technology for the past year and a hafl on sites like JoeUser.com in preparation for doing the next generation WC.
SelfExiled
Reply #58 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:57 PM
Language? I didn't recognize any curse words. A little critical? Slightly, sometimes, but a mind is a terrible thing not to speak.
Being a Bradite, isn't neccesarily a bad thing either. I think we're all partly Gate-ites.(Chas places his foot deeper in his mouth)
Reply #58 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:57 PM
| ChasUGC....language, please.... |
Language? I didn't recognize any curse words. A little critical? Slightly, sometimes, but a mind is a terrible thing not to speak.
Being a Bradite, isn't neccesarily a bad thing either. I think we're all partly Gate-ites.(Chas places his foot deeper in his mouth)
MindlessPuppet
Reply #59 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:58 PM
Hehe, that's actually all I was refering to.
Reply #59 Friday, July 23, 2004 8:58 PM
| So when they do something, you'll be notified of it. |
Hehe, that's actually all I was refering to.
Jafo
Reply #60 Friday, July 23, 2004 9:07 PM
Reply #60 Friday, July 23, 2004 9:07 PM
Chas...I removed the post.....using asterisks to censor a word, particularly in such an obvious phrase isn't sufficient....
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Reply #41 Friday, July 23, 2004 12:14 AM
Chas...Litestep isn't a 'competitor' as such...but more a significant co-habitant with OD/WB, Winamp and other 'pioneering' proggies in our skinning history.
A good many skinners are also shell themers for such critters as Hoverdesk, Litestep, etc....