WindowBlinds 11 planning

Friday, December 25, 2020 by Frogboy | Discussion: WindowBlinds

We are putting together the schedule to make WindowBlinds 11.  

Customization is a lot harder now than it used to be.  Microsoft, for reasons unknown, has actively encouraged developers to take care of their own client and even non client (border, frame) painting rather than using standard Windows controls.  

Microsoft's baffling decision to throw away trying to provide a standard set of in-app controls for developers and instead provide vague, often conflicting standards (cough, Fluent) has resulted in having less and less of the OS we can even touch.

Which is unfortunate because WindowBlinds, in theory, could actually give Windows users a consistent, OS-wide Fluent if apps weren't handling the drawing of their own UIs these days.

Still, with that in mind, there are things we can do such as skin the standard OS controls and then handle apps on a case-by-case basis.  Keep in mind though, the more non-standard apps we have to handle, the harder it is for us to keep compatibility.

Earlier this year we released Curtains which doesn't even hook into the OS.  This means it is 100% compatible. Skins, even the weirdest ones, won't break a given app.  Of course, the price is that it doesn't skin nearly as much (no client area GUI controls like scrollbars, push buttons, radio buttons, etc.).  It's done quite well.  However, we know there are still plenty of people out there who would like to have more full control over how their Windows desktop looks.

That's where this thread comes in: What would you like to see in WindowBlinds 11?  

First Previous Page 24 of 34 Next Last
Jafo
Reply #461 Sunday, February 13, 2022 6:48 PM

The problem is...and always has been....Shell enhancements are not the same thing as a 3rd party program that runs in Windows.

Windowblinds is not Photoshop.  They are nothing alike in functionality.

Windows 11 can easily be 'finished' enough to [mostly] reliably run Photoshop without issue....and still have the Shell go through massive revisions and changes with no visible effect.  Windowblinds actually needs a FINISHED Shell that is NOT going to alter maybe until Windows 12 ...so WB 11 can run seemlessly with the 11 Shell until it too changes for the next OS....just as it has changed for all the Windows versions before.

Getting Windowblinds 10 'running' on Windows 11 with the use of another proggy...in this case Explorer Patcher is identical to getting it to function under Litestep ....an entirely different Shell [until LoneRunnr revises the LS code]. [tho that's not likely to happen as he's long gone from LS]....

People who have been in the GUI Modding game for decades have been there and done that...but whether it's 'Explorer Patcher' or 'Litestep' [or any of the squillion alternate shells there once was] getting WB11 working that way in Win 11 is NOT what it's all about.

It is ONLY an option for the 'tinkerer'...

PhoenixRising1
Reply #462 Sunday, February 13, 2022 7:22 PM


Windowblinds actually needs a FINISHED Shell that is NOT going to alter maybe until Windows 12

The scary thing is that there is no guarantee of that actually happening. Since the DEV channel is going to go into full experimental mode a lot could potentially change still. There is hope, at least in my general thinking, that maybe by using start 11's taskbar features that would become less of an issue.


Explorer Patcher' or 'Litestep' [or any of the squillion alternate shells there once was] getting WB11 working that way in Win 11 is NOT what it's all about.

It is ONLY an option for the 'tinkerer'...

I can not speak for everyone here, but I never thought of using explorerpatcher as anything more.. I am in fact a 'tinkerer'

Jafo
Reply #463 Sunday, February 13, 2022 7:45 PM

PhoenixRising1

The scary thing is that there is no guarantee of that actually happening. Since the DEV channel is going to go into full experimental mode a lot could potentially change still. There is hope, at least in my general thinking, that maybe by using start 11's taskbar features that would become less of an issue.

Yes, Start 11 is again a Shell enhancement/part replacement that can side-step much of what MS might still tinker with.

When I was heavily invested with Litestep I'd do Windowblinds skins to 'match' and if you looked at them they never skinned the task bar...as Litestep didn't actually have one [unless you wrote it that way].  Most access was via right-click and fly-out hotspots etc akin to Docks...so you'd draw those specifically and add a WB skin to do the Windows themselves.

I can guarantee the user-base even back then for Litestep was infinitely smaller than that for Windowblinds....hence it wasn't a legitimate way to go for WB Devs in the 'real world'.

Tinkerers didn't care tho...

PhoenixRising1
Reply #464 Sunday, February 13, 2022 8:26 PM

Jafo,

That does shine a light on the theory that start 11 v1.3 does in fact need to be completed before windowblinds 11 beta can even be started. Sometimes it just takes some tech talk to get there... Hopefully, this conversation puts some at ease now.

And the comparison of explorerpatcher to Litestep is on point as well. It is cool to get things to work and as a 'tinkerer' there is definitely some gratification there. But from a business standpoint, there really no reason for stardock to use explorerpatcher for windowblinds 11. I myself never thought of explorerpatcher that way but perhaps there was never enough emphasis on it being a 'tinker' project either. Obviously, Stardock does need their own programing and not barrow someone else's.

Jafo
Reply #465 Sunday, February 13, 2022 8:39 PM

PhoenixRising1

Obviously, Stardock does need their own programing and not barrow someone else's.

Yes...bad enough they have to rely on someone else's OS.

When you incorporate a third party's product...if they drop the ball then your game is affected too.

Look at Object Dock.  It  used readily accessible [and free] Weather feeds....and people liked that functionality.  Then the Weather feed co's went seriously commercial [old trick...suck people in with a freebie...then start charging when they think they can't live without it]...and the feeds became commercially unviable to include in a low-cost product.

Stardock still gets the grief for someone else's 'greed' ...

RedneckDude
Reply #466 Sunday, February 13, 2022 11:20 PM

PhoenixRising1

Other then
Other THAN would be proper grammar.....LOL....Fuckin with ya.

RedneckDude
Reply #467 Sunday, February 13, 2022 11:25 PM


squillion
You are quite eloquent with the English language. I am impressed at what I keep having to Google. 

neone6
Reply #468 Monday, February 14, 2022 8:11 AM

RedneckDude


Quoting Jafo,

squillion

You are quite eloquent with the English language. I am impressed at what I keep having to Google. 

     

naroon1
Reply #469 Monday, February 14, 2022 1:32 PM

Tinkerer is one word for what we do, although if my Boss could pin that title on my head, i am sure he would try to lower my Pay Grade   

I would love to go around mending broken household utensils, my stress levels would certainly drop and life would be much simpler, been called a few things in the past but will have to remember when next time a whole floor of my office goes offline through the numerous IT issues i deal with every day, i will just say to the Dept head, "be there in a moment and I will have a Tinker" .    Classic Jafo.

JCurie
Reply #470 Monday, February 14, 2022 3:11 PM

Without Microsoft Windows there would be no Windowblinds but Microsofts been a pain in Stardocks Hardrive since OS2. It seems like they intentionally rattle Stardocks cages and for the life of me I can't tell you why. 

BassdudeNZ
Reply #471 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 6:16 AM

Considering that Stardock successfully modified parts of Windows for ages, to say they are completely reliant on MS is not completely accurate. Microsoft has a reputation of not considering many of their 3rd Party developers and  manufacturers. This stems way back to early releases of Win95 where alpha versions reputedly destroyed hard disks. Nowadays, if anyone wishes to read the MS EULA, which is marginally less time-consuming than watching paint dry, MS can pretty much do almost whatever they wish because if you do not agree it won't install.

That said, Stardock could reskin Linux easily and probably do a better job than a lot of respected Linux skinners, so they're definitely not completely reliant. They could also move to MAC if they chose. Microsoft is quite clear that they're not responsible for any damage caused by their software to your hardware and vice-versa or any 3rd party developer to their O/S. So where does that leave Stardock? It leaves them to work with what they are handed.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd like to see MS be more cooperative with 3rd Party developers who have supported their O/S like Stardock for a very long time. Transparency in Win 11 consistently is not perfect. There are ways to manipulate it on the taskbar and in open windows, but the start menu is moderately limited if anyone wants equal transparency across every area. I am not convinced yet that the O/S is consistent enough yet. I too like it like many others but its balance across all areas is not perfect.... yet. That's only my opinion too.

 

disc01
Reply #472 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 6:40 AM

Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?

JCurie
Reply #473 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 8:55 AM

disc01

Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?

Probably because it will work on windows 11. But I'm quite sure they have other improvements and enhancements. 

naroon1
Reply #474 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 12:32 PM

disc01

Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?

As there is no WB11 yet, we have to assume like with lots of things that are released as "new and improved" That it will be better. It will definitely be more compatible and hopefully backwards compatible with older master skins. When it lands i am sure many members will give valued opinions after testing it out.

RedneckDude
Reply #475 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 12:48 PM

disc01

Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?
It technically doesn't yet exist, but it's coming.  

RedneckDude
Reply #476 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 12:48 PM

naroon1

As there is no WB11 yet,
I missed this...lol.

 

PhoenixRising1
Reply #477 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 3:08 PM

RedneckDude


Quoting PhoenixRising1,

Other then

Other THAN would be proper grammar.....LOL....Fuckin with ya.

Valuable English lessons from a Redneck Dude  

Humor is good, I missed the edit. lol

PhoenixRising1
Reply #478 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 3:11 PM

disc01

Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?

It is all part of a new line of software with Windows 11 in mind. Start 11, Fences 4, Deskscapes 2, Groupy 2, and soon Windowblinds 11 all designed to work on Windows 10 but maximized and must have software for the Windows 11 users.

xewafa3865
Reply #479 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 3:43 PM

it is over the times for windows skinning are over with continuous updates of windows and changes of the DWM it is hardly possible to keep a skinning software permanently functional for the users. with the next big windows 11 update the taskbar and menu will be changed again. many programs use a user interface that is also not skinnable , too bad
windows 11 looks reasonably good with its transparency, acryllic and mica, from ui3 so you have to put up with it.

RedneckDude
Reply #480 Tuesday, February 15, 2022 3:53 PM

PhoenixRising1

Valuable English lessons from a Redneck Dude
I skipped a few too. Didn't want to be a nuisance....    

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