Blog: Dying frogs, fanboy wars, and more..
Monday, September 6, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Been playing with an internal build of DesktopX 2.21 over the weekend. It fixes some bugs that we had been running into in our quest to create higher quality widgets and themes. It probably won't affect the end user experience but for those people making widgets and themes, the changes will make their lives easier.
I know I seem obsessed with the whole widget thing lately. That's mainly because I am obsessed with the whole widget thing lately. I don't know what it is, but I just love the idea of being able to create really neat visual things on my desktop that are of my own creation that don't involve hours and hours of work.
Take fancy icon labels for example. I created a DesktopX object that has really fancy text labels under it. It's very flexible and you just right click and clone them and change the image as often as you want and can create a whole desktop of very nice big "super icons" with text labels. Check out the article on that here. I did this in about 5 minutes though. Only 30 or so lines of VB Script and now people can have icons on their desktop with nice icon labels under them.
On the down side, fanboy wars are starting to brew. This is a real bummer because well, it usually means we get beat up a lot. One can trace the whole "WindowBlinds SUX!" stuff back to when msstyles first started coming out. It wasn't enough for some of those users to go with their choice. No, they had to go out and trash WindowBlinds. It's simmered down quite a bit but anyone who's been around can remember what it was like for every WindowBlinds news item or whatever to have a small army of msstyles advocates insisting that WB was crap and that the reason it was so popular was because people were "stupid sheep" (it couldn't possibly have been because it was faster, used less memory and has tons more features but I digress).
So now I fear we're starting to see the same thing in the widget arena. But this time we have an idea what causes this phenomenon: When a product (freeware or not) has no official home base where its most..passionate users can hang out, they tend to end up on community sites. And so they try to turn those community sites into their home base and drive off all others.
That sort of thing led to a recent blow-out on Aqua-Soft. Aqua-Soft is one of the most superbly run net communiteis around. But as we've seen here on WinCustomize even, from time to time the community itself can get out of hand.
I've written previously how much I like the various widget programs. Samurize, Avedesk, Kapsules, and of course DesktopX (and on my Mac I'm a registered user of Konfabulator). Like I said, I'm totally into this stuff. But I worry you're going to see the same sort of nonsense we saw with the msstyles vs. WindowBlinds stuff. Rather than respect the choices people make, some people would go out of their way to attack and harass others for their choices and opinions.
But then again, when I go into the lion's den and talk about these things, I feel like anything I say is going to be distorted into something awful. Here is a rule of thumb: If the website gets less than 1 million unique visitors per month, then someone who makes a living doing software is only on there because they care about the product or service personally. There's no business justification to hang out on some niche site talking shop - especially on labor day. Believe it or not, people who make a living writing software actually do care about their software just as much as the "freeware" author.
But like I said, I'm really into the whole concept of doing cool stuff with your desktop. I think with Longhorn coming that we're just at the beginning of the cool stuff that will become possible. I am hoping all these programs gather followers - a rising tide lifts all boats. But if it becomes a battle of niche programs, they will all remain niche programs.
On a sadder note, my pet frog "Kermit" died yesterday. We had had him for 5 years so we were pretty bummed out. He had had a long life though. He was one of those little African frogs that people (5 years ago) could buy at the mall.
We had him in the original aquarium with his roommate Gary, the snail. Now Gary is alone and we have to figure out a way for him to find..um "food" now that the frog isn't there anymore. That leaves us with just Cuddles (the box turtle I've had for the past 18 years).
So next week we'll be starting to roll out WinCustomize v4. First to our admins/moderators and then slowly on out to WinCustomize subscribers and beyond. Lots of good stuff in there.
Also next week we'll be releasing The Natural Desktop. Imagine taking incredibly cool looking wallpapers, a huge volume of custom sound tracks for outside sounds, and tying them all together with logic that looks at the time of day, weather conditions, and time of year. The screenshots won't do it justice since it's really the overall "experience" (visual, audio, and subtle workings) that make it so cool. But you'll hear more about that this week.
Have fun!
Reply #22 Monday, September 6, 2004 6:43 PM
Now, about this whole thing: just keep doing what you do best, ignoring all the shit - pardon my language - people are throwing at you (like certain members @ Neowin, which b.t.w. are just a bunch of 10 year olds). These people who criticize you and your work are just jealous because they can't do better and/or have failed to produce something that is worth a damn. That's all.
Our best wishes to you and your family,
Sincerely,
MonsterTruck.
Reply #23 Monday, September 6, 2004 6:49 PM
anyway, as i said, i burried the hatchet.
only time will tell who was right, even though AveDesk won`t be developed anymore, which is a shame.
for everyone who wants to get labels and try AveDesk 1.1 now:
http://mpj.tomaatnet.nl/AveDesk11.exe AveDesk 1.1 Installer
http://s92891953.onlinehome.us/unbelvr/AveDesk_Tutorial_Luna.pdf Tutorial
PS If you find this inapropriate Brad, i`ll understand if u delete this post.
Reply #24 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:07 PM

Reply #25 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:09 PM
First of all, Brad, your post about fixing his paragraph, that was excellent..haha. I was thinking about how you'd respond, and between that and your next post..splendid!
Unbeliever: I don't quite understand what you were saying to me, but as I've attempted to learn multiple other languages and ..know..no..other..languages..I understand how hard it is to speak languages other than your native.
The way you posted was interesting..it made it a bit difficult for Brad to actually delete the post. However, I don't see how it could be considered inappropriate, anyway.
Lastly...This whole thing was interesting, but its over now..I don't suggest anyone getting more into it. Or..nothing directed at Unbeliever any more, at least.
Reply #26 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:09 PM
Reply #27 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:20 PM
I think it would be a shame if Andreas stopped developing it.  And Unbeliever, posting links to Avedesk is fine here.  This is WinCustomize. We WANT people to try out this stuff.  I've made numerous news items here promoting Avedesk in the past.
That's what I've been trying to communicate to you guys in the Avedesk camp (and I'm apparently failing miserably at it).  We want you to succeed. We just don't want you guys belittleing all the other programs. Because what will happen is that people will think that they're all junk.
Reply #28 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:22 PM
I'll admit that I've never used AveDesk (and, honestly, probably never will), so I can't and won't say anything bad about it. For all I know, it's a great app. I also haven't been following this argument all over the internet, and can't support/disagree with all of Frogboy's actions, but from what I have seen, you're really acting imature, Unbeliever. I love the whole "I'll try to seem mature and noble by 'burrying the hatchet' and 'swallowing the crap' and 'taking the slap'". This whole thing is just a cry for attention. Also, the whole comment about getting an article in a popular magazine that would bash DesktopX is merely propaganda by a fanboy of a different program.
I just find it really funny that this article warns about the flame wars that will occur and all, and yet one of the first people to post is a fanboy/flamer himself. It's so ironically delicious.
Also, on a side note, just because someone's spelling and grammer isn't perfect is no reason to insult their points of view.
And, on a completely different note, I am awaiting the Natural Desktop. I just knew something like this would be made eventually, what with the release of DX2 and Aquarium Desktop. Keep up the good work!
Reply #29 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:30 PM
I hope that AveDesk does continue to develop.
Also Froggy I read most of your post and the post around them throughout this episode and I am proud to say I couldn't find any wrong in them....

Reply #30 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:42 PM
So does WC4, I can't wait.
Sympathy for the loss a your friend, Brad. Hope the Snail and the Turtle are doing well.
I run DX, WBlinds, ODock+, and IPackager on a machine with onboard graphics with a grand total of 64MB of shared memory for the graphics adapter and all is stable.
I have not tried many other GUI extension programs, but I am a believer in the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Business is hard and no one said it would be any different. We all have to do our best to provide the best product and to promote it in the best way we know.
Stardock's product support seems very strong to me, and that certainly seems to be a factor in the end user's decision of what to buy. I would recommend keeping that "ace in the hole" at all costs.

Reply #31 Monday, September 6, 2004 7:52 PM
You might want to check out the article named "DesktopX &" from September 3rd - currently located on WC homepage and watch the "Supericons 2" video tutorial (if you have Windows Media Player 9 or above).
Brad runs through the designing of the text button (object) and grouping it with a drive icon in the video and is quite clear about setting the script. I think if you follow that one step-by-step, you may have some luck designing a desktop object for your drives (the pause button on WMP is a good thing!).
Not sure where the drive icon from the screenshot above comes from, sorry.
I believe you will have to create a rectangular .png file in your favorite image editing software to create the background (button) object for the tutorial.
Hope this helps.

Reply #32 Monday, September 6, 2004 8:16 PM
Easier yet, I see that Frogboy has uploaded some of the super icons to the DX Objects library for people to download with a bit of explanation on creating clones so people can change to their liking.
Have fun.

Reply #34 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 3:44 AM
I think enough has been said in the responses on the AquaSoft situation now. Hey, I'm British and polite and want everyone to be nice to each other

Hopefully this summary not only outlines my opinion on this but others too:
1) The whole episode has been unfortunate and disappointing to those who genuinely want to contribute positively to the community
2) unbeliever made a point and has now "buried the hatchet". He's entitled to his opinion as is Brad.
3) The fact that Andreas is considering disappearing from the customisation scene to which he has contributed creatly and stopping doing something he "used" to enjoy is disappointing and bad for all the community
4) DesktopX and AveDesk are both good programs in their own right
5) Stardock is not out to destroy anyone.
Now hopefully people can come together, but even if they go separate ways just have fun skinning in which ever direction you go and let other people do the same.
Reply #35 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 5:54 AM
^My take on the current technologies^
From my experience and no one elses points of view. Just posting this here as I'd like to build the community at the site.
Reply #36 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 5:54 AM
^My take on the current technologies^
From my experience and no one elses points of view. Just posting this here as I'd like to build the community at the site.
Reply #37 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 5:57 AM
Thanks.
And sorry to hear about your Frog

Reply #38 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 8:49 AM
Reply #39 Tuesday, September 7, 2004 8:51 AM

As for the argument between the DX & AD camps, personally I'm not getting involved - The two programs along with Samurize & Kapsules all have their stronger & weaker points. It's called being different to each other
But even as a DX user I hope that AveDesk's development will resume in the future - Even as friendly rivalry
the presence of each widget software indirectly boosts the development of the others. And Zero, personally I prefer Miranda IM to GAIM or Trillian
but it's all down to personal preference 
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Reply #21 Monday, September 6, 2004 6:35 PM
I love DX even more now. never tried the other programs but after this and other articles, I might give it a shot. AveDesk sounds cool. Samerize sounds hard...