And another thread that started with interesting potential going bonkers with nonsense...

Lightstar : Your example is not the same.  If You make special parts for that lawnmower that makes people buy it, that is something different.

You know I am always critical with stardock but this is something I don't agree. If someone does decent skins (and let's face it, those are the ones that help to sell the software) he has a good chance 1) to be promoted and 2) sell his skins after being promoted to the right level. So even more win-win there.

That's because those people haven't taken the original post seriously. Some people here tend to not question anything and just go along with the way things are done. Rather than risk looking bad they just blow it off.

Let me say this again. This site is Brads site and he can do whatever he wants with. I can't, am not, questioning that. This site is made to sell Stardock software, that's it. Knowing that I don't get too involved in the "community" because all it is me helping Brad make money. I still have to pay for the products that I help him sell. I'm not on the payroll. I don't get a free subscription for all the exposure he's gotten from what I've shown off. I am not alone in this, there's been others who have more downloads, more exposure than me. I happen to know for a fact that some people here get free stuff. Why some and not others? I'll never divulge how I know this so I can't prove it. Even if I could prove it who cares? I'd just hurt people I care about. Who trusted me.

Ya know you can do whatever you want people but if all the people who post here were abducted by aliens overnight in a week or two there would be other people taking your place and that would be fine with Stardock as long as they were still making money. So much for community.

I guess some people just need to be a part of something.

Now I will go farther into this. I only posted part of what I think.

In this country now there is a tendency to put business and banking first. This is due to the system that Ronald Reagan established in the 80's and  the Republicans have continued. This is a deception because it was business and the banks who caused the economy to tank. Then Bush and then Obama bail them out using our money! So what do these pirates in business and the banks do? The CEO's give themselves hundreds of millions of dollars in bonus money! They were supposed to start lending money to create jobs! They aren't. They cry that they are afraid to give out loans because of government regulations and taxes yet it is a fact that the richest 1% have captured America's wealth.  "Between 2002 and 2006: an astounding three-quarters of all the economy's growth was captured by the top 1%" - Robert Freeman.  Look at the first full year of the crisis when workers lost an average of 25% of their 401K.  During the same time period, the wealth of the 400 richest Americans increased by $30 billion, bringing their their total combined wealth to 1.57 trillion, which is more than the combined net worth of 50% of the US population. Just to make this point clear, 400 people have more wealth than 155 million people combined. If our income had kept pace with compensation distribution rates established in the early 1970s, we would all be making at least three times as much as we are currently making. How different would your life be if you were making $120,000 a year, instead of $40,000?, but those CEO's wouldn't have as much as they do. Even if they only had a third of what they have that would be more that most of us will ever have. What's a third of 30 billion? 10 billion right? That's not enough for them and they don't care how they get it. What they did was take our money, gamble it away on Wall Street, sucked the life out us and then demand that we bail them out or they would ruin the country totally. In the meanwhile they got richer and they continue to hold us hostage!

I am not saying that Brad is in the same league as these guys nor am i comparing him to these guys. My point is that this is serious stuff and maybe Stardock is fooling you. Stardock isn't as big as the rich bankers or the Koch Brothers but they are still a fair sized company and from what I've seen Brad is pretty conservative.

I'd like to know what Brad Wardell thinks of Climate Change? I'd like to know what Stardock thinks of the state of affairs in this country? Do they support higher taxes for the rich? Do they support the union busting polices of the Republicans? Does Stardock support the privatization of our government services?

I want to know what kind of environment I am in when I upload here. It's time the common man made a stand. It's time to question what we do, who we support.

Why not ask the person who told you?

That's kind of hard to prove. People aren't kidnapped by aliens. If they 'disappear' there are many reasons that could occur. As for Community, I'd venture to say that it is what you make of it.

You're part of it too, I hope. The need for social relationships is fundamental and common to all people.

Those are political questions, and divisive. This is a skinning site. For political opinions and non skinning matters, none of which are foisted on you, JoeUser.com exists. You know that.

Of what interest is it, really, what Brad or Jafo thinks about politics and the state of affairs in the USA? What impact does that have on skinning, and why should that influence your use of Stardock products? That simple eludes me, Chasbo. I'd rather see one of essorant's, Lightstar's, WebGizmo's, vStyler's, 2of3's or Xiandi's skins any day.... and all the rest of the skinners (not being mentioned does not mean I don't like your art).

I, for one think those things don't need to be explored here. I don't care if Brad is "green" or not. I don't want to know how much he makes, nor his opinions about stuff other than skinning and the direction SD is taking with it's software and useful stuff he says about computing in general. I want to know the things which unite us positively.

I am not criticizing you, nor your questions.

I think you're unhappy about something and I wish I could talk to you about that, but I'm not sure you wish to, nor with me.... I am open to that, anytime (except noon - Dentist appointment for a rather severely painful tooth, I'm afraid).

No matter what, I'm your friend and don't look to fight with you. You're entitled to yours, and to debate them. I respect your right to have them.

Yeah, WC and Facebook. Only 'likes', no 'dislikes'. Clear words. Although I tend to know what comes now. Been there before... Just saying.

I kinda think Brad's political leanings are totally irrelevant and unrelated to me, you, OR Wincustomize.

Since day One, here at WC people have been of the opinion that Stardock rakes in MILLIONS from the existence of this website.

It doesn't...and it never has.

It runs "happily" at a loss, sponsored by Stardock's Community spirit.

If it were to exist on the sole proviso that it was genuinely self-sufficient it would have died about a decade ago, as have ALL the OTHER skinning sites...before and since, at least at one time or another.

Curiously there is always negativity related to the commercial model of the site and yet it is the only place on the planet where skinners ARE afforded a potential income [outside of their own financed sites]....

HOW-EV-ER... there is no way anyone will ever convince ME that if it were not for the existence of Wincustomize most of the SD customization products would NOT still be in existence. The skinners freely creating the masses of skins and then donating them to SD via this site was the ideal tool for SD. It would not have happened anyplace else either as the primary focus of this site has always been the SD apps.

Operating at a loss, I don't dispute that but compared to the amount of advertising $ that would have had to be spent to achieve the level of success the products have would have cost an enormous amount as well. It's all a matter of which bucket the money is put in to.

In any case, the PC world would be a much more drab and mundane place without SD. Thank you Brad for doing it!

I'm missing something.

Do you people "concerned" that Stardock is benefiting from WC want something?  Deserve something?

I pointed out the winners in the situation we have now.  Are there any losers? Who? What have you lost (that you wouldn't have if WC didn't exist)?

If you don't like the way this system works, start your own.  Let me know in 10 years how that works out.  

Come on, Phoon.... you  should remember 'back then' ....when the net had 'oodles' of skinning sites, each believing it was the best/most significant, any of whom probably 'imagined' they would/could be an on-going outlet for Stardock's skinnables....

Even Deviantart had not yet redefined itself to become a 'Jack-of-all-trades' when it came to graphic art.....it was mooted as yet another 'significant' skinning site.

Any/all of those sites would have supplanted the 'need' for Wincustomize.com were it not for the benefit of being able to look back from the now to the then and know that Deskmod died, Skinz.org never recovered from eFront, Customize.org mis-directed and Deviantart outgrew 'gainliness' making no moderation quite problematic.

As a 'publicity machine' it's quite likely more people 'discover' such things as Windowblinds from Download.com than from here, because if they're here they likely already know...

I don't understand why there is a problem at all. I mean...we all of us, as many as there are are one big community. I said this before...its like having an extended family IMO. If what we do helps SD in any way that should be a plus. Call it free advertising or whatever you want but to me...its what I do, its what I want to do, its what I enjoy doing. What do I care if they make money on it. It started out as a business and we, believe it or not are in a sense salespeople. We use the products SD creates to make our own stuff to display here at WC. Where is the wrong in that? Seriously. Look how many members there are. How many people use the product. how many skinners there are and how many more there can be. We get newbies all the time. Mally McGinnis, Luk3-o, Neone6 to name a few and they're all good. Look at the quality of the skins coming in, WindowBlinds, Docks, cursors etc. We have real bonafide artists here. Real people with real talent. Would that self same talent be on display as it is without the products that help them create their masterpieces? Probably but....SD through WC has them and we are all the more richer for it.

Okay...rant over.

here we go again

trying to make humor out of a ridiculous thread

if thats what you want...start your own website...

IMO I think what they have done to market the products is genius...wish I had thought about it and it was me u were bitching about

Hmm, no. And read my statement again, this time in favour of Stardock.

Ridiculous for YOU. Maybe. Others may want a good discussion (Note: 'discussion' not 'fight') or like to read different opinions, sometimes even to stand corrected afterwards.

right...yet to you my "opinion" of this thread is nonsense.

I'm very unhappy with the state of the nation and in particular the rich and well to do. In my view they are getting huge advantages as cited by the statistics I presented. The bankers, the Koch Brothers. Don't need to repeat it over and over.

THE MIDDLE CLASS IS DEAD.

My frustration has boiled over.

It's very difficult for me to be comfortable here anymore. 

Thing about posting stuff in a forum or say in an email is it's there forever. I've probably burned my bridges here. One has got to have the courage of ones convictions.

See ya all later.

I don't know about anyone else...but I come here to skin and to forget about all the political crap in the world...even if for a short time. Nothing I can do about the worlds problems...so I skin...call it a mental vacation from it all if you will. And further...forums/email/pm's are the worse places to have a political discusson...it always ends badly...people go off half cocked...end up leaving...and deleting their stuff...gnashing of teeth...pulling out hair...and generally behaving badly.

I think the one thing we can all agree on (then again maybe not) is that the state of affairs in this country is in the toilet and you can almost hear the giant sucking sound as it goes down the drain. So how about when we are here we just leave politics at the door.

Noted You set "opinion" in quotes Yourself ? In what way is "I just want to be naked." an opinion anyways ? It's not even funny. And if that was meant to be provoking, well, goal achieved, so what ?

I totally fail to see Chasbos points in politics being a part of WC, and why he feels he has to leave because of those, as this site has never been about politics. But he had some valid points to think about and others added good valid points also, So Why You felt You had to destroy this thread with offtopic spam is beyond me. And looking at the forums it is nearly the same people over and over, who bring threads offtopic sooner or later. And after 50 times every joke is not even funny anymore...

All this to make You and others think, not to accuse or bash anyone, nor to moan or whine. If discussions like this are not even possible anymore, we really have come far.

Webgizmos : Word @ politics. PLUS : There are not only americans here. Don't let me start with german politics here.

I understand that Carl...but politics are pretty much the same all over...and handful of people making things miserable for everyone else. I'll never understand that...where's the tar and feathers...where's peoples spines. Bring on the revolution! Don't get me started!

 This is why I hate politics. It turns damn good people against each other and for what. Leave it for those who don't know any better. Politics does not belong here. C'mon people. Lets not let this get out of hand....Please.

Freeware types of Programs are cool but typically have a moderate to short life span, and often unstable due to the lack of structure and/or waning interest by the developers as new projects arise. Having helped launch one of the first desktop customization programs, I know first hand the road most freeware programs inevitably take.

The Elders of skinning migrated here as our old homes started closing their doors. Razor art, Custo.org, skinz.org, Desktopmod,etc. etc etc. Lack of interest, inner fighting, cost of keeping the doors open.. etc, kept leaving us searching for new places to call home. We were not forced here, we followed our friends and peers to a stable and organized community, and have enjoyed the benefits of helping it flourish. Not only with getting to download ton's of kickass skins over the years, but in building friendships with folks we probably never have or will get to meet face to face.. Many I will treasure for a life time. Without SD behind WB keeping the development going, I could surmise that It too would have waned away to nothing as developers found paying job's..

The selling point for me was Not all the free skins, I bought in to SD for the ability to customize my Windows { Back then I used LiteStep To customize the shell } WB stabily did the one thing I couldn't.., even if the only available skins were SD made I would have still subscribed, downloaded the ones I liked, and made my own. Sure I would have not enjoyed all the killer skins that have been offered by the community. But at-least I would been able to customize my "windows" without hacking my files..

This symbiotic co-existence works for everyone, skinners can advance to sell skins on WC, possibly be recruited by SD or other Co's by exposure here, get ranked up enough to download unlimited amounts of skins, not just SD stuff either.

Me personally?  If SD has made enough cash from someone "Needing" one of my skins so badly that they went and bought a SD sub to get it and in return kept the site going..... SWEET!!!!. Not only would I be amazed,    but satisfied.... as over the years I have gotten so much more from this community than I possibly have ever been able to return.

Just my 2 cents..

HG_Eliminator

{AKA} PhenomTT

PS.. also remember, when WC was created all types of skinnable programs were and are still hosted.. A virtual community for all skinners to enjoy, "not" just those who skin SD app's..

If SD app's seem to be the most popular to be skinned, I would chock it up to the continual development of the app's thats keeping the skinners interested...

When I came around in 2001ish SD apps were the front runners. They are more so now either from the other apps falling by the wayside or from the way the new WC is created with those apps primarily in hiding unless turned on.

I'm not at all complaining about the way it is/has been by any means. I just think the existence of WC has played a much larger role in the success of the SD apps than is generally admitted to or realized.

On the topic of the OP: I think it's great that an individual with a vision was able to work hard, develop a concept and make substantial amounts of money from it.

Following the diversions of the OP: There is no way in hell that Brad or any other company should feel bad about making lots of money from the hard work, nor be expected to "give some of it away" to people that PURPOSELY sit on their dead LAZY asses and expect everyone else to provide for them.

Once again. Thank you Brad and SD for being here and continuing to be here.

- and if Skinhit want to "show his skin" then that's his choice. There's no law that says he can't do it on any damn thread he chooses ( with the exception of the support threads).