So we're moderating submissions now?
Thursday, August 23, 2001 by digitaljames | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
So far none of "my" submissions have been modded but apparently others have. Is WC going the way of Skinz.org where blatant favoritism for styles/trends keeps a lot of submissions out? One mans trash is another mans treasure. Look at the plethora of "XP" wallpapers that have been posted. Most are mindless/unplanned thrown together pieces of "filterfest". I have posted some myself. Where does the judging start? Look at the sheer number of downloads some "amatuerish" submissions get. Should a plain "black wallpaper" be modded? Of course. Should something that may have taken an "amatuer" (aren't we all?) a few hours to make be modded just because to an Admin, it's amatuerish? Where do we draw the line? I'll use some of my own submissions as an example.
Bronzed,WinXP3 and blu 2 required nothing other than a couple of Photoshop filters and Voila! Is it a bandwidth/storage issue? If so, go back through the library and clean out all of the wallpapers that may contain, and I quote " busy, chaotic, un-composed and amatuerish effects". Moderation of "art" is probably one of the hardest things to do effectively and without prejudice. Now that there is an unwritten rule for Mods (see quote), make it part of the posted "guidlines" for posting submissions so there can be no confusion. For what it's worth, most of my submissions don't really make good wallpapers but I post em anyway. Make a seperate "Art" category like deviant and I'll stick em there. I'd appreciate an "official" stand on this issue with the site admins. Some new and fledgling users will effectively be exiled by the "subjective" standards. ...
Bronzed,WinXP3 and blu 2 required nothing other than a couple of Photoshop filters and Voila! Is it a bandwidth/storage issue? If so, go back through the library and clean out all of the wallpapers that may contain, and I quote " busy, chaotic, un-composed and amatuerish effects". Moderation of "art" is probably one of the hardest things to do effectively and without prejudice. Now that there is an unwritten rule for Mods (see quote), make it part of the posted "guidlines" for posting submissions so there can be no confusion. For what it's worth, most of my submissions don't really make good wallpapers but I post em anyway. Make a seperate "Art" category like deviant and I'll stick em there. I'd appreciate an "official" stand on this issue with the site admins. Some new and fledgling users will effectively be exiled by the "subjective" standards. ...
Jafo
Reply #2 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:01 AM
Reply #2 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:01 AM
Digitaljames...
Yes, WinCustomiz.com has 'gone the same way as skinz.org', for exactly the same reason.
Wallpapers are hosted here, but this is a 'skin' site. The walls are an adjunct, a support to the skins, as part of the site, not as a prime directive of the site.
In much the same 'focus' in reverse as shown by DeviantArt, where the skins play second-fiddle to the 'more mainstream' art forms.
When WinCustomize first started, attention was taken by the setting up process of getting the site off the ground, and less 'immediate' concerns of moderating upload content was nudged a little towards the back-burner.
Now, things are a little more settled. The site is growing quite strongly, and a steady stream of submissions are arriving.
Now, the current wallpaper section holds 770 walls of extremely diverse style and origin, some of which are decidedly inappropriate on many grounds, none of which are aesthetic.
There are currently NO Celebrity wallpapers, for example.
But there were....a dozen or so.
They are gone. Why?
The artists failed to indicate their personal authorship of the photographs used. In other words, the celebrity, or the photographer did not release consent for their re-distribution, whether filter-frenzied, or not.
Another example of 'moderation'.....
I recently jumped up and down about the rights of a person submitting a WinAMP skin that was originally done by someone else.
I said I could not accept it until I had consent verification. Why? Because both people are registered here...on WinCustomize, and I was being sure to protect the rights of another fellow member.
Back to the walls...
[slight pun]
The re-evaluation of the wallpapers submitted already here is an on-going task. I'm sure a few people may have noticed the odd wall disappear.
Copyrighted images/icons is one good reason....nudity is another.
Skin sites generally have a policy of no nudity....not always strictly adhered to, but usually....and this is different to art-specific sites such as Deviantart, which is obliged to encompass a more liberal view, as life-drawing and nude-photography are ligitimate art forms.
When it comes to 'styles' of walls that 'may' be accepted, that can be anything from the simple to the wildly intricate.
2-minute filter-frenzies won't quite cut the mustard.
A blue-swirlie is just that.
I'd suggest reading the SECOND page of the Bryce handbook [if there is one] before uploading.
If there are to be 100 walls here by the one artist, they are going to have to be darn good by ANYONE'S standards...[and they weren't].
As for 'XP'...
I personally am praying for a 24-letter alphabet.
But the rotten things are popular. Nuvem proved that...3000 downloads in 24 hours....and it was in jest.
The moderations that do occur have been done in consultation, not as the whims of one person.
With a little more time, the wallpaper section will be an enjoyable place to browse, to find walls of use, and interest.
My first browse through the entire section was like a blind man reading a cheese grater...
Yes, WinCustomiz.com has 'gone the same way as skinz.org', for exactly the same reason.
Wallpapers are hosted here, but this is a 'skin' site. The walls are an adjunct, a support to the skins, as part of the site, not as a prime directive of the site.
In much the same 'focus' in reverse as shown by DeviantArt, where the skins play second-fiddle to the 'more mainstream' art forms.
When WinCustomize first started, attention was taken by the setting up process of getting the site off the ground, and less 'immediate' concerns of moderating upload content was nudged a little towards the back-burner.
Now, things are a little more settled. The site is growing quite strongly, and a steady stream of submissions are arriving.
Now, the current wallpaper section holds 770 walls of extremely diverse style and origin, some of which are decidedly inappropriate on many grounds, none of which are aesthetic.
There are currently NO Celebrity wallpapers, for example.
But there were....a dozen or so.
They are gone. Why?
The artists failed to indicate their personal authorship of the photographs used. In other words, the celebrity, or the photographer did not release consent for their re-distribution, whether filter-frenzied, or not.
Another example of 'moderation'.....
I recently jumped up and down about the rights of a person submitting a WinAMP skin that was originally done by someone else.
I said I could not accept it until I had consent verification. Why? Because both people are registered here...on WinCustomize, and I was being sure to protect the rights of another fellow member.
Back to the walls...
[slight pun]
The re-evaluation of the wallpapers submitted already here is an on-going task. I'm sure a few people may have noticed the odd wall disappear.
Copyrighted images/icons is one good reason....nudity is another.
Skin sites generally have a policy of no nudity....not always strictly adhered to, but usually....and this is different to art-specific sites such as Deviantart, which is obliged to encompass a more liberal view, as life-drawing and nude-photography are ligitimate art forms.
When it comes to 'styles' of walls that 'may' be accepted, that can be anything from the simple to the wildly intricate.
2-minute filter-frenzies won't quite cut the mustard.
A blue-swirlie is just that.
I'd suggest reading the SECOND page of the Bryce handbook [if there is one] before uploading.
If there are to be 100 walls here by the one artist, they are going to have to be darn good by ANYONE'S standards...[and they weren't].
As for 'XP'...
I personally am praying for a 24-letter alphabet.
But the rotten things are popular. Nuvem proved that...3000 downloads in 24 hours....and it was in jest.
The moderations that do occur have been done in consultation, not as the whims of one person.
With a little more time, the wallpaper section will be an enjoyable place to browse, to find walls of use, and interest.
My first browse through the entire section was like a blind man reading a cheese grater...
Doreen
Reply #3 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:05 AM
Reply #3 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:05 AM
hehe I thought for sure at the end of this lengthy post I was going to see Frogboy's name...
he's rubbing off on ya Jafo...hehe
he's rubbing off on ya Jafo...hehe
Jafo
Reply #4 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:06 AM
Reply #4 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:06 AM
OK...it was a long post..[for me, maybe not for Frogboy]...so I'm not correcting my typos....[evil grin]...
Elfkura
Reply #5 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:19 AM
Reply #5 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:19 AM
I don't think there has ever been "blant favortism" when it comes to moderating wallpapers..whether at skinz.org or at wincustomize.com.
Off to class I go.
Off to class I go.
digitaljames
Reply #6 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:21 AM
Reply #6 Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:21 AM
Thanks for the insight Jafo, a couple of fledgling artists have approached me on the subject. I would suggest that the guidlines for Wallpaper submission and moderation standards be outlined on the Upload screen so they know theres a chance it won't make it and not to worry it was lost in the shuffle. Maybe an automated "moderation" e-mail could be sent on rejection similar to what Skinz used to do with a redirect to a non-moderating site like Renderosity where they could get critiqued by the masses and learn how to improve. Maybe this thread will get the message out...think the work through, arrangement and composition are everything, XP bad, landscape good...lol
XPonentially yours,
digitalusjamesicus
XPonentially yours,
digitalusjamesicus
JavaBrain
Reply #7 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:08 AM
Reply #7 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:08 AM
There is a "rejection" letter that is sent from the moderators. If they are rejected- they will know. We don't redirect to other sites, though.
MobiusCo
Reply #8 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:29 AM
Reply #8 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:29 AM
Congrates Admins on taking a stand on the moderstation. As strictly a digital artist I prefer a high standard of acceptance of walls. It is a driving force to work harder. Yes at times it may seem that walls are being excepted because of a trend, but I see it as this. Just because 10 walls are accepted and are trendy does not mean they are not high quality. There may of been an addition 50 walls of the same trend that where moderated. Yes some artists may get upset when their work is moderated, and you may see someone elses work get posted that you think.. Why was my work moderated when that work was accepted. Well I try never to ask that question it will drive you nuts. But instead look at it as the moderation being a goal to achieve. When a work gets moderated, look at the level or work being excepted and try to surpass that level with your next submission.
Admins, yes this is a skins devoted site, but to rehash and old argument, explorer.exe is an application there fore a wall is a skin applied to that app, just like desktop.dll in litestep. So in a way walls are the origin of skins. BUt regardless keep up the increasing levels of moderation all it will do is help us all. Bring a nice high level or work to view, download, goals for artists. At the same time will turn the wall section into an electronic art gallery of high end work.
Ok time to buy a new box of crayons, and go back to shock theropy...
Admins, yes this is a skins devoted site, but to rehash and old argument, explorer.exe is an application there fore a wall is a skin applied to that app, just like desktop.dll in litestep. So in a way walls are the origin of skins. BUt regardless keep up the increasing levels of moderation all it will do is help us all. Bring a nice high level or work to view, download, goals for artists. At the same time will turn the wall section into an electronic art gallery of high end work.
Ok time to buy a new box of crayons, and go back to shock theropy...
Hell Dragon
Reply #9 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:40 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:40 AM
Moderation creates goals and challenges, this leads to better wallpapers, better artists, and ultimately gives the site a better 'reputation' all round.
Mr.Dizney
Reply #10 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:42 AM
Reply #10 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:42 AM
Yes JavaBrain the "rejection" letter reads....
"Dear ******,
Thank you for your recent upload of your (file Name) for WallPapers.
Unfortunately your upload has not met our guidelines and has been rejected.
However we do look forward to your future submissions."
That's more of a EASY let down than a "REJECTION". But when its say that "your upload has not met our guidelines", not you try and find a clear understanding of what those guidelines are you get more wasel words than a car dealers lease.
From what I got out of what "digitalJames" there should be a more clear and understandable "guideline" to which all wallpapers are "graded".
AND as far as SOME of the words used by the "STAFF" of WC, NO one should ever be told that there work is "amatureish"! The level at which the staff and citizens are, should NEVER be compaired. What you consider "amatureish" may be a half days work for someone with LACK OF EXPERIENCE. Glad we had a chance to chat about these things.
Looking forward to challenging myself to met you "GUIDELINIES".
Thanks,
Disgruntle employee #007
(pun intended) Mr. Dizney
"Dear ******,
Thank you for your recent upload of your (file Name) for WallPapers.
Unfortunately your upload has not met our guidelines and has been rejected.
However we do look forward to your future submissions."
That's more of a EASY let down than a "REJECTION". But when its say that "your upload has not met our guidelines", not you try and find a clear understanding of what those guidelines are you get more wasel words than a car dealers lease.
From what I got out of what "digitalJames" there should be a more clear and understandable "guideline" to which all wallpapers are "graded".
AND as far as SOME of the words used by the "STAFF" of WC, NO one should ever be told that there work is "amatureish"! The level at which the staff and citizens are, should NEVER be compaired. What you consider "amatureish" may be a half days work for someone with LACK OF EXPERIENCE. Glad we had a chance to chat about these things.
Looking forward to challenging myself to met you "GUIDELINIES".
Thanks,
Disgruntle employee #007
(pun intended) Mr. Dizney
mormegil
Reply #11 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:46 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, August 23, 2001 11:46 AM
As far as I am concerned whoever is paying for the bandwidth should have the prerogative to screen how it is used. I have had wallpapers moderated back on skinz.org and it didn’t make me happy, but I respected their right to do so. A I will respect wincustomize, and stardock, if they feel it is necessary in the future.
Jafo
Reply #13 Thursday, August 23, 2001 6:10 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, August 23, 2001 6:10 PM
I think it is important to note that the wallpaper section should be seen as a 'completed works' department and not so much as a high-school art class gallery displaying the current exam submissions.
I remember those, and they were horrid affairs, where some people managed to present their work well, and others were just in a hurry to get out and play football instead, and their submissions proved that point.
Anything claimed to be [or looking like] a 'hey I was bored sh**less so I threw this together in 2 minutes' will be out faster than you can say 'reasons for moderation'.
Conversely, 'it's my first go at Bryce....I found some kewl dolphins, what do you think?' will be out almost as quick, accompanied by some suggestions [like....'lose the dolphins'] on ways to improve, where the prime advice is to keep at it and develop artistically some more.
Moderation may need explanation, but a Skin or wall site is not intended strictly as a school for fledgling aspiring artists, where the moderators become surrogate instructors.
Depending on the approach, the moderators would be happy to assist/explain..... up to a point.
'wtf you bastards...you have no right'...will probably be studiously ignored.
As more and more subbmissions show up, there is going to be less time to devote to each....it takes time to view the wall, or download the zip and view them all, compare them with any others by the same artist, and reach a conclusion....bouncing thoughts off other moderators.
An interesting thing to note is that irrespective of your thoughts and opinions of those responsible for this moderation, none of us are young, naive, or inexperienced in this field [digital art & skinning] in particular, and graphics in general....
I remember those, and they were horrid affairs, where some people managed to present their work well, and others were just in a hurry to get out and play football instead, and their submissions proved that point.
Anything claimed to be [or looking like] a 'hey I was bored sh**less so I threw this together in 2 minutes' will be out faster than you can say 'reasons for moderation'.
Conversely, 'it's my first go at Bryce....I found some kewl dolphins, what do you think?' will be out almost as quick, accompanied by some suggestions [like....'lose the dolphins'] on ways to improve, where the prime advice is to keep at it and develop artistically some more.
Moderation may need explanation, but a Skin or wall site is not intended strictly as a school for fledgling aspiring artists, where the moderators become surrogate instructors.
Depending on the approach, the moderators would be happy to assist/explain..... up to a point.
'wtf you bastards...you have no right'...will probably be studiously ignored.
As more and more subbmissions show up, there is going to be less time to devote to each....it takes time to view the wall, or download the zip and view them all, compare them with any others by the same artist, and reach a conclusion....bouncing thoughts off other moderators.
An interesting thing to note is that irrespective of your thoughts and opinions of those responsible for this moderation, none of us are young, naive, or inexperienced in this field [digital art & skinning] in particular, and graphics in general....
Buzz_Hog
Reply #16 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:01 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:01 PM
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again...
Transmutate
Reply #17 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:08 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:08 PM
I'm glad that wincusto is going to 'raise the bar' on the quality of wallpapers that are accepted. I supported it at skinz, and I'll support it here too. It can only mean one thing....better wp's for everyone!!!
...good work admin's
...good work admin's
Buzz_Hog
Reply #18 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:12 PM
Reply #18 Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:12 PM
no, not better papers... just a higher ratio of "better" ones...
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Reply #1 Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:17 AM