Agreed...I currently DO own weapons and I'd have a problem if they took that right away from me. If someone is determined to kill, you can kill someone with just about anything...vehicle, knife, rock, stick, bow and arrow, hand tools, bare hands, damn near anything. I actually carried a weapon as part of my job for 20+ years and I never investigated a crime committed by a 'gun' loading itself, picking itself up, taking it's safety off, aiming itself and squeezing it's own trigger. It's a tool whose use is determined by the 'person' using it. Yes, I agree, Giz, guns don't kill people, people kill people...

Guns take the effort out of it.

There IS NO legitimate function for, say auto-loading guns outside of the military.  I was a quite accomplished marksman in my teens...with a single-shot bolt action rifle.  If I demanded some absurd inalienable right to use it as personal defence I would have been capable of 'removing' a threat from a quarter mile away with ease.

The arguments pro gun ownership are banal, as it is a fact that the highest mortality rates from domestic gun use are exclusive to countries with the highest rates of gun ownership.

Convenient and expedient.

The sad thing is this gun culture is imbued into people's psyches and can never now be excised so there's no point in trying.

Instead we shall continue to shake our heads at situations such as this and blame anything AND everything OTHER than our beloved gun fetish.

he's been described as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist, therein lies part of the problem.

This is a true statement and attitudes about pro / con gun control have been debated, discussed, point / counterpointed and argued to death but I venture a guess that most of the time whichever side you were on before, you'll probably leave with when it's over. There are obviously contributing factors to which side a person takes, geography, background, personality, exposure and simply "how you were raised" but my viewpoint is from a RESPONSIBLE gun owner that respects a weapon, what it is and what it's capable of. The street thug, scumbag, criminal and crazy has no business whatsoever with a weapon but as long as they're out there wandering around 'strapped' (and they probably always will be), well, I think I'll hang on to mine too.... 

gmc2, this comment is not being directed to you personally.

Stereotypes can be applied to anyone and everyone depending on whoever is doing the labeling.

Let's please leave off any labeling, or quote labeling containing racial and/or religious implications.

Norway has undergone an insane, hateful attack. Children have been slaughtered. Can we not leave it at that and offer sympathies?

It's not a stereo type; it's a world view.  If someone has a messed up view of the world because their belief system and its sacred texts/clerics brain wash that person into thinking that violence against certain individuals is demanded by a higher power, pussyfooting around that world view by rational people because it falls under the category of religion (*gasp* sacred!!) means that there will never be an end to these types of horrid events.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families in Norway suffering thru a terrible loss.

If you really want to save lives then forget guns....outlaw cars and motorcycles....US numbers from the CDC

Firearm related Homicide or Legal Intervention deaths for 2007 = 12,983 (latest info available)

Traffic related deaths for 2007 = 46,250

Obviously NO ONE should be allowed to own a vehicle.

Maybe, maybe not, but this side-argument is still nit-picking and detracts from the wider issue... GUNS DO NOT BELONG IN THE WIDER COMMUNITY... PERIOD.

The black sarcasm is not appreciated and does nothing to support and alternative argument to gun control.  So tell me, when is there a GOOD time to denounce the use of guns in society... when every day somebody dies because an arsewipe picks up and uses a gun with the express intent to extinguish human life?  Do one [singular] murder make it any more palatable/acceptable?  Of course not!

And again, I will say, the blame for these needless killings also rests squarely on the shoulders of the '"it's my right to carry a gun" crowd... because it is their stubborn refusal to relinquish that 'right'? which creates the difficulty for government to enact gun control, hence more senseless gun slaughter occurs while access to firearms is made far too easy.  Every time some nut job commits mass murder with a firearm, every pro-gunner' needs to look at themselves honestly and accept that they are in part responsible

Put another way!  How would all you pro-gunners feel about some equally determined group defending their 'right' to use crack cocaine and/or heroin?  Yes, they're killing themselves, but what about the snowball effect... the so-called coolness of it all influencing your kids?  It's a case on monkey see, monkey do, with guns and/or drugs, and supposedly responsible members of society need to be better role models/leaders if things are to change for the better.

True, somebody with that mindset is going to kill, but those weapons are less capable of 'instant' mass murder, while putting the gun in his/her hand [via the right to bear arms mentality] enables  him/her to instantly and kill dozens in the blink of an eye... from a distance where he/she feels safe.  Having to kill with a knife up close removes that safety barrier and thus doubt arises.  I'm not saying it won't happen, but close proximity murders aren't as easy [or as multiple] as those from a distance with a firearm.  Provide the simplicity to kill and quite simply there will be nut jobs who will take advantage of it.

For every responsible? gun owner there's half a dozen nut jobs just waiting to go off.... so at the end of the day, under the right to bear arms mentality, there is NO responsible gun ownership... because the pro-gunners who responsibly their gun holstered/in a drawer, etc, also put guns in the hands of dickheads simply by perpetuating and demanding the 'right'.

Doc (Seth), I'm not taking your comments personally and I didn't open this conversation up and I'm only quoting the news media.

to clarify: Being on the right or the left doesn't make one a bad person. Being a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew or any other religious persuasion doesn't make one a bad person. However when you add the term fundamentalist/extremist to any description there is a potential for violence. You probably have first hand knowledge of how rigid and unyielding ultra-orthodox ideology can lead to violent confrontations.

So, if I have offended anyone because they feel they have the right to kill another human being based on opposing religious or political beliefs, tough s#%t.

I am not a gun advocate and that statement is incorrect. I can see you have a passion for this topic but that not a factual statement.

Now your really grabbing at straws and insulting people who are clear minded/thinking responsible adults that don't require hand holding to get through life. This is just plain hysteria at its worst...enough already.

Based on your statement you should sell all your cars...kitchen utensils...basically anything that can cause harm to another person...because if just one person is harmed by some thing you own it's your fault just because you own it and if you hadn't bought it no one would have every been harmed because some manufacturer created that just for you.

No offense Mark but I refuse to give up any of my rights just because some jerkoffs cannot control their behavior and everyone else gets all hysterical. This continual mindset that the getting rid of all guns will stop violence is just plain ridiculous and poorly thought out.

And from here on in all humans will be required to wear handcuffs specially designed to encase both hands every day to protect the ignorant and everyone from themselves.

It's called life!

well... there'd be less blindness in the world.... 

sorry... just adding a little bit of....light relief...  

Norway situation is very tragic though.... nothing will stop a nutter if they want to create havoc... 

My personal opinion: Especially for those who thinks it's a "human right" to own guns.

I find it utterly offensive bringing that discussing into this matter.
You try reasoning that "right" to anyone who've had their kid slaughtered by a gunman.
You'd fail instantly.

So, stfu, and keep it out of this matter.

Snowman goes back to watching the news, hopeing he didn't know any of the killed kids or their parents.

His motivation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwp2FnRmsE&skipcontrinter=1

I know you weren't expressing a personal view, Greg.

Yes, I've seen and continue to witness the violence created by ideologies of all types taking precedence over humans and humanity.

It has, does and will always sadden me. The means used, words, knives, economics, guns, explosives are all equal in that they aid to perpetrate and perpetuate this violence.

Fundamental to it all is the mistaken thought that "This [whatever] takes precedence over individuals; the end justifies the means." and fundamental to that, hardwired (seemingly) into our brains in the ego related, "I can win." - another tragically mistaken thought.

edit:

I also fully agree with you, Snowy... and I really hope this sorrow doesn't involve you personally. Didn't stop to think of you being personally hit by this, and I regret that oversight.

and political labeling.

What this murderer did was not 'Christian' nor 'Political'.

^ Correct.

IMO, this guy knew exactly what he was doing, what he wanted to accomplish, from his manifesto, his youtube posting, the photographs of his self, on down the line... even surrendering himself in lieu of a self inflicted shot to the head.... all prepared and planned years in advance.

Don't be surprised if one, this isn't the last we hear from him.. and 2...that more, similar instances occur in western locales.

I apologise, however much of the despair in the world is caused by political, religious or ethnic differences. to dismiss that reality is well...

...and true that you can't stop someone once they've made up their mind to kill.

Greg, I don't think it's the differences per se which cause the problems.

I believe it's that there are deranged individuals who resort to violence claiming a religious/economic/political/racial/etc., etc., etc. reason or justification.

The common denominator is anger/ego which the deranged person can neither recognize nor control. The person/people perpetrating the violence is deranged.

All the rest (justifications, etc.) are just window dressing.

Until truly effective screening and treatment methods are evolved which can be delivered without stigmatizing the person/people involved and which address the causes (environmental and medical) of the derangement, we're doomed to repeat them.