Users should not have to disable 3rd-party AV programs.... or anything else 3rd-party to get a major update.  That's just wrong and MS needs to fix it before it alienates even more users.

No, not out of the box it doesn't.  However, one can get 10 working reasonably well when using 3rd-party programs to adjust it to suit one's personal preferences and needs.  I use Win 10 pretty much the same way as I did Win 7, now that I've gotten rid of/disabled all the app crap and tiles bloatware.

How and what would you recommend going about this.

Check out majorgeeks.com >left-hand side menu > System Tools > Windows 10.  That's where I went to find what I needed.

 Good Morning everyone,

Here is the latest from the Windows Insider Program.  I am not sure if the links will work but at least this will give you an idea of where they are headed.  I already see some things I plan to live without.  Tomorrow, Wednesday, Oct 26th at 10:00 am, there is a big meeting in NYC.  It will be broadcast live on Ars Technica and some other sites if anyone is interested.  Pardon the messy table.

Ho hum....

*no offense*

Unless there is something that benefits me on the desktop -in other words, not app related - I'm not interested.

All this latest and greatest mod-con gear might be great and useful for some, but simply, I have no need of apps, personal assistants or tiled interfaces.  I just want a plain and simple OS without the bells and whistles that bloat Windows editions of today.  If I want extras I'll look toward 3rd-party software for those items.

As with Windows 8/8.1 (once the novelty of apps had worn off) I use Win 10 solely as a desktop system, having uninstalled or disabled the apps and other less desirable features.  Sadly, however, my efforts to make Win 10 my own may be short lived. 

I believe, along with many others, that Window 10 will become MS's version of a walled Garden, a closed system that will largely be driven by apps and controlled by Microsoft from top to bottom.  That is not the kind of Windows I want any part of, and then there's the rumoured subscription model which, if Microsoft follows the lead of many of its major partners, as it did with Office 368, Windows subscriptions will more likely be a reality than not.

Nah, that's not my idea of an OS, not by a long shot.  

Well, then don't whine if crap happens.  AND crap happened here from the last update.  The crap was so serious that my PC could not be restored.  It will need to be completely reformatted and put back to Windows 7 as the drivers are too old. They keep messing with video drivers and the update made the display a lovely prison motif with horizontal black and white lines.  It is almost five years old so not putting any money into it at this point. It was a great computer until Windows 10 came out.  Since my grandson is becoming Microsoft certified (15 years old), I am going to give it to him.  He will have fun with it and restore it back to Windows 7. 

Starkers, I have very serious concerns about what I am seeing with Windows 10 which was my reason for the post. I am now running a new Dell XPS 8910 which is very nice although I will upgrade the video card in a bit. It comes with an NVidia GTX 750ti which isn't horrible but I would like something a bit better.  A 1070 would work well. 

For the moment, I am stuck with Windows 10 Home which is horrible as they up and download Microsoft updates while one is installing other software - after I checked and it said the system was up to date.  It caused this brand new PC to crash so I had to reset it and reinstall everything.  That was four hours after I got it home.  I keep telling them and jumping up and down about some issues but apparently, they are using Microsoft hearing aids because they clearly do not hear me.  I will be upgrading to Windows 10 Pro again asap. 

IF Windows goes subscription, I will go to Linux.  I have now spent more time on Windows 10 than I did in the whole time I had Windows ME which was awful but Windows 10 has been a trip.  Part of it was due to the fact that Dell did not update the drivers but when Windows 10 came out, there was nothing on their web site about it and I checked to make sure my drivers were up to date.  Besides, they "upgraded" me automatically so not much choice.  The first thing I installed on this new system was Start 10.  I cannot stand the regular Windows start menu.  It's ugly and looks a bit schizophrenic to me.  I like neatness and order.    Anyway, my new PC is up and running with only a couple tweaks left to do and Windows 10 keeps going on and on and on.  I would much rather have paid for complete OS than the mess they've created and I am seeing more and more ads, etc.  I sure hope they don't make it ad supported because would be the end for me.   

Anyone who volunteered into the "Insider Program" [read "Suckers-R-Us Guinea-pigs"]  deserves all the grief they get.

The general Win 10 user is enough of a Beta tester where bugs are stomped in the wild without anyone really having to be that masochistic enough to want to go all 'pre-alpha' and die horrible deaths at random....

OK, so one of the systems of mine hosed by Win 10 was probably an early release but the other was a fair-dinkum Joe-Public one.

End Users should not be put in a position where they need to reset the BIOS AND reinstall from scratch just because MS is now run by idiots.

Put bluntly, Windows 10 has been a disaster from the start for waaay too many users.... whether they're 'Insiders' or not, with 'forced' Updates being the major source of problems for most.  I've lost count of the people who have said that Windows Update has broken this or that driver and/or piece of hardware.... even the entire PC. 

After the last update I find yet again that MS has borked my HP keyboard and Logitech mouse with driver updates for a MS keyboard and mouse, neither of which are connected and never have been.  I managed to get the mouse working again but the keyboard is stuffed and I'm having to use the onboard touch one to type everything 'til I dig out a replacement.  Nothing I've tried will get it working again, including uninstalling the updates. 

Thing is, I have regular updates disabled so I can select the ones in need/want, and I disconnect the internet to prevent Scheduled Maintenance downloading updates at 3.00am, yet MS still finds a way to deliver them.  I'm told that preventing Scheduled Maintenance does not work because they commence at the next reboot and net connection.  In other words, then, there is no escaping dodgy updates.  Hopefully a 3rd party is working on closing that backdoor and a solution is not far away.

Seriously, though, people complained when Steve Ballmer was at the helm, but there's a worse lunatic running the asylum now.... and Windows 10 is the devil's spawn.  I may be more tolerant of Win 10 since tweaking it more to my liking, but it is still a far cry from what I really want and need, given the 'updates' debacle and MS' insistence to deliver a 'one-size-fits-all', whether it is needed or not.  The fact that I keep getting drivers and firmware for hardware I don't even have is proof MS has no idea what it is doing.

In a nutshell, a better tolerance [after 3rd party adjustments] does not mean I'm entirely happy with Win 10.  Quite the opposite, in fact!  Without the 3rd party adjustments it'd be the same pig it was at the start.

sometimes it's the security companies dragging their feet. eg.. firefox 64 bit...  "software isn't released yet... we don't provide support for it" "at least tell me you are actually working to make sure it's going to be compatible before it's released? it's not like they were not in open beta and had provided a roadmap as to when the stable version will be released"

===

your kb/mouse thing sounds weird.. my kb and mouse are both from logitech. i have setpoint installed (for the kb) and options for the mouse.. have never had ms screwing up my kb/mouse drivers.

i'm not even sure when it last updated drivers all by itself ..

 I don't have troubles with the Logitich mouse, that's working just fine.  My problem is with the Bluetooth keyboard that came with my HP 2-in-one.  I had the issue before but was able to find, uninstall and hide the update that disabled it.  However, the most recent update was delivered via Scheduled Maintenance and I had no way of intercepting it, and even though I uninstalled the Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse Centre and drivers that I didn't even need, being the previous culprit, my HP keyboard is still buggered.

I may have to go in and do a system restore to before the most recent round of updates to get the keyboard working again, then reload the updates one at a time until I discover which one's still preventing it from operating.  Still, this is not something I should have to do.  I don't have any Microsoft hardware connected to the 2-in-1, meaning I don't need the drivers or firmware, yet I've had to uninstall them/it 4 times now after 'update' buggered things up.

(misread) does your kb have drivers (from hp)? try loading latest of those maybe? or does it still get overwritten after regularly because ms for whatever reason thinks it doesn't have proper drivers and dump their load in?

Starkers, don't you understand that MS knows much better than you do what you need and what is good for you. You just need to stop resisting and life will be so much more simpler for you.

Still on 7, but have been thinking of moving to 10 for gaming improvements like DX 12

What ! just to run made for windows software in wine

Back on topic:

Add me to lightstar's comment.

Win 7 is pretty good if a little bloated after the numerous updates over the years ,win 10 did become more usable after classic shell was installed,however the OS still annoys me

Yes, the keyboard has HP drivers and it worked without issue until MS stuck its unwelcome nose in. 

Thing is, the keyboard worked well for several weeks because I was able the prevent the regular 'update' and hide it.  However, this latest 'update' was delivered via Scheduled Maintenance, which cannot be hidden or intercepted because it is delivered silently.  This time, though, I don't think it is Microsoft drivers or the Mouse and Keyboard Centre. 

I uninstalled all that and still no go with the keyboard..  I also tried another Bluetooth keyboard I have and it won't work, either.  I therefore suspect MS has delivered its own version of Bluetooth drivers, and this is what is causing things not to work.  Even transferring files via Bluetoth is now non-functional, so MS has messed thing up yet AGAIN.

Yes, in its 'wisdom' [if such a term can be used when speaking of Microsoft], MS has decided a one-size-fits-all policy is best.... and whether you need it or not it's a case of 'open wide cos we're gonna ram t down your throat, like it or not'. 

As I recall, a one-size-fits-all didn't work too well in the footwear industry, and the fashion industry gave it up as a bad joke, so why does MS think it has the answers for everyone's PC.  Not everyone uses MS hardware, so why does MS see fit to deliver drivers for non-existent hardware.?  Also, when users already have Nvidia, AMD and other drivers installed for the relevant hardware, why does MS still insist in delivering its own, inferior versions?  And does Microsoft really have partners?  Or are they subservient companies doing MS's bidding?

I recall the debacle when MS announced that Intel's new Skylake processors would not work with OSes prior to Win 10... in its bid to fob more versions of the OS onto more unwilling customers.  Thankfully, Intel saw sense and realised that it would shrink the available market, so vehemently opposed the move.

Sometimes, corporations become to big and powerful for the good of the buying public, and when there is little or no viable opposition, as in the case of OSes, they have a captive market... which all too often they treat as they wish, with little or no regard. 

Sadly, Microsoft has become one of those 'bugger the consumer' companies and has embarked on a trajectory of 'we know what's best for everyone... and they're going to get it, come hell or high water'.

There was a time when I felt Apple was the worse computer tech company on the planet, with its walled garden and user control policies, but Microsoft has rapidly caught up and will soon surpass Apple as being the worst PC tech company on the planet.  MS might capture the imaginations and accounts of the yuppy set and trendy geeks, but its plans for its own walled garden and an OS subscription model will alienate older users and more.  And for those who don't believe MS will go to subscription models, what do you think the Office 360 experiment was all about?  It was testing the waters, plain and simple!  Sadly, trendies and the yuppy set helped make 360 a success, therefore paving the way to subscription OSes.... Windows 10 up for rent.

The world is moving in some alarming directions: corporations bullying customers; Russia again flexing its political and military muscle; Trump behaving as badly and worse; the Middle East again becoming the melting pot for worldwide conflict, and Microsoft behaving like past dictators.  Though dying isn't something I consider as being an answer to anything, when I look at the state of the world as compared to when I was a lad, I'm glad my time on the planet is drawing to a close rather than just beginning. 

Were I a young newlywed in this day and age, there's no way on Earth I'd contemplate having kids, given everything is going to hell in a hand-basket faster than greased lightning buttered on both sides.  It's great having grandkids, but I do worry about them, given the way the world in general is going, and how they will be affected by those who only think they know best.... and yes, Microsoft HAS contributed to that uncertain world.  it may have been inadvertent, but Microsoft's clamour for power in the tech world has also changed things for the worst.

Hi Starkers and Everyone, I have been saying the same thing.  Microsoft does what they want and they do not care what their users want - and I've told them exactly that in no uncertain terms.  After all, they do keep telling me how important our feedback is.  Well, they got mine! 

My new Dell XPS 8910 is working well but I did need to get their support involved as Microsoft decided to set the bios for Deep Sleep mode which means you cannot bring the system out of sleep mode using a keyboard or mouse.  I ran every update available in Device Manager including a bios update with no luck solving the issue.  Changing power settings didn't fix it either so I brought in Dell Support because the system is brand new and I wanted them make it work correctly.  That way if there were any additional problems I would to be able to return it.  It is always best to cover one's butt. 

I have to say they did an excellent job and I learned something.  Even though I ran EVERY update available via Device Manager, Dell Support came up with an additional bios update and an additional video update.  Microsoft only shows the recommended updates, not all of them.  Geesh!  Once we flashed the bios and updated the video driver again, I disabled deep sleep (S4, S5) and enabled S3 which allows the computer to come out of sleep mode using a keyboard or mouse.  The new computer is working perfectly now so I am happy but personally I don't see why Microsoft would set the bios that way in the first place unless they cannot distinguish between a cell phone, laptop or a desktop computer. Their one shoe fits all does not and will never work. 

I don't remember if I posted this part before but my grandson, Noah, is 15 now and taller than me. Not sure what happened as he was only little a few months ago.  He is in high school now and preparing to become Microsoft certified.  I gave him my old computer and he is going to restore it to Windows 7.  That will be his class project and his teacher is excited too.  Seeing my grandson so happy and excited was worth the price of the new computer. 

As for the Windows Insider program, I am not on the fast track.  The problem is that they don't tell anyone what the updates do and I have jumped up and down and yelled as loudly as I can about that. Many others are screaming too and a lot of people have had major problems with the updates.  I am going to fix that issue here in the next day or so.  That way I can check all of the updates before I allow them to be installed on my computer. For now, all is well. 

I have no issues with Windows 10. Running it on a new HP computer that's a few months old. I disabled or uninstalled all the apps that came with the system, I do not use them. Seems to run OK. No issues with updates. 

i guess some people were/are lucky lol , i so far haven't had any trouble but i just don't like windows 10

I wasn't so lucky. MS fraggled mine system prompting a re-install. I did take the Doc's advice though and roll back. Now its normally fraggled.