I never said that this is a direct rip, but that it was 100% based on Abracadabra and they are not identicals since we have different design technics.

The identity of the skins are the same, the concept of the frame is the same, the visual of the titlebar buttons is the same.

The skin was posted exactly because of that, because it was not a direct rip, but in the other hand, I also have the right of saying what I think and I can't believe on the alegations above.

 

 

 

I used to be a Professional Woodturner.
I would look endlessly through magazines for "turned shapes" and store them in my mental library.
Some months later while working on a project, I mentally drew upon those shapes incorporating them into the project at hand.
I never used the pictures in the magazines to visually copy from them, and never had them in my workshop.
I considered that not a copyright infringment, nor did anyone else.
I consider mOrphiums work to be much along the same lines as what I practiced in my shop, and in the end, only he knows what and how he did it.

Y'z Dock uses different code to Apple's OSX dock.
It's skinnable, so it looks nothing like Apple's OSX dock.
It's coder has been told, by lawyers acting on Apple's behalf, to stop coding it.

Why? Because he used the identity and design of the dock.
That skin might not be a graphic rip, but same principles apply here.
And when you consider that Abracadabra is a sold suite, people thinking of buying it might actually be dissuaded after seeing m0rphiums skin for free. It's essentially taking income away from Treetog, who does graphics for a living.

There's also a respect matter. The skins are so similar, most skinners approached with this would probably have removed it, as they look so alike, or at least chosen to discuss it maturely with the accusers. Instead, m0rphium chose to cry, and go spamming all the new WB uploads with unnaceptable comments regarding the matter.

[Message Edited]

treetog - but in the other hand, I also have the right of saying what I think

without a doubt

hippy - Y'z Dock uses different code to Apple's OSX dock. It's skinnable, so it looks nothing like Apple's OSX dock. It's coder has been told, by lawyers acting on Apple's behalf, to stop coding it. Why? Because he used the identity and design of the dock.

I would really like a link to the translated, or Japinese email the developer of YZ Dock was sent.

I would like to know what it is that Apple claims, exactly.
really really...

Who *owns* the GUI Concept, Identity and design?

There has to be more to it than that, anyone have a link to the email or something posted by the YZ Dock developer describing Apples claims?

The point is even if it's a complete coincidence they are the same design.  This puts it in the spotlight and a discussion was inevitable. Morphium blew his chance to resolve it by being a total asshole. That was his choice. Green skin gets no respect if only for that one reason.

 

Treetog i see what you mean on these two elements(titlebar design could easily be a random accident,the buttons i admit are a little too similar when used in combination with the titlebar)but really thats where the similarities end.We all emulate you to a certain degree.Your considered one of the premiere skinners.It's only natural that we incorporate techniques we see in the best work.This may be a case of not giving credit where credit is due or it could be a complete coincidince.Are two elements enough to warrant this kind of attention?100% based on abra?hmmmmm...more like 33% at best.

Dont know if morphium was an asshole or not,(think someone cleaned up the mess)if he was he should apologize to each one in dividually.I CAN understand how he must have felt tho.His point about this being partially because we are dealing with a premium skin is well taken.

I think people should be careful about the assertions they make.

I myself am not sure how I feel about the skin. I think it's very good quality just like I think the Abracadabra skin is of very good quality.

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different.

From my vantage point, I would say that the title bar was "inspired" by Abacadabra.

Treetog is one of my closest friends on thet Internet so as his friend, I have a strong sense of loyalty and I can understand why he feels the way he does.

But as an admin, I feel Morphium has been treated unfairly. If the whole skin seemed like a design copy of Abracadabra, even if the graphics themselves were created independently, I would understand more. But it's really the title bar that seems heavily influenced by Abracadabra and for that I think that we should all be careful before jumping on people.

Stardock's generally neutral when it comes to "the community". But you folks need to decide what kind of community you want it to be. Do you want to have some elitist hiearchy where the works of elder skinners are considered to be sacred and no skins may be made that look even similar to the original?

Because I would be very careful about such charges. Dangeruss and Mercury have both made a great number of skins that were heavily "inspired" by Kaleidoscope skins. They weren't rips.

So I'll say again to everyone reading this what I said to the Kaleidoscope people back then -- be wary of becoming too militant. Your best tool for enforcing your perceived rights is good will and reason.

My view, overall, is that Morphium's skin is probably too similar to a casual user and borders a bit on trade dress violation (the actual "law" that would be the foundation of anyone's objection). But I think the matter could have been handled a lot more civily. 

wisdom has spoken, without a doubt

...more like common sense.

Well hopefully he returns and very hopefully the people who take it upon themdself to flame others when their comments will do no good will realise that and just give sensible helpfull gestures.

Certainly mOrpheum could have handled his response better, but I think he's just a kid and has done some good skins previously. Since he did not rip the skin (and no one else can really be 100% certain that he was intentionally copying another's top bar---belief does not a fact make) and the skin isn't a copy, he got mad when he was accused of ripping and his skin was removed without, evidently, close scrutiny.

So is the skin judged not only on the top bar's similarity (and still it is not identitcal) to another skin, but because of his response to the events? He reacted badly so it's ok to dog him about ripping?

So from now on no one can use a similar top bar in a skin? And be careful of the buttons as well? Taken as a guide, that one must not have a style concept similar to another's in some portion of a skin, apply it to all pre-existing skins and it will be a very rare new skin that could not be accused of ripping.

#30 by White_Moth - 6/29/2003 3:51:02 PM ...more like common sense

exactly


wisdom .n. knowledge; insight, common sense; opinion; reason, words of wisdom

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different.

And that is coming from THE MAN... not a rip. I don't think it is a rip either BTW.

keeping the context intact

It is not a rip. The only similarities between the two skins are in the title bar. Just the title bar. The scrollbars, push buttons, start bar, radio buttons, etc. are all completley different. From my vantage point, I would say that the title bar was "inspired" by Abacadabra

Sorry IP, my bad...

sig101....re #32....I scrutinized the skins extremely closely and at great length. My conclusion resulted in m0rphium's work being made public again ofter initial withdrawal.

**********************

If one took on face value m0rphium's claim that he had never seen Abracadabra to be influenced by it, then that, along with the STRONG dissimilarities meant we were obliged to do so.

If, however, this claim was found to be a little short of the truth then the work would/could be seen in a different light.

What transpired was a number of people took offense to the alleged coincidental similarity and said so.

I, as a site admin, was not overly impressed with some of the accusatory comment, but conversely I was also less than happy about m0rphium's responses when the skin was first withdrawn.  Posting 'WHERE THE F**K IS MY SKIN?' on every new WB skin in the list was not appropriate, particularly considering dialogue had already been opened to him privately via email.

His subsequent departure is testimony to one of two scenarios.....either maintaining the stance of 'innocent coincidence' perhaps fallaciously was proving too difficult,

or,

He was compelled to depart through what may have been an unwarranted attack on his reputation and person.

Personally I'm willing to imagine that m0rphium DID get quite distant inspiration from a prior skin, not a 'rip' as such and, had he perhaps understood that people would be likely to take umbrage with that, he could have approached the original artist for 'permission' for the inspiration, stated such in its comments and nipped it all in the bud.

Officially, we all, as members of the skinning community are going to have to take a close look at what, how and why we do/respond to issues such as this.

As more and more works are created, chances increase for both unhappy coincidences and historical inspiration.  Their handling needs to be 'with care'...

He was compelled to depart through what may have been an unwarranted attack on his reputation and person.

i have been attacked and put down but with a grain of salt i am still here..

of couse, you are right Paul...

But as an admin, I feel Morphium has been treated unfairly.

Your argument may or may not be valid, but please read what Hippy wrote, Brad. If there is anything like the benefit of the doubt then he used up the doubt by his actions.

And yes, I do agree with #37.