US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
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craeonics
Reply #1142 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:50 AM
Reply #1142 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:50 AM
Paxxy, it's easy. Your not being in favour of this war makes you pro Saddam in black/white land.
The reasoning is like this:
1. Saddam Hussein is evil
2. We are doing something about it
3. Not agreeing with that won't help us get rid of him
4. So therefore you support him
The reasoning is like this:
1. Saddam Hussein is evil
2. We are doing something about it
3. Not agreeing with that won't help us get rid of him
4. So therefore you support him
kona0197
Reply #1143 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:54 AM
Reply #1143 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:54 AM
In respone to the question in post 1130 I get my news from CNN, MSNBC, NBS, FoxNews, and UPN. Not that it matters.
kona0197
Reply #1144 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:58 AM
Reply #1144 Monday, March 31, 2003 2:58 AM
@ paxx...
FYI some of the things you say on the post (if not all) disturd me gretly. It almost sounds like you are bashing Americans and there actions. I respect everyones opionion about the war. I just don't like where your train of thought may be heading.
FYI some of the things you say on the post (if not all) disturd me gretly. It almost sounds like you are bashing Americans and there actions. I respect everyones opionion about the war. I just don't like where your train of thought may be heading.
Jafo
Reply #1145 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:00 AM
Reply #1145 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:00 AM
Crae...logic/reasoning like that....
Nothing is better than a Rolls Royce.
A bicycle is better than nothing.
Ergo...
A bicycle is better than a Rolls Royce...
Nothing is better than a Rolls Royce.
A bicycle is better than nothing.
Ergo...
A bicycle is better than a Rolls Royce...
kona0197
Reply #1146 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:02 AM
Reply #1146 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:02 AM
What are you talking about Jafo? What I said was not meant as a personel attack. What does bikes have to do with it?
joetheblow
Reply #1148 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:34 AM
Reply #1148 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:34 AM
what the.....
craeonics made a 'good' point. B/w world does not have colors. Not even shades of gray.
blah, blah, blah...
So inconclution, I believe that Jafo spell checking everyone is evil and therefore he is evil.
Done.
Where is my coffee.
craeonics made a 'good' point. B/w world does not have colors. Not even shades of gray.
blah, blah, blah...
So inconclution, I believe that Jafo spell checking everyone is evil and therefore he is evil.
Done.
Where is my coffee.
joetheblow
Reply #1149 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:35 AM
Reply #1149 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:35 AM
Fox news kona??? Is that the fair and balanced news station?
joetheblow
Reply #1150 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:44 AM
Reply #1150 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:44 AM
Jafo... I was joking...
or am I????
mooohahahaha
Oh and I am not to sure about the 'welcoming commitee' in Iraq either, but I here many news reports on allot of Iraqies welcoming them. Others are not sure. Saddam is the type to send people to make sure they don't welcome them so I would not put it past he.
We will see.
Week 3 starts on Thursday. I believe I will ahve most of my answers dueing week 3 of this conflict.
I also had an idea about the civilians and if there are people threating them and using them as shields. If the army gives them a beeper or something to call them if something is happening they can catch those in the act. Maybe the news crew will be with them?
or am I????
mooohahahaha
Oh and I am not to sure about the 'welcoming commitee' in Iraq either, but I here many news reports on allot of Iraqies welcoming them. Others are not sure. Saddam is the type to send people to make sure they don't welcome them so I would not put it past he.
We will see.
Week 3 starts on Thursday. I believe I will ahve most of my answers dueing week 3 of this conflict.
I also had an idea about the civilians and if there are people threating them and using them as shields. If the army gives them a beeper or something to call them if something is happening they can catch those in the act. Maybe the news crew will be with them?
craeonics
Reply #1151 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:58 AM
Reply #1151 Monday, March 31, 2003 3:58 AM
Some are welcoming them, others are not so happy and then there are those who find themselves without police and start looting (or are the victims of said looting) and are not that happy. Then there are those that blame the cut-off of the water supply on the Americans/Brits, while Iraq is responsible for that. Or in other words, chaos abounds. I think most will keep a low profile until it is certain the S-man is gone from their turf.
Jafo: hey, don't look at me, just explaining the binary mindset of those that have trouble with what Paxxy says.
Jafo: hey, don't look at me, just explaining the binary mindset of those that have trouble with what Paxxy says.
kona0197
Reply #1152 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:27 AM
Reply #1152 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:27 AM
Fox news kona???
Hey I don't watch fox news often, maybe a hour a week. They suck. I mostly watch my local news, thier sorces are CNN and MSNBC.
Hey I don't watch fox news often, maybe a hour a week. They suck. I mostly watch my local news, thier sorces are CNN and MSNBC.
kona0197
Reply #1153 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:29 AM
Reply #1153 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:29 AM
Most of time I am fixing or riding bikes. The war is in the back of my mind compared to ridding. Helps keep my mind on track. But I do feel for the troops and I dislike the anti-war protestors.
bakerstreet
Reply #1154 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:53 AM
Reply #1154 Monday, March 31, 2003 4:53 AM
Nah, it works out more like this.
1) Saddam Hussein need only to remain in power to victimize his people and threaten others outside his country. He has ample aid from anti-war Europe and Asia to resupply and rebuild, regardless of sanctions.
2) There is no way other than force to remove him from power.
3) Opposing the use of force is therefore supporting his position of power, which allows him to victimize his people and threaten others outside his country.
If anyone feels this isn't black and white, they are more than welcome to propose something that will protect both the Iraqi people and the rest of the world without the use of force. I don't think I'll hold my breath, because in over 1100 posts no one has been able to even address it seriously.
DavidK was the only one who tried and his grand scheme for improving the world was just a list of things the US could change about itself, and had little or nothing to do with Iraq.
**
In that spirit, my perspective from what creaonics calls 'black/white land':
In 'shades-of-grey land' you simply sit around waiting for the right US press conference, and then pretend like you care about peace for a month or so while you rant on messageboards. Afterward, regardless of the many other unjust conflicts raging around the world, you go about your day like nothing is wrong. The point really isn't *war* in 'shades-of-grey land', it's bashing American policy. If it weren't, ranting on messageboards about 'peace' would be a full time job.
1) Saddam Hussein need only to remain in power to victimize his people and threaten others outside his country. He has ample aid from anti-war Europe and Asia to resupply and rebuild, regardless of sanctions.
2) There is no way other than force to remove him from power.
3) Opposing the use of force is therefore supporting his position of power, which allows him to victimize his people and threaten others outside his country.
If anyone feels this isn't black and white, they are more than welcome to propose something that will protect both the Iraqi people and the rest of the world without the use of force. I don't think I'll hold my breath, because in over 1100 posts no one has been able to even address it seriously.
DavidK was the only one who tried and his grand scheme for improving the world was just a list of things the US could change about itself, and had little or nothing to do with Iraq.
**
In that spirit, my perspective from what creaonics calls 'black/white land':
In 'shades-of-grey land' you simply sit around waiting for the right US press conference, and then pretend like you care about peace for a month or so while you rant on messageboards. Afterward, regardless of the many other unjust conflicts raging around the world, you go about your day like nothing is wrong. The point really isn't *war* in 'shades-of-grey land', it's bashing American policy. If it weren't, ranting on messageboards about 'peace' would be a full time job.
paxx
Reply #1155 Monday, March 31, 2003 6:08 AM
Reply #1155 Monday, March 31, 2003 6:08 AM
Saddam is evil, or whatever that means. One thing for sure he is killing a lot of Irakis. I agree with that. I don't believe that he is a threat anymore to anybody else. On the other hand I do believe Syria is very dangerous.
So, does that mean that Irak has to be invaded by a foreign country to kill Saddam Hussein? Sure, if you think that Syria, Iran, Saoudi Arabia, and most of the other Arab and African countries also need to be invaded and have their leader removed. I agree that Saddam is a big SOB, but there are others like him.
OK, about the happy happy Iraki people. Every interview or report I see on TV (Canadian TV) shows that although Irakis are happy to get rid of Saddam, they react very strongly at having their own country bombed, especially when it's done by a "godless infidels". Irakis may be anti-Saddam, but they are all pro-Irak.
Sure, there are some that do not rebel against Saddam because they are afraid, but from what I heard, that can't account alone for the amount civil resistance the US/UK troops are finding. For a lot of them, it seems, it's like this: we are going to go from an Iraki tyran to having an American ruler.
As for the amount of victims, again it's no invention. From what I heard, city warfare is extremely bloody. The invading army has to expect to loose as much as 20 to 30% of its combatting troops in a city warfare context. Do the math, that means a lot of American and British casualties.
As for the other arab countries joining in. Again I'm not inventing it. Even Rumsfield is aware of the danger, so much that he officially warned Iran and Syria last week.
And finally, bakerstreet: I am certainly against any conflict around this planet. Just none get the media coverage like this one does. And besides, we criticize the most what we care about, don't we? I love the American people, I just hate their government's foreign policies.
So, does that mean that Irak has to be invaded by a foreign country to kill Saddam Hussein? Sure, if you think that Syria, Iran, Saoudi Arabia, and most of the other Arab and African countries also need to be invaded and have their leader removed. I agree that Saddam is a big SOB, but there are others like him.
OK, about the happy happy Iraki people. Every interview or report I see on TV (Canadian TV) shows that although Irakis are happy to get rid of Saddam, they react very strongly at having their own country bombed, especially when it's done by a "godless infidels". Irakis may be anti-Saddam, but they are all pro-Irak.
Sure, there are some that do not rebel against Saddam because they are afraid, but from what I heard, that can't account alone for the amount civil resistance the US/UK troops are finding. For a lot of them, it seems, it's like this: we are going to go from an Iraki tyran to having an American ruler.
As for the amount of victims, again it's no invention. From what I heard, city warfare is extremely bloody. The invading army has to expect to loose as much as 20 to 30% of its combatting troops in a city warfare context. Do the math, that means a lot of American and British casualties.
As for the other arab countries joining in. Again I'm not inventing it. Even Rumsfield is aware of the danger, so much that he officially warned Iran and Syria last week.
And finally, bakerstreet: I am certainly against any conflict around this planet. Just none get the media coverage like this one does. And besides, we criticize the most what we care about, don't we? I love the American people, I just hate their government's foreign policies.
Jafo
Reply #1156 Monday, March 31, 2003 6:53 AM
Reply #1156 Monday, March 31, 2003 6:53 AM
#1148
kona....get a grip.
I was referring to craeonics, not you or your preoccupation with bicycles.
Surprisingly, not all bike references are related to you....
kona....get a grip.
I was referring to craeonics, not you or your preoccupation with bicycles.
Surprisingly, not all bike references are related to you....
kona0197
Reply #1157 Monday, March 31, 2003 7:45 AM
Reply #1157 Monday, March 31, 2003 7:45 AM
didn't say they were. Thanks for yelling at me, all is well again. I do not have a preoccupation with bicycles, it is just that they keep a roof over my head.
craeonics
Reply #1158 Monday, March 31, 2003 7:53 AM
Reply #1158 Monday, March 31, 2003 7:53 AM
The point is questioning the stated motives. But ofcourse in black/white-land (which, by the way does not refer to a geographical location, but a frame of mind) anyone that is a) foreign and 
questions these motives is an anti-american extreme leftist history revisionist communist bastard who should be gratefull for everything the US ever did, but instead supports Saddam?
Umm, hello?
Since when did it become accepted behaviour to "ridicule" anyone who does not agree with you? ("ridicule" not being the exact word I am looking for)
What's next? Burning at the stake? Or the asylum?
Oh, and kona: bike!
questions these motives is an anti-american extreme leftist history revisionist communist bastard who should be gratefull for everything the US ever did, but instead supports Saddam?Umm, hello?
Since when did it become accepted behaviour to "ridicule" anyone who does not agree with you? ("ridicule" not being the exact word I am looking for)
What's next? Burning at the stake? Or the asylum?
Oh, and kona: bike!
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Reply #1141 Sunday, March 30, 2003 11:59 PM
"So, what part of what I say sounds like I'm pro Saddam?"
If Saddam Hussein's goal is to stay in power, and it is your wish that we go home and leave him in power... what part *isn't* pro-Saddam? Anti-war Europe already has the deals in place to send him billions of dollars in oil deals and military aid the moment the sanctions are lifted. Will he just get bored and retire?
I don't think you believe you are pro-Saddam, but all he needs to do is stay in power, and you refuse to accept the validity of removing him. Unless you can, of course, find a way to remove him without force. So far I haven't heard any suggestions on that point. Voodoo Dolls?