US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
opps
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craeonics
Reply #1322 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:04 AM
Reply #1322 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:04 AM
Girl was playing Army to pay for her college. Or that could be an other girl. Or in other words, it's a job like any other, with some twists.
And go Thibaud!
Just because France has a) interests in Iraq and
opposes the war (or more precisely: it opposes (or opposed) it because it thinks it's too soon to take that route right now) does not mean that France is trying to keep Saddam firmly seated in order to protect those interests.
It would be along the same lines to say that the US has (potential) interests in Iraq as well, but finds itself thwarted by Saddam thus has to remove him in order to protect said interests.
And go Thibaud!
Just because France has a) interests in Iraq and
opposes the war (or more precisely: it opposes (or opposed) it because it thinks it's too soon to take that route right now) does not mean that France is trying to keep Saddam firmly seated in order to protect those interests.It would be along the same lines to say that the US has (potential) interests in Iraq as well, but finds itself thwarted by Saddam thus has to remove him in order to protect said interests.
bakerstreet
Reply #1323 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:07 AM
Reply #1323 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:07 AM
Thibaud: The 30 year reference was to the occasional 'The US sold WMD to Iraq" comments that appear. To be frank, I don't like Dick Cheney. I didn't like him as a choice for a running mate and I don't like him as a vice president. I don't think G.B. would have been allowed to run without him, though. To be honest I could make a fairly long list of people I would rather have than G.B. in the office of President.
I can't vouch for Halliburton's business practices either. Usually when they get caught in something it ends up being a 'subsidiary' they recently liquidated. I dunno. I have two main concerns for this war. Is removing Hussein something that will better Iraq and the world as a whole, and is anyone taking advantage of the Iraqi people in the process?
Considering the contracts for rebuilding Iraq are gonna be paid by US tax dollars, or UN, or whatever they decide, I can't say the Iraqi people would be harmed, no matter the subcontractor shenanigans. There will be a great deal of work done to rebuild their nation. I don't have any doubt in my mind that the world will be a better place without Hussein.
I agree that many more countries have deals with Iraq, but the most-vocal of the anti-war crowd have the biggest deals, and that is way too much of a coincidence to me. I believe that they aren't pro-peace, they just don't want to lose their lucrative business deals.
As I said before, all Saddam Hussein needs is to be left in power. Preventing this war would have given him that. That was my point. I don't have any hard feelings against you. I respect your opinion. This is just talk.
I can't vouch for Halliburton's business practices either. Usually when they get caught in something it ends up being a 'subsidiary' they recently liquidated. I dunno. I have two main concerns for this war. Is removing Hussein something that will better Iraq and the world as a whole, and is anyone taking advantage of the Iraqi people in the process?
Considering the contracts for rebuilding Iraq are gonna be paid by US tax dollars, or UN, or whatever they decide, I can't say the Iraqi people would be harmed, no matter the subcontractor shenanigans. There will be a great deal of work done to rebuild their nation. I don't have any doubt in my mind that the world will be a better place without Hussein.
I agree that many more countries have deals with Iraq, but the most-vocal of the anti-war crowd have the biggest deals, and that is way too much of a coincidence to me. I believe that they aren't pro-peace, they just don't want to lose their lucrative business deals.
As I said before, all Saddam Hussein needs is to be left in power. Preventing this war would have given him that. That was my point. I don't have any hard feelings against you. I respect your opinion. This is just talk.
moshi
Reply #1324 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:12 AM
Reply #1324 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:12 AM
and now everybody will post that the US gets it´s oil from Southern America, from the Gulf of Mexico and Alaska.
it´s far too complicated to understand that the US have an interested in controlling the oil resources of other countries as well ... so stop being so logic ...
it´s far too complicated to understand that the US have an interested in controlling the oil resources of other countries as well ... so stop being so logic ...
bakerstreet
Reply #1326 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:15 AM
Reply #1326 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:15 AM
moshi: Hard to make the argument that we are gonna control the oil. The UN controls the oil program for Iraq until they control it for themselves. I doubt seriously that after recent events you can make the argument that we can control the UN.
paxx
Reply #1327 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:16 AM
Reply #1327 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:16 AM
Totology...
Apples are sweet.
Candies are sweet.
Thereore apples are candies.
Apples are sweet.
Candies are sweet.
Thereore apples are candies.
craeonics
Reply #1328 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:16 AM
Reply #1328 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:16 AM
Who? Me? I think your poking the wrong guy. Baker is over there. craeonics points across the Atlantic
bakerstreet
Reply #1329 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:23 AM
Reply #1329 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:23 AM
you wanna see a paradox of eeeevil? I mean far beyond Hussein.
I am trying to decide if this is definate proof that evil exists, or if it is definate proof there is a God. I'm leaning toward evil, no doubt if I were in his shoes I would feel completely different. Look at the happy newlyweds:
http://home.introcom.net/~sidney/tyler/images/langdon/with-roy-34.jpg
*sniff* where's my black armband...
I am trying to decide if this is definate proof that evil exists, or if it is definate proof there is a God. I'm leaning toward evil, no doubt if I were in his shoes I would feel completely different. Look at the happy newlyweds:
http://home.introcom.net/~sidney/tyler/images/langdon/with-roy-34.jpg
*sniff* where's my black armband...
moshi
Reply #1330 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:29 AM
Reply #1330 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:29 AM
crae: only said that nobody over there want´s to think that far. too complicated.
bakerstreet: so this war is about the camels if not for oil? ah wait: weapons of mass destruction and terrorists. always good to keep the public in fear, makes controlling easier. the neo-conservative posse in power needs their terrorists desperately. i always thought Iran will be next, but it will probably be Syria, as it seems there is not enough money to start war on Iran.
bakerstreet: so this war is about the camels if not for oil? ah wait: weapons of mass destruction and terrorists. always good to keep the public in fear, makes controlling easier. the neo-conservative posse in power needs their terrorists desperately. i always thought Iran will be next, but it will probably be Syria, as it seems there is not enough money to start war on Iran.
Thibaud
Reply #1331 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:33 AM
Reply #1331 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:33 AM
backerstreet,
i didn't take your comments wrong
What i think is that we don't know what's going on in a president's mind.
For ex, was it honest from Chirac saying that the war is not needed only because the UN process didn't ended (that's what the population think) or was it only because of france's interest ? I don't know.
Same goes for the US gvt : was it honest to say that irak is an urgent threat to the usa (i don't think it was the case) or involved into the 9/11 events, or even working hand-by-hand with Al-Qaeda, or was it only because of some other US interests in irak (us companies bids/irak as a usa place in the middle-east/oil etc..). I don't know either.
I don't like simple conclusions like "if they're going to war, it's only for that reason" or "if they don't want that war, it's because of.."
Populations in those anti-war countries were behind they govt. position, not because they automatically support their govt (I don't like mine for ex), but because of their own judgement about that war.
For ex, in Britain and Spain, population was against that war but the govt supported it : it could also be considered as a special interest for GB/Spain to go to war.
You see, interpretations are easy, finding facts/proof is easy as well, but since this war happened and is not finished, we won't have the real reasons why it happened or why some govt didn't want it to happen.
Maybe we'll get the real reasons (war/not war govt. position) far later after hussein will be defeated...or worst, maybe we'll never know.
i didn't take your comments wrong
What i think is that we don't know what's going on in a president's mind.
For ex, was it honest from Chirac saying that the war is not needed only because the UN process didn't ended (that's what the population think) or was it only because of france's interest ? I don't know.
Same goes for the US gvt : was it honest to say that irak is an urgent threat to the usa (i don't think it was the case) or involved into the 9/11 events, or even working hand-by-hand with Al-Qaeda, or was it only because of some other US interests in irak (us companies bids/irak as a usa place in the middle-east/oil etc..). I don't know either.
I don't like simple conclusions like "if they're going to war, it's only for that reason" or "if they don't want that war, it's because of.."
Populations in those anti-war countries were behind they govt. position, not because they automatically support their govt (I don't like mine for ex), but because of their own judgement about that war.
For ex, in Britain and Spain, population was against that war but the govt supported it : it could also be considered as a special interest for GB/Spain to go to war.
You see, interpretations are easy, finding facts/proof is easy as well, but since this war happened and is not finished, we won't have the real reasons why it happened or why some govt didn't want it to happen.
Maybe we'll get the real reasons (war/not war govt. position) far later after hussein will be defeated...or worst, maybe we'll never know.
bakerstreet
Reply #1332 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:40 AM
Reply #1332 Thursday, April 3, 2003 10:40 AM
moshi: "always good to keep the public in fear"'
that is exactly what posts like yours are intended to do. If you can't make your point about oil, make some spooky comment about how the eeeeevil US government is out to get the world. No problem here, we're smart enough to handle it. You say the US is out to take over the Middle East and I laugh at you. Sadly, many people who *live* in the Middle East just see it as another excuse to martyr themselves. I don't think anyone realizes yet the power that such haphazard propaganda has to harm others. Covers your butt when you can't think of anything else to say, though, I guess.
pffft.
I'm going to bed now, finally...
that is exactly what posts like yours are intended to do. If you can't make your point about oil, make some spooky comment about how the eeeeevil US government is out to get the world. No problem here, we're smart enough to handle it. You say the US is out to take over the Middle East and I laugh at you. Sadly, many people who *live* in the Middle East just see it as another excuse to martyr themselves. I don't think anyone realizes yet the power that such haphazard propaganda has to harm others. Covers your butt when you can't think of anything else to say, though, I guess.
pffft.
I'm going to bed now, finally...
paxx
Reply #1335 Thursday, April 3, 2003 11:19 AM
Reply #1335 Thursday, April 3, 2003 11:19 AM
Bakersreet, I know who she is, but who's the midget?
Xerraire
Reply #1336 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:16 PM
Reply #1336 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:16 PM
Aside from the oil and who controls it, here is a story that gives reason to one reason we are there, besides the so called oil: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83047,00.html
Evidence has been found in the Kurdish-controlled regions of northern Iraq that the Islamic militant group Ansar al-Islam was working on three types of chlorine gas and ricin and has ties to Al Qaeda, U.S. officials told Fox News.
Officials said that between 75 and 150 Al Qaeda members have been captured or killed in northern Iraq in recent days.
U.S. sources told Fox News that documents and equipment were found in the rubble of an Ansar facility that had been built into a cliff near Sargat. The material was described as "a cookbook and kitchen" for chemical weapons.
Evidence has been found in the Kurdish-controlled regions of northern Iraq that the Islamic militant group Ansar al-Islam was working on three types of chlorine gas and ricin and has ties to Al Qaeda, U.S. officials told Fox News.
Officials said that between 75 and 150 Al Qaeda members have been captured or killed in northern Iraq in recent days.
U.S. sources told Fox News that documents and equipment were found in the rubble of an Ansar facility that had been built into a cliff near Sargat. The material was described as "a cookbook and kitchen" for chemical weapons.
IPlural
Reply #1337 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:32 PM
Reply #1337 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:32 PM
bakerstreet,
#1315 by bakerstreet - 4/3/2003 5:12:51 AM
Crea: number 3 could also be stated as "France (and others) are protecting Saddam Hussein to protect their economic interests" Fact is, once the regime is gone, so are their agreements.
this was in response to the above.
#1316 by IPlural - 4/3/2003 7:57:55 AM
Well that won't work because they owe millions if not more to US corporations and Banks along with others from around the world. Ari balked and sputtered when asked about this same thing yesterday..
In fact he outright stated that the Iraqi people will have to pay all depts Saddam ran up. Also that they will have more than enough money from oil sales to do it.
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paxx that was what I was wondering also, the midget.
#1315 by bakerstreet - 4/3/2003 5:12:51 AM
Crea: number 3 could also be stated as "France (and others) are protecting Saddam Hussein to protect their economic interests" Fact is, once the regime is gone, so are their agreements.
this was in response to the above.
#1316 by IPlural - 4/3/2003 7:57:55 AM
Well that won't work because they owe millions if not more to US corporations and Banks along with others from around the world. Ari balked and sputtered when asked about this same thing yesterday..
In fact he outright stated that the Iraqi people will have to pay all depts Saddam ran up. Also that they will have more than enough money from oil sales to do it.
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paxx that was what I was wondering also, the midget.
IPlural
Reply #1339 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:36 PM
Reply #1339 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:36 PM
But I have also seen similar reports on CNN, MSNBC, CBC International the BBC, AP online.
@shu
Reply #1340 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:46 PM
Reply #1340 Thursday, April 3, 2003 12:46 PM
Talking about Afghanistan and Al Qaida, here are some articles that you SHOULD go through.
http://www.zmag.org/roycalam.htm
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/9-11/warispeace.htm
http://www.zmag.org/roycalam.htm
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/9-11/warispeace.htm
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Reply #1321 Thursday, April 3, 2003 9:58 AM
okay sorry you guys can continue your army talk now...