Windowblinds Quality Control
Saturday, December 21, 2002 by pixElated | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Why doesn't Wincustomize do at least a minimal amount of quality control on WB Skins?
At least 4 of the 15 most recently uploaded skins were basically unusable in their original incarnations. Many, many skins have fatal flaws.
Since you are evaluating each skin to make sure it's not a rip, why don't you go ahead and install it and see if the installation works - it's surprising how often it doesn't. If it does, then go ahead and run a series of simple tests to make sure the skin works and is usable and legible. This shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.
Hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of unusable skins have been downloaded. Thats a lot of wasted time and bandwidth. It is also a poor reflection on Skin Studio. It's disappointing to download a beautiful skin and install it only to find out you can't use it.
Maybe you could create a list of people who are willing to beta test skins before they get uploaded. Then the skinners could get in touch with those people. In fact, you could restrict skins from being uploaded except by the beta testers.
At least 4 of the 15 most recently uploaded skins were basically unusable in their original incarnations. Many, many skins have fatal flaws.
Since you are evaluating each skin to make sure it's not a rip, why don't you go ahead and install it and see if the installation works - it's surprising how often it doesn't. If it does, then go ahead and run a series of simple tests to make sure the skin works and is usable and legible. This shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes.
Hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of unusable skins have been downloaded. Thats a lot of wasted time and bandwidth. It is also a poor reflection on Skin Studio. It's disappointing to download a beautiful skin and install it only to find out you can't use it.
Maybe you could create a list of people who are willing to beta test skins before they get uploaded. Then the skinners could get in touch with those people. In fact, you could restrict skins from being uploaded except by the beta testers.
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pixElated
Reply #22 Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:37 PM
Reply #22 Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:37 PM
It wasn't my intention to criticize anybody's skins, but Jafo said the following "Funny...every skin I have downloaded and installed has worked....". I guess he doesn't download many skins or he has his head in the sand. Because of his comment, I pointed out only 3 mistakes. Motion knows his most recent skin was unusable when he uploaded it, and Agneva's latest skin was a mess.
Yes I know that the skinners are no to blame. I've done some skins myself, and I know they take an unbelievable amount of time. That is why I think Wincustomize should help out. But if Jafo isn't sympathetic, we might as well forget it.
Please note that I offered a simple solution to the problem and volunteered to help out. Most of the posters in this thread don't even remember what the thread is about. Like most message boards, the folks who hang out here are always defensive and quick to attack anyone who opens their mouth. If you think you are doing Wincustomize a favor by being rude, you are mistaken.
LeCrayon - I only used your skin as an example because it was recent and because Motion had already publicly documented the problem. Don't think that I was attacking you. To the contrary, I am trying to establish a system where the skinner has some support BEFORE his skin becomes public. My apologies if I hurt your feelings.
BoXXI - The code for your Carbon Fibre skin refers to a non-existant check-box image. I modified that skin to better suit my own taste, so I am familiar with it. I only mentioned your skin because it has been so popular. Your graphics are first rate and your other skins work fine as far as I know. After Carbon Fibre was first posted, you promised an update. I downloaded and tested the update on the Wincustomize site and it didn't display any checkboxes, so I posted a comment to that effect.
Yes I know that the skinners are no to blame. I've done some skins myself, and I know they take an unbelievable amount of time. That is why I think Wincustomize should help out. But if Jafo isn't sympathetic, we might as well forget it.
Please note that I offered a simple solution to the problem and volunteered to help out. Most of the posters in this thread don't even remember what the thread is about. Like most message boards, the folks who hang out here are always defensive and quick to attack anyone who opens their mouth. If you think you are doing Wincustomize a favor by being rude, you are mistaken.
LeCrayon - I only used your skin as an example because it was recent and because Motion had already publicly documented the problem. Don't think that I was attacking you. To the contrary, I am trying to establish a system where the skinner has some support BEFORE his skin becomes public. My apologies if I hurt your feelings.
BoXXI - The code for your Carbon Fibre skin refers to a non-existant check-box image. I modified that skin to better suit my own taste, so I am familiar with it. I only mentioned your skin because it has been so popular. Your graphics are first rate and your other skins work fine as far as I know. After Carbon Fibre was first posted, you promised an update. I downloaded and tested the update on the Wincustomize site and it didn't display any checkboxes, so I posted a comment to that effect.
Jafo
Reply #23 Monday, December 23, 2002 1:04 AM
Reply #23 Monday, December 23, 2002 1:04 AM
As is often the case, the Admins' efforts are trivialized and over-simplified in the minds of the observers.
So often an individual gets singled out as an example of 'bad skinning' [or recently at ArtUpRoar in the case of 'bad wallpaper'] when all that 'may' have been at fault was the 'reviewer's' poor taste or at least poor tact.
If I come across as 'unsympathetic' or 'rude' then it's in public defence of individuals' slights.
I have never been much for the public degrading of another's efforts whether graphic or otherwise.
Complaints/concerns about a particular skin should be kept with the skin comments themselves, and not topicalized in a public forum.
If you [pixElated] 'must' use examples then try my skins. Find fault with them...there's bound to be plenty, particularly since many were done before XP or even SkinStudio existed.
I think the original approach of this thread could have been a tad more 'diplomatic'.
Of course you will get a lot of skinners being all defensive and quick to attack....particularly when their efforts are being attacked in the first place.
Now...to your 'beta tester' proposal....why not?
Some already do it...sending others their skins prior to upload, so maybe a community 'thread' devoted to bug feedback makes sense...but only provided it is an 'optional' process, not some 'big brother' making you get it right or else...
As for 'head buried in the sand'....if only I had the time....sounds like it could be relaxing...
So often an individual gets singled out as an example of 'bad skinning' [or recently at ArtUpRoar in the case of 'bad wallpaper'] when all that 'may' have been at fault was the 'reviewer's' poor taste or at least poor tact.
If I come across as 'unsympathetic' or 'rude' then it's in public defence of individuals' slights.
I have never been much for the public degrading of another's efforts whether graphic or otherwise.
Complaints/concerns about a particular skin should be kept with the skin comments themselves, and not topicalized in a public forum.
If you [pixElated] 'must' use examples then try my skins. Find fault with them...there's bound to be plenty, particularly since many were done before XP or even SkinStudio existed.
I think the original approach of this thread could have been a tad more 'diplomatic'.
Of course you will get a lot of skinners being all defensive and quick to attack....particularly when their efforts are being attacked in the first place.
Now...to your 'beta tester' proposal....why not?
Some already do it...sending others their skins prior to upload, so maybe a community 'thread' devoted to bug feedback makes sense...but only provided it is an 'optional' process, not some 'big brother' making you get it right or else...
As for 'head buried in the sand'....if only I had the time....sounds like it could be relaxing...
chichigirl46
Reply #24 Monday, December 23, 2002 2:05 AM
Reply #24 Monday, December 23, 2002 2:05 AM
I read this entire thread, and I'm sorry, but I don't see where "pixElated" was putting anyone or skins down ... I tend to agree with him in some areas, especially when it comes to some one not giving praises here, people here are defensive 
I think his idea of skins that are "buggy" should not be uploaded, then updated/updated/updated, especially from those that have been skinning for some time now... what a easy way to get higher downloads 
but then again that is another issue and not for this thread.... I help others in the community and test their skins, and many more of us should do that, as pixElated pointed out, it would cut some extra usage on the bandwidth. The last two weeks WC and the forum board is sloooow for me and others and I'm cable, and with all the upgrading and donations for a faster site is not helping, my opinion, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying.
I think his idea of skins that are "buggy" should not be uploaded, then updated/updated/updated, especially from those that have been skinning for some time now... what a easy way to get higher downloads 
but then again that is another issue and not for this thread.... I help others in the community and test their skins, and many more of us should do that, as pixElated pointed out, it would cut some extra usage on the bandwidth. The last two weeks WC and the forum board is sloooow for me and others and I'm cable, and with all the upgrading and donations for a faster site is not helping, my opinion, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying.
Lecrayon
Reply #25 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:20 AM
Reply #25 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:20 AM
WOM - I trusted the zip feature in skinstudio. Why should I check what programmers should check. As I read motions comment here it's a bug in skinstudio. Perhaps it has something to do with renaming the bitmaps. If a program doesn't work correctly I can't help that.
PixElated, no worries, I just pointed out what I said above. If you redownload the skin you will see it works fine.
As far as downloading skins, I too find some unusable. Sometimes it's because of colour, sometimes it is because the skinner wasn't very careful with magic pinks or text alignments or clip texts. Sometimes just because I don't like the design. Sometimes because it's not innovative and just the 34th in the dozen. I think you do have a point, but we all have so many people we trust to skim through the skin. I try to only release the skin when I think it is finished. There are people however that are so eager to upload a skin as soon as possible it has to have mistakes in it still. So, to all those: give it a bit more time to check, work with the skin for a day and be critical at your work. If it can withstand it, you are ready to upload.
PixElated, no worries, I just pointed out what I said above. If you redownload the skin you will see it works fine.
As far as downloading skins, I too find some unusable. Sometimes it's because of colour, sometimes it is because the skinner wasn't very careful with magic pinks or text alignments or clip texts. Sometimes just because I don't like the design. Sometimes because it's not innovative and just the 34th in the dozen. I think you do have a point, but we all have so many people we trust to skim through the skin. I try to only release the skin when I think it is finished. There are people however that are so eager to upload a skin as soon as possible it has to have mistakes in it still. So, to all those: give it a bit more time to check, work with the skin for a day and be critical at your work. If it can withstand it, you are ready to upload.
UBoB
Reply #26 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:21 AM
Reply #26 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:21 AM
Then perhaps a thread devoted to beta testing should be started. Somewhere where skinners and people who are willing to test can get together. The skinner can simply come on and post that he/she has a new skin ready for upload and would like it to be tested. Then anyone who wants to can volunteer to have the skin emailed to them and then test it.
Sound like a plan?
Sound like a plan?
Lecrayon
Reply #27 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:32 AM
Reply #27 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:32 AM
Oh, and a little bit off topic: What would the rating of my blue blood saturation skin be if it was uploaded by one of the big names here I bet it would'nt get a 3 as I got.
I bet it would'nt get a 3 as I got. 
UBoB
Reply #29 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:34 AM
Reply #29 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:34 AM
Ooops! Keep in mind, that the system I suggested above would have it's pitfalls. The artist would have to have some way of copyrighting the new skin, since in theory it would not have been previously uploaded and therefore no proof would exist that it belongs to them. In a worst case scenario, an artist could email a completely new skin to someone for testing and that person could simply put their name on it and upload it.
Therefore, the tester would have to be someone the artist knows and trusts.
Therefore, the tester would have to be someone the artist knows and trusts.
UBoB
Reply #32 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:37 AM
Reply #32 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:37 AM
Lecrayon, if you were a Journeyman or above I believe you would automatically get a 6 to start with.
Lecrayon
Reply #34 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:45 AM
Reply #34 Monday, December 23, 2002 7:45 AM
Journeymen have to travel too much 
And where is the laptop when you need it?
And where is the laptop when you need it?
WOM
Reply #35 Monday, December 23, 2002 8:00 AM
Reply #35 Monday, December 23, 2002 8:00 AM
Remember, no one is perfect, so if one overlooks an error and is pointed out they are quick to fix it. But obvious errors should be caught before uploading. I don't think everyone was quick to defend WC. Bandwidth was improved and was started at 300,000 members. We now have 500,000. So I think WC will try and do some more ketch-up when the $$$ comes in. AS was pointed out to me on a post, it's the way you say something that ticks people off. Maybe it could have been presented a little different.
mrbiotech
Reply #36 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 2:06 AM
Reply #36 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 2:06 AM
QC will do nothing more than increase turnaround time and work-load. It implies that somebody, whether the wizops or a select community, is going to have to give a detailed look-over of function and feasability for each skin submitted, which is time-consuming. Still, if QC's the way to do it, then get a beta-testing group- at least they can share the burden.
I agree on the comments scheme- we've got a great contributory community here that is more than willing to assist (kindly, at that) if they notice something amiss in a skin. It's like having a beta-testing group of hundreds of thousands of individuals.
I agree on the comments scheme- we've got a great contributory community here that is more than willing to assist (kindly, at that) if they notice something amiss in a skin. It's like having a beta-testing group of hundreds of thousands of individuals.
MikeB314
Reply #37 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:28 AM
Reply #37 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:28 AM
Lecrayon: You did have a 6 to start with. Maybe it was a 5, but definately not any lower. I approved blue blood saturation myself. User ratings brought it down to a 3. As for whether it would have a 3 if it were uploaded by one of the "big names", I think so. It's not terribly innovative, as you often note of other skins, and it does not appear that a lot skill or effort went into it. But more to the point, one of the "big names" here would not have created that skin.
How can you rant about innovation, and then churn out a skin like this https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?Library=1&skinid=3004 and complain about your rating? What do you think it deserves?
How can you rant about innovation, and then churn out a skin like this https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?Library=1&skinid=3004 and complain about your rating? What do you think it deserves?
WOM
Reply #38 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:36 AM
Reply #38 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:36 AM
Aside from all that, there isn't much room left for fresh ideas with over 2000 skins made. Very little room left for innovation. A few tweaks here and there is about all .
Swtnssss
Reply #39 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 10:53 AM
Reply #39 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 10:53 AM
I came here because everyone helps people try to learn skinning, I appreciate the constructive critisism, I spend alot of time emailing instructions to many who come here and can't figure out how to use the Great skins they find, I try to test my skins before uploading and still flaws will be found, and for the most part, everyone is very nice, very helpful, and a joy to have contact with.
I usually don't do things like this, but:
Author: pixElated
Description:
Update: Repackaged it in hopes that the taskbar will always get skinned correctly - gulp. Lots of cool refreshing water. The titlebars can blend together rather seamlessly - this is a feature.
Can we rest our case?
I usually don't do things like this, but:
Author: pixElated
Description:
Update: Repackaged it in hopes that the taskbar will always get skinned correctly - gulp. Lots of cool refreshing water. The titlebars can blend together rather seamlessly - this is a feature.
Can we rest our case?
Lecrayon
Reply #40 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:50 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:50 PM
Isn't it great to just hammer on someone eh Mike. I won't use that animated emoticon but I am tempted.
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Reply #21 Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:02 PM