A Poll regarding bandwidth and costs (important)
Sunday, July 27, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This as good a time as any since this subject is going to have to be dealt with at some point:
Our Story So far...
As long time users know, the amount of traffic this site gets has steadily increased. This month something like 1.3 million unique individuals will visit this website.
Since the dot-com collapse, bandwidth prices have increasingly become painful because there's no realistic way to pay for the site via banner ads. We are getting ready to unveil Textbanners.net this next week and hopefully that will help (users can take out ads on the site directly for as little as $1 per day).
But realistically, we're at something like 50 megabits of bandwidth much of which is dedicated to this site.
Right now, Stardock pays for virtually all of the tab. The goal was always for WinCustomize to become self-sustaining. But as the site has grown, that hope has drifted further and further off.
But to try to off-set costs, we instituted WinCustomize subscriptions. For $19.95 a user gets a 2 year subscription to the site which gives them unlimited downloads, 2 premium suites, and the WinCustomize browser along with 5,000 free impressions on TextBanners.net.
Non-subscribers have been restricted to 50 megabytes of bandwidth they could consume in the form of downloads. You'll occasionally see a post by someone who suddenly discovers scruples and expresses his outrage and desire to defend innocent artists everywhere for having to pay to download more stuff. But it's been one of the few ways of getting people to subscribe or at least go away and go to some other site to download stuff.
Subscribers have helped us pay for new hardware, more bandwidth, etc. But it's still a fairly low percentage. Well not just fairly low but amazingly low (far less than 1% of visitors).
One reason for that is because Stardock customers are currently exempt from the bandwidth restriction. So are users with access levels Apprentice and up.
Who should pay the bills?
That's put Stardock in an awkward position. It's facing either having to raise the price on Object Desktop (the proposed price is $69.95 up front and $37.95 for renewals) or put some sort of cap on the amount of megabytes a non-subscriber Stardock customer can get. The proposal on that end is 250 megabytes.
We'd like to hear from you. Which way do you think is most fair? My opinion is that we should go with the 250 meg cap on SDof bandwidthvery few people download that amount of bandwidth so it would only affect a small percent (most of the bandwidth is used by a small percent btw). Those users can contribute either by subscribing for $20 for 2 years or contributing in other ways (skins, themes, walls, message boards, etc. and gaining higher access).
What's your view?
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Reply #43 Monday, July 28, 2003 6:40 AM
| #19 by EventHorizon - 7/27/2003 5:48:35 PM Is raising the price of the subscription a possibility? Or would that scare away the customers? ($20/1yr) ($35/2yrs) |
I have to agree with EventHorizon. Make the WC subscription $20.00 Per year. Also, make WC a subscription/app purchase site only. Twenty bucks a year ain't that much for what you are getting here.
Too many people reach the 50mb cap, and then with a few key strokes, change their IP address (dial up makes it easier), and re-subscribe with a different user name, thus giving themselves unlimited free downloads.
I did this myself before guilt forced me to purchase OD (most of which I will never use as I don't skin and have no graphics talent at all), and a subscription to WC.
You might also think about offering paid e-mail services... "[email protected]". Offering personal web hosting/site packages might also be something to look at.
This is easier to say than to implement, I know, but might worth thinking about all the same.
Now, there are those who will bitch and whine about my suggestion of making WC a strictly subscription/app purchase site. That is because most of them want everything for nothing.
There are those who will say that doing this will scare away new subscribers as well. I don't think that this will be the case. WC and Stardock are sufficiently well known to attract new business on the strength of their names and reputations alone.
Even some OEM computer manufacturers put out systems with a Window Blinds theme as the default. I know this because I work for one (The theme we put on one of our systems was "XXX". I believe it was made specifically for us. Frogboy will likely remember which OEM I'm talking about here).
I think that people will be willing to pay to be able to have access to WC if the site becomes accessable only through subscription/app purchase. Stardock is after all a business and not a charity organization.
Just my humble opinion for what it's worth.
Oh... by the way.... Those of you who are thinking of flaming me for my comments here.... Whatever!!!
Reply #44 Monday, July 28, 2003 8:20 AM
Reply #45 Monday, July 28, 2003 10:56 AM
| #42 by Mr XX - 7/28/2003 6:34:22 AM jcg thats similiar to my idea. |
Well, what do you expect me to do, read the entire thread?
The only disadvantage to the idea is many of the skins I download are to try out for commenting purposes and I only use a small percentage of those afterwards. That activity would be difficult to keep up with a monthly dl limit.
Reply #46 Monday, July 28, 2003 11:03 AM
| I would say last, just because some kids are downloading more then 250 megs dasn't mean that people who are buying objectdock should be pay more. I think 250 megs is a bit high. Shouldn't it be smarter to make it 100-150 Megs for people who don't contribute and 200 megs for people who do make skins and contribute? |
Yea, 250megs is too high. 100 is more reasonable...Ppl just need to watch what they download.
(And hope the preview image to the wallpaper they want is the same size/quality as the one in the zip)
Reply #47 Monday, July 28, 2003 11:47 AM
Reply #48 Monday, July 28, 2003 12:31 PM
Sorry if I rambled there but I feel that the use of a persons "contributions" in this matter is going to alienate some long time users of Stardock products.
Thanks,
-=- Kevin
Reply #49 Monday, July 28, 2003 12:33 PM
If this has already been clarified, please ignore the above.
As Doomgaze pointed out, it'd be nice to see how much of the bandwidth is used on the site itself vs. things downloads of like walls, etc.
As for caps for non-subscribers/contributors 5-10 megs a month seems fair to me. If they aren't contributing or subscribing, the free ride has to end somewhere.
Reply #50 Monday, July 28, 2003 1:26 PM
| Crispy Dove,not a great idea, people who know zip about this type of business can cause huge problems and in real terms, there is no such thing as a free lunch, let alone free love 'Venture Capitalists' I think?And there are not too many 'insane rich guys' out there .... they don't retain their $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ if they are wackos! |
Napalm Dove naive....
Look at this insane rich guy who just decides to drive around the earth because it seemed like a fun idea…I’m sure brad could shake him down for some serious cash.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375509127/002-2145025-2975253?v=glance
No free love? I think someone woke up on the wrong side of the outback. I thought you guys were supposed to be whimsical and sing songs like tie me kangaroo down sport, what a grouch.
I say Star dock should take a revolutionary stance and return to a pre von Neumann environment….if the customer refuses to pay all the plugs can get pulled from a star dock program rendering it completely and utterly useless.
Reply #51 Monday, July 28, 2003 3:46 PM
The problem that WC has is that many of the skins posted on here are available at other sites that don't require payment of any kind. I download here first, not only because I'm a member, but because its usually here first. So I think certainly some way of assuring that skins that appear on WC are exclusive for a set time may help. If not for all apps, then a requirement for apps made by Stardock.
I agree that the $20 for 2 years is a bargain. The more we can promote that fact and all it contains the more support we can get here. It is difficult to convert people on the internet who are used to free, to start paying, but they will with the right reasons. It may not be in front of them enough the value to be found here.
Reply #52 Monday, July 28, 2003 4:20 PM
$20 a year is less than 6 cents a day. The entire Object Desktop suite is less than 14 cents a day.(initial cost, second year is less than 10 cents ) It would be difficult to find a better bargain(s). I consider the message board alone a valuable resource.
Reply #53 Monday, July 28, 2003 5:34 PM
Back then most of the WB skins were downloaded from Stardock with the rest being downloaded at Skinz.org. Granted I know that at that time there were not as many downloaders but, more downloaders of Stardock skins equates to more stardock paying customers which should be able to offset the cost of the website. If not then the “free” version of the Stardock products need more restrictions or a time limit. ( the competition is dead froggy and the fussers be d@med). Also I believe that the Current MB download limit per non customer need to be set at a number of downloads. For example many skins are only a few KB and 20 of them wouldn’t make 5 MB.
Also Stardock needs to realize that the skin library is a necessary evil for a company with as many skinnables as they have. NO Skin Library and Stardock Goes down the tubes. Before you say we could just use some other skin site as our library, no you couldn’t the immense amount of downloads would kill the site.
Caps on OD subscribers are unacceptable. These are the people that are signing your paychecks and they defiantly deserve the ability to download the skins for the products that they purchased from you. Caps on non-customers need to be set at a conservative amount and be called trial accounts or something of the sort.
This is a very simple supply and demand problem if the money supplied to stardock is not sufficient then the prices must go up. I purchased WB version 1.3 for $19.95 and then upgraded to OD for $34.95. Since then my base pay has increased considerably but the Stardock prices have not increased at all. I understand the purpose for the freeze in price but with the popularity of Stardocks products the price could be inched forward especially considering that most people are paying with plastic the difference between $19.95 and say $21.95 are not as crucial as when the person is paying with cash.
I am not in favor of a price increase but if it will close the yap of the bandwidth whiner then so be it. A couple dollar “ Cost of living” increase will probably not scare away many customers Also I might suggest a 1 yr subscription to WC at $11.00 or maybe $6.00 per 6 months. This strategy is used by many companies for subscription services.
One more idea, If upon purchase of OD or any stardock app there were a set amout of downloads from Wincustomize, then the option for say 2 or 3 dollars more unlimited downloads.
Random thoughts from TasT
Reply #54 Monday, July 28, 2003 6:11 PM
| #24 by Wizop Koasati - 7/27/2003 6:30:13 PM I don't see how a 250 meg cap will help. You said very few use that much, so how does that make a difference? |
250 is too much. I think it would be 'fair' to have a 50 Mb limit per week to browse and download skins, themes, etc.
But for the 'paid' option, as someone mentionned, it would be nice to have a 'one or two dollars per month' plan for two year. I'm sure almost anyone here can afford that - or at least its more acceptable (for the budget) than an one-time fee.
Reply #55 Monday, July 28, 2003 6:39 PM
It's probably important here to stress, particularly to those new to the site, that these 'limits' referred to are about TOTAL downloads, not a timed monthly limit/whatever.
The idea is to allow a fair and equitable 'free' access before a line in the sand is reached where-by a person's obvious 'interest' in the site's 'stuff' is such that it would be appropriate that actual reciprocal contribution is made.
It's also important to differentiate between the straight 'user' and the 'contributor', [or 'user-contributor'], where with the latter such limits need not apply.
OK, back to your regular scheduled program...
I passed the Jafo spell check!
Reply #58 Monday, July 28, 2003 8:29 PM
Perhaps to have a newest release (additions) section for subscribers and you nonsubscribers can download last months stuff?
Just a couple of thoughts.
Reply #59 Monday, July 28, 2003 9:10 PM
Reply #60 Monday, July 28, 2003 9:13 PM
The artist as well is and should be looking for more than kind comments.And they should be supported by those who can afford it.If you can't afford it leave some positive feedback and help on the boards with newbies.These prices for Stardock programs and subscription's/UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS from Brilliant artists,both on the skinning and programming level,are quite a bargain.A very good deal with lots to choose from 24/7/365.Soooooooo,,I'm gonna go runnin' thru the halls and corridors,nook's-n-crannies of Stardock/WinCustomize naked all night long,,and download a BUTT-LOAD of stuff!!
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Reply #41 Monday, July 28, 2003 5:47 AM