The full deck...
Tuesday, April 15, 2003 by goodmorphing | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2003/pipc10042003.html
In case that link did not work, http://groups.msn.com/morphingpuppycom/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=22
I was thinking about Tariq Aziz (8 of spades)... It is hard to fathom someone getting an audience with the pope, talking to the United Nations one day and finding their face on a deck of cards featuring America's most wanted the next.
go figure....
In case that link did not work, http://groups.msn.com/morphingpuppycom/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=22
I was thinking about Tariq Aziz (8 of spades)... It is hard to fathom someone getting an audience with the pope, talking to the United Nations one day and finding their face on a deck of cards featuring America's most wanted the next. go figure....
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bakerstreet
Reply #22 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:17 PM
Reply #22 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:17 PM
I worked in corporate security for about ten years, and you don't know the number of times I got memos saying:
"Joe Blow was terminated and escorted off the premisis yesterday. He made threats on several employees, and his ex-wife works here as well. Don't allow him access to the property."
The kicker? They forget to confiscate Mr. Blow's photo ID, access card and seem to have overlooked keeping any photographic record of the gentleman. We probably had that happen once a week. The next day you watch the poor lobby guard stand there with a frantic look on his face as 1000 workers file past him; half of them with menacing dufflebags. I can't imagine trying to sort out people in Iraq...
I stopped a guy once and sent him all the way home for his ID. Ended up being a Congressman's son and a full partner law firm on the 10th floor...
"Joe Blow was terminated and escorted off the premisis yesterday. He made threats on several employees, and his ex-wife works here as well. Don't allow him access to the property."
The kicker? They forget to confiscate Mr. Blow's photo ID, access card and seem to have overlooked keeping any photographic record of the gentleman. We probably had that happen once a week. The next day you watch the poor lobby guard stand there with a frantic look on his face as 1000 workers file past him; half of them with menacing dufflebags. I can't imagine trying to sort out people in Iraq...
I stopped a guy once and sent him all the way home for his ID. Ended up being a Congressman's son and a full partner law firm on the 10th floor...
bakerstreet
Reply #23 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:19 PM
Reply #23 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:19 PM
'...full partner of the law firm...'
i swear words just disappear...
i swear words just disappear...
Jafo
Reply #24 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:21 PM
Reply #24 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:21 PM
Yeah, right....you just forget to type them, I know...
sig101
Reply #25 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:23 PM
Reply #25 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:23 PM
Wombat, yeah I recall a bit about Operation Phoenix and the card thing. But that's not analogous to the spotter cards. The card trick in VN as I recall (IIRC) was more akin to the Mafia leaving their own special type of "calling card" when they do a hit, as perhaps a boast and certainly a warning to others.
As for hearts & minds and tactlessness, bombast and tastelessness in presentation in the Middle East isn't limited to the US and its forces. (And a lot of the press info the US wants out there and the manner of presentation I suspect is precisely and intentionally aimed to the other gov'ts in the area. Subtle they don't want to be.) The Iraqi people themselves are probably quite familiar with that sort of broad rather clumsy PR/propaganda stuff, given the rhetoric of the regime they had for over 30 years. (I mean, it's not as if they lacked for pictures and statues of their fearless leader. And now they're tossing shoes at them.)
I rather suspect the average Iraqi might not take perhaps all *that* much offense to cards depicting wanted members of a regime in which they had no real vested personal interest, given the other far more pressing matters that are likely on his/her mind. The cards (and likely the posters/handouts they'll have available for the public) are considerably more subtle in contrast to the damages, injuries and deaths resulting from the war as well the conditions present in some areas where there's a lack of electricity, clean water, medical care, law and order, etc. That is, there's plenty around to take offense to if the Iraqi people are so inclined and I myself doubt the cards themselves are really high on the list. JMO.
Now, if they had "Saddam Wanted" oven mitts or "Have you seen this Iraqi dog?" BBQ aprons or throw pillows that might be a tad tacky.
As for hearts & minds and tactlessness, bombast and tastelessness in presentation in the Middle East isn't limited to the US and its forces. (And a lot of the press info the US wants out there and the manner of presentation I suspect is precisely and intentionally aimed to the other gov'ts in the area. Subtle they don't want to be.) The Iraqi people themselves are probably quite familiar with that sort of broad rather clumsy PR/propaganda stuff, given the rhetoric of the regime they had for over 30 years. (I mean, it's not as if they lacked for pictures and statues of their fearless leader. And now they're tossing shoes at them.)
I rather suspect the average Iraqi might not take perhaps all *that* much offense to cards depicting wanted members of a regime in which they had no real vested personal interest, given the other far more pressing matters that are likely on his/her mind. The cards (and likely the posters/handouts they'll have available for the public) are considerably more subtle in contrast to the damages, injuries and deaths resulting from the war as well the conditions present in some areas where there's a lack of electricity, clean water, medical care, law and order, etc. That is, there's plenty around to take offense to if the Iraqi people are so inclined and I myself doubt the cards themselves are really high on the list. JMO.
Now, if they had "Saddam Wanted" oven mitts or "Have you seen this Iraqi dog?" BBQ aprons or throw pillows that might be a tad tacky.
Bangkokboy
Reply #26 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:37 PM
Reply #26 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:37 PM
bkb ponders the magnitude of offensiveness that a man must attain in order to get the aussies to label him as a pest! 
bakerstreet
Reply #28 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:40 PM
I want a "Have you seen this Iraqi dog?" BBQ apron
Reply #28 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:40 PM
I want a "Have you seen this Iraqi dog?" BBQ apron
Jafo
Reply #29 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:48 PM
Reply #29 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:48 PM
BKB...he single-handedly interrupted a soccer match at a pivotal time, eliminating Australia from the World Cup.
What's his name...Hutchense, from INXS....crashed his funeral.......the Melbourne Cup race....endangered horses and jockeys.
I personally would gladly have sat on him hard...
What's his name...Hutchense, from INXS....crashed his funeral.......the Melbourne Cup race....endangered horses and jockeys.
I personally would gladly have sat on him hard...
Bangkokboy
Reply #30 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 6:18 PM
Reply #30 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 6:18 PM
bkb can neither confirm nor deny the following.
the phoenix cards were a message directed to as yet undetected south vietnamese government and military personnel who were spying for the viet cong and passing them critical tactical information. intel was passed to people individually instead of in groups, and subtle differences were buried in the data. viet cong communications were monitored secretly, repeatedly crosschecked, and it would soon become very obvious whose hands leaked the "marked" info to the vc. when a communist mole failed to show for work, and was subsequently found in bed with a bullet hole between the eyes and a phoenix card in his mouth, word spread like wildfire among the other spies. viet cong effectiveness and morale plunged dramatically in the central highlands when their info sources dried up. the vc regained their effectiveness when the u.s. congress investigated and closed down operation phoenix due to its controversial nature. it's completely legal to execute spies behind your lines in time of warfare in the presence of concrete proof, but the op phoenix folks were alleged to be keeping the south vietnamese government completely out of the loop.
the phoenix cards were a message directed to as yet undetected south vietnamese government and military personnel who were spying for the viet cong and passing them critical tactical information. intel was passed to people individually instead of in groups, and subtle differences were buried in the data. viet cong communications were monitored secretly, repeatedly crosschecked, and it would soon become very obvious whose hands leaked the "marked" info to the vc. when a communist mole failed to show for work, and was subsequently found in bed with a bullet hole between the eyes and a phoenix card in his mouth, word spread like wildfire among the other spies. viet cong effectiveness and morale plunged dramatically in the central highlands when their info sources dried up. the vc regained their effectiveness when the u.s. congress investigated and closed down operation phoenix due to its controversial nature. it's completely legal to execute spies behind your lines in time of warfare in the presence of concrete proof, but the op phoenix folks were alleged to be keeping the south vietnamese government completely out of the loop.
joetheblow
Reply #31 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:23 PM
Reply #31 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:23 PM
some Joe Blow huh bakerstreet...
I do not think the Pope eeing Aziz as something that legitimizes the state. Whn it comes to believes and forgiveness Aziz is a human being not to be judges and the fact that he represents other human beings and possibly a war that will kill allot of human beings, you pull up you boot straps a prepare to wade through the 'thick' of things in the hopes that it helps.
Not sure if Arifat has the respect of leaders worldwide. I think they just don't have as much respect for Ariel Shoron and therefor come to a conclusion.
The playing card are straight out of a movie much like the phrase 'axis of evil'. I am not surprised by the Aziz of Spades. Cards are fine, cards with a way to memorize the 'players' is fine. Using playing cards is rediculus.
Now Uno, there is a card game to use. Aziz could have been a skip card. Saddam would have been a Draw Four card. If your get Hussen you yell out UNO!!!
Maybe Connect Four or Yatzey. Oh I know, Dominos!!!
Sooo basically I don't think that was a good Idea
============
Iraqi Acres huh??? I suppose we should tell the Iraqis about that one... or maybe they already know? I guess the oil we stea... sell from the Iraqi oil well or the discount we get should pay for it.
What was the bill again... 100,000,000,000 dollars (USD)
I think, honestly, if there is a long lasting peace in the regine we all benifit. Well worth the 400 dollars each.
I do not think the Pope eeing Aziz as something that legitimizes the state. Whn it comes to believes and forgiveness Aziz is a human being not to be judges and the fact that he represents other human beings and possibly a war that will kill allot of human beings, you pull up you boot straps a prepare to wade through the 'thick' of things in the hopes that it helps.
Not sure if Arifat has the respect of leaders worldwide. I think they just don't have as much respect for Ariel Shoron and therefor come to a conclusion.
The playing card are straight out of a movie much like the phrase 'axis of evil'. I am not surprised by the Aziz of Spades. Cards are fine, cards with a way to memorize the 'players' is fine. Using playing cards is rediculus.
Now Uno, there is a card game to use. Aziz could have been a skip card. Saddam would have been a Draw Four card. If your get Hussen you yell out UNO!!!
Maybe Connect Four or Yatzey. Oh I know, Dominos!!!
Sooo basically I don't think that was a good Idea
============
Iraqi Acres huh??? I suppose we should tell the Iraqis about that one... or maybe they already know? I guess the oil we stea... sell from the Iraqi oil well or the discount we get should pay for it.
What was the bill again... 100,000,000,000 dollars (USD)
I think, honestly, if there is a long lasting peace in the regine we all benifit. Well worth the 400 dollars each.
joetheblow
Reply #32 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:26 PM
Reply #32 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 8:26 PM
eesing = seeing
believes = beliefs
regine = regime
Aziz = a$$
believes = beliefs
regine = regime
Aziz = a$$
goodmorphing
Reply #33 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:39 PM Things are changing so fast anymore it is almost scary... and the scary thing is that the changes are as much internal as external. Things I used to think I understood have gotten so complicated.
Reply #33 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 9:39 PM
Things are changing so fast anymore it is almost scary... and the scary thing is that the changes are as much internal as external. Things I used to think I understood have gotten so complicated.
LS_Boreas
Reply #34 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:18 PM
Reply #34 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:18 PM
C'mon Jafo - remember where you are? You don't want to sit on him hard. You want to skin him alive. 
wombat_1
Reply #35 Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:24 AM
Reply #35 Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:24 AM
One of the RoK units we worked with had a couple of troopies KIA in a very 'unfriendly' fashion.
I doubt if 'skinned alive' would be strictly accurate but a human skin draped over the razor wire sure tones down the neighbors .....
'Phoenix' was an interesting approach which should have been kept as a very 'Black' operation, scuppered by the usual internal leaks to the 'resonsible' media, if I remember correctly, the 'cards' were just a plain 'business card'.
The 'Ace of Spades' cards etc were an in-country unit-level innovation ..... and BTW, unheralded as usual, the Australians managed to pick up several upper echelon Iraqi officials (a busload I do believe!) without the aid of playing cars, dunny rolls, aprons or oven mitts!
All that aside, the average Iraqi is the one who needs to be won over, the Royal Marines (as usual) are doing a great job in the South and it's the kids who are the ones who respond first to any kindness, just as they are the ones who will be the key to the future of Iraqi relationships with the outside world.
Just because one might have the people in a 'squirrel-gripper' their hearts and minds will not follow...
I doubt if 'skinned alive' would be strictly accurate but a human skin draped over the razor wire sure tones down the neighbors .....
'Phoenix' was an interesting approach which should have been kept as a very 'Black' operation, scuppered by the usual internal leaks to the 'resonsible' media, if I remember correctly, the 'cards' were just a plain 'business card'.
The 'Ace of Spades' cards etc were an in-country unit-level innovation ..... and BTW, unheralded as usual, the Australians managed to pick up several upper echelon Iraqi officials (a busload I do believe!) without the aid of playing cars, dunny rolls, aprons or oven mitts!
All that aside, the average Iraqi is the one who needs to be won over, the Royal Marines (as usual) are doing a great job in the South and it's the kids who are the ones who respond first to any kindness, just as they are the ones who will be the key to the future of Iraqi relationships with the outside world.
Just because one might have the people in a 'squirrel-gripper' their hearts and minds will not follow...
moshi
Reply #36 Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:21 AM
Reply #36 Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:21 AM
Karmagirl, Bakerstreet:
defining pro-gun as white trash is the same thing as defing those that have different views on this war (about 70-80% of the population in nearly all countries of Europe and the whole world) as hippy conspiracy theoretics.
defining pro-gun as white trash is the same thing as defing those that have different views on this war (about 70-80% of the population in nearly all countries of Europe and the whole world) as hippy conspiracy theoretics.
joetheblow
Reply #37 Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:42 AM
Reply #37 Thursday, April 17, 2003 8:42 AM
80% of people is allot of people.
70% is too.
Can't we all just get allong?
Lets play a card game or something. I for one would love to play Uno!
70% is too.
Can't we all just get allong?
Lets play a card game or something. I for one would love to play Uno!
KarmaGirl
Reply #38 Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:29 AM
Reply #38 Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:29 AM
Moshi, so you are saying that it is Ok to make an offensive, (and, in my opinion, ignorant) comment because you heard someplace that somebody defined people who were anti-war as "hippy conspiracy theoretics"? I really don't understand your reasoning.
Somewhere around 50% of American households own guns. So, are you saying that 50% of the USA is white trash? So, if that is true- Less than 75% of the US is white. So, of those, 50% live below poverty and own guns. Very interesting. Didn't know that.
See, all this time I thought that it was our constitutional right to own arms. I didn't realize that exercising that right made me "white trash".
And, about the "hippy" comment- what's so bad about being a hippy?
Somewhere around 50% of American households own guns. So, are you saying that 50% of the USA is white trash? So, if that is true- Less than 75% of the US is white. So, of those, 50% live below poverty and own guns. Very interesting. Didn't know that.
See, all this time I thought that it was our constitutional right to own arms. I didn't realize that exercising that right made me "white trash".
And, about the "hippy" comment- what's so bad about being a hippy?
werewolf
Reply #39 Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:47 AM
Reply #39 Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:47 AM
didn't read the hippy comment, but..yeah, what's so bad about hippies? 
KarmaGirl
Reply #40 Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:08 AM
Reply #40 Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:08 AM
I agree, Werewolf! These Birkenstocks are mighty comfortable!
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Reply #21 Wednesday, April 16, 2003 5:02 PM
He was discovered 'casing' the joint one day, but was excluded from entry the next.
Pity...we officials have responsibility for the track, over and above the Police [they must be invited onto the circuit], and the Chief Commissioner had granted us 'any force necessary to take him down'....he'd sort out the paperwork later...